Engine Failure... I think

[car46999]

I agree with everyone else

Fight it...

I had a friend that had his oil and trans oil changed at walmart.
They failed to tighten both plugs. He made it about 20 miles.
Walmart bought him a new engine and transmission.

If Mazda changed your oil, Mazda is responsible.
If you have to, get a lawyer.
But first go to corporate. Write a letter to some one at Mazda.
Tell the service manager you want to talk to his boss, then his boss, and so on.

Good luck

 

[Sveivo]

Fight it...

I had a friend that had his oil and trans oil changed at walmart.
They failed to tighten both plugs. He made it about 20 miles.
Walmart bought him a new engine and transmission.

If Mazda changed your oil, Mazda is responsible.
If you have to, get a lawyer.
But first go to corporate. Write a letter to some one at Mazda.
Tell the service manager you want to talk to his boss, then his boss, and so on.

Good luck

How is the easiest and most important procedure so often completely improperly and carelessly done? Stories like this one are countless...

 

[MazdaSpeeder]

This thread makes me sick.

 

[LBV]

How is the easiest and most important procedure so often completely improperly and carelessly done? Stories like this one are countless...

Exactly and why I prefer to work on my own car as much as I can as I've seen and heard some horrific things that just make you shake your head.

Problem is, you're in a catch-22 situation because you do the work yourself and the dealer will try and waive the warranty if something goes wrong even if no fault of yours ... you get it done at the dealer and they screw it up and they still try to waive the warranty. (argh)

 

[s-retire]

Exactly and why I prefer to work on my own car as much as I can as I've seen and heard some horrific things that just make you shake your head.

Problem is, you're in a catch-22 situation because you do the work yourself and the dealer will try and waive the warranty if something goes wrong even if no fault of yours ... you get it done at the dealer and they screw it up and they still try to waive the warranty. (argh)

I certianly makes you wonder about the reason for paying the high price for dealer service or the value of any recommendation Mazda makes in the owner's manual.

Does anyone have a reason why the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light would not have provided some advanced notice of the impending doom.

 

[LBV]

Does anyone have a reason why the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light would not have provided some advanced notice of the impending doom.

For sure, an idiot light on the dash should have come on to say your oil level was either low or the pressure was low ... that's a big question right there you ask and, who knows, maybe there is a Mazda issue there??

Are you sure the wife would have seen it? Not saying this is the case, but I've seen women driving right up close to the dash in an almost vertical position that they wouldn't even be able to see the dash from the position they're in.

 

[s-retire]

Good Question

Are you sure the wife would have seen it? Not saying this is the case, but I've seen women driving right up close to the dash in an almost vertical position that they wouldn't even be able to see the dash from the position they're in.

Yes, I'm sure that she would have seen it. She does not sit too close to the wheel to prevent the dash gauges or light from being in her field of vision.

She was driving over a freeway mountain pass, in and out of cruise control, watching the dash gauges for speed, RPM and engine temp. At this point she was also watching the fuel level and planning for her next fuel stop.

Last, she when the car started to vibrate she looked down at the gauges for indication of any problem. Seeing none, she thought she thought the problem was a low tire. (Like I said before, shes not a car nut) As she moved to the right to tend to the emergency, she actually saw the oil pressure light illuminate, immediately followed be the check engine light.

 

[F430TECH]

well the oil may have come out of the hole in the engine block of course, but I doubt all six quarts, probably just enough to get the light to illuminate but this was already after the CON-ROD had broken...

They drained whatever was left I promise you. This is pretty amazing, and almost makes me regret buying a car from Mazda.

Do not for any reason let them give the car back to you...you need to get angry man...very angry...demand a new engine and transmission, tell them you want it or you want your money back or involve a lawyer end of story.

If you do get a lawyer though, piece of advice, dont point him towards anything we say on the forums because the other lawyer will no doubt tear it apart in court as hearsay...

You are owed a new car, no boudt adout it !

 

[john blutarski]

I'm going to be sick to my stomach. I cannot believe how many posts I've read over the years about incompetent mechanics ESPECIALLY DEALER MECHANICS! Stories like this is why I only do my own work unless a lift is required and even then I'll be standing there watching and/or inspecting the finished product as best I can.

 

[car46999]

well the oil may have come out of the hole in the engine block of course, but I doubt all six quarts, probably just enough to get the light to illuminate but this was already after the CON-ROD had broken...

We cannot be sure what happened first, the hole or the drain plug. But my money is that the plug came out, the majority of the oil then drained out the drain hole. The rod then broke a hole in the block.
If the dealer is telling the truth on the drain plug, there was no oil for them to drain.

And I pretty sure the "idiot light" only comes on when there is no oil pressure (less than the set value). Not when you are a quart or two low. Next time you change your oil, look at the difference in time it takes for the light to go off. (this is because the oil pump looses its prime)
Where as a normal start, it goes off quicker.

So if the oil was draining out, it would be a pretty quick death just a described by the driver.

 

[s-retire]

If the dealer is telling the truth on the drain plug, there was no oil for them to drain.

And I pretty sure the "idiot light" only comes on when there is no oil pressure (less than the set value).

So if the oil was draining out, it would be a pretty quick death just a described by the driver.

First point, I see no reason to question the original inspecting dealer's observation or to suggest that they might have tampered with the car by removing the plug. It is from that point on, where I question the support of that dealer and Mazda NAO provided to get the car back on the road.

A missing drain plug does not prove to anyones satisfaction (other than Mazda NAO) that the chain of events is as they claim. It is a good theory and with a little more effort could be proven well enough to have the Authorized Selling/Servicing Dealer turn a claim over to their insurance. To date Mazda NAO has simply denied all responsibility and dragged their feet.

Next point: What is the preset value for the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light to come on? Shouldnt it illuminate before the motor goes POP? If not, why is it there?

If enough oil drained out of the pan to cause engine failure, how quick should the theorized chain of events come about? No Oil No Oil Pressure No Lube to Moving Parts Part Start to Heat Up (somewhere in there the valve train and moving parts start to make noise) and BOOM! along with the resulting fire.

Yes, it is understood that the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light is not a Low Oil Level Warning Light. But in my way of thinking a low oil pressure warning light should come on before a low oil pressure condition starts to cause damage to internal engine components.

It definitely didnt happen that way.

 

[Lee456]

I sympathize greatly with your situation, and it scares the hell out of me since I plan to have this car a long time and the story here doesn't say much for the warrenty support.

Although I hate to disagree with you, it is almost impossible to believe that you had the oil changed, drove the car for 1300 miles, didn't have a puddle of oil on the garage floor from the loose plug, and then the plug unscrewed itself and flew out while driving down the freeway. Earlier in this thread one of the members told about getting his oil changed, stopping at the mall, and seeing a puddle under his car. That's what happens if the plug is loose. It has to turn several complete turns to come out and if it is loose by even 1/2 turn it will leak.

As for your question about the oil pressure light, I don't know the specs for the Mazda light but I know how oil pumps work and have seen the effects of low oil on an oil pressure gauge. The gauge (or light) will see full pressure until the oil gets so low that the pump is sucking air then it will see no pressure. I've watched the gauge in a car go from normal pressure to 0 when the driver went around a sharp corner. The driver was newly divorced and asked me why her car made a funny noise when she went around corners. I had her take me for a ride. It was running fine, but when she would turn the lifters would click to beat hell because the oil pressure fell to zero. The car was over 2 quarts low on oil. I love her dearly, but she's not much of a mechanic.

I don't believe the problem is with the light. Oil pumps produce full pressure as long as there is oil at the pickup but when it drops below that point there is no pressure.

Good luck with getting this fixed. It is disgusting that it has been turned into your problem. If the work was done at a Mazda dealer, the plug shouldn't matter, it should be a warrenty repair.

 

[s-retire]

Although I hate to disagree with you, it is almost impossible to believe that you had the oil changed, drove the car for 1300 miles, didn't have a puddle of oil on the garage floor from the loose plug, and then the plug unscrewed itself and flew out while driving down the freeway. Earlier in this thread one of the members told about getting his oil changed, stopping at the mall, and seeing a puddle under his car. That's what happens if the plug is loose. It has to turn several complete turns to come out and if it is loose by even 1/2 turn it will leak.

I don't believe the problem is with the light. Oil pumps produce full pressure as long as there is oil at the pickup but when it drops below that point there is no pressure.

Thanks,

Unfortunately, I cant speak to oil spots on the garage floor. The car only sat at home one day after the oil was changed. No signs of leak that night. Then the wife took the car on a trip from central California to Portland, OR. It was on the return trip that the engine failed. Before she left, I checked all the fluids just to be sure. All was good.

While she was gone, the car was parked in different spots on the street and in public parking lots. She tells me that she saw nothing unusual. So what you say could be true the bolt may have been dripping, but she didnt notice anything. The Oregon Fuel Delivery Technicians also didnt report leaking oil. Then the drive home, Im guessing 400+ miles that day, 220 miles or so from the last fuel fill, 110 miles or so from the last driver rest before the engine blew.

Im confused about what you are trying to say about the Low Oil Pressure Light. Assuming the chain of events purported by Mazda NAO is correct, my thought is: The drain plug falls out, the oil in the pan drains out, NO OIL, NO OIL PRESSURE, no lube to the bearings and the moving parts start to heat up, then the motor fails.

If there is oil pressure doesnt it stand to reason that there is oil? This is a modern motor with pressurized lubrication, not an old fashioned splash and dip system.

When should the light come on? Im thinking early enough to prevent major engine damage.

 

[Lee456]

You are absolutely right. The light should come on the instant there is no pressure. It should take a period of time with no pressure to ruin the engine. I don't know how long that would be, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 2 minutes? Someone with a serious engineering background would have an idea.

I still can't imagine what basis they have to deny a warrenty repair, or possibly paying for it themselves due to their negligence in leaving the plug loose. There is no way it should be your problem, but I'm sure you know that. Have you though about going to the attorney generals office? They helped me up in Seattle when a car dealer ripped me off. Sold me a car that they took back under the lemon law then tried to get me to sign the form saying I was aware of that a month later. I would imagine the attorney generals office in California is pretty aggressive.

 

[08cosmic3]

I'm going to be sick to my stomach. I cannot believe how many posts I've read over the years about incompetent mechanics ESPECIALLY DEALER MECHANICS! Stories like this is why I only do my own work unless a lift is required and even then I'll be standing there watching and/or inspecting the finished product as best I can.

What he said.

I'm no mechanic but with all the how-to's on the forums it's not hard to learn for yourself how to service the car. It will take you longer to get it done but you will feel good knowing that you can take care of your car yourself and NO ONE cares more about your car than YOU. My car has only been back to the dealer once for the fuel pump reflash. I learned a long time ago that if the mechanics can do it, then so can I. Learn everything you can about your car from the forums and seek out the how-to's and advise on these boards. Buy a service manual if you have to. I don't trust the dealerships whom have over charged and lied to me many times

I document everthing done to my car. I take pictures ever oil change showing pics of the mileage and receipts for the oil and filter. I take pics of the o rings, washer and of the old filter before I throw it away.

 

[BrianFiebig]

Its unfortunate, but I know from LONG experience how LAZY shop mechs can be. Old car was a 2003 Taurus SES Sport. Took it to dealership for oil change. Got in, CEL and Oil lights on, walked right back in and tore service manager very large new asshole (I used to work as a salesman at that dealership, so I knew I would get away with putting a foot into the door). Put WRONG weight oil in AND 3 quarts too low. Got that squared away, never had a problem with it until it shat out half its exhaust 500 miles from home.
Sister In Laws 2000 Nissan Sentra. Failed inspection due to worn brakes. Father In Law doesnt want to pay 500+ for new brakes, goes to Autozone and gets thier Duralast lifetime warrentee parts. I install, while i had the car jacked up, I changed out the oil. The freaking drain plug was CROSS THREADED and was probably reinstalled with an impact hammer, all the points were rounded off. I consider myself DAMN lucky I didnt shatter the oil pan taking the thing off (bought a ratchet-headed wrench 1MM smaller then the spec plug, bashed it on with an hammer, then slid a 36" length of aluminum fence pipe over it, and cranked). Called the shop that did the work in Newport News, VA, asked about the impact hammer, and the 17 year old who answered the phone said "Yeah, we use an impact hammer on oil plugs. Who doesn't". Got the pads off, and they were practically new. Put new pads on, drove back to inspection center, threw the old pads on the counter, wound up a massive ass chewing. Manager came out, took one look, fired the inspection guy on the spot, gave me cash to cover the pads, put new inspection sticker on himself.
With the Speed, I take it to a Goodyear shop down the street from me, because one of the techs there has a 07 speed, and is the ONLY person I permit to touch my car. When I took my car to get the evap purge valve replaced, I didnt even let the lot monkeys drive the car, I personally drove it into the shop, on and off the lift, and out again. Service manager and my sales guy know that Im a gear head, love my car, and am known for my temper and skills at delivering a chewing.(direct)

 

[Abilor]

I don't know how long that would be, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 2 minutes? Someone with a serious engineering background would have an idea.

78.4 seconds, approximately.


Seriously though, there's too many variables. The bottom line is it should have come on before catastrophic failure. That's what ******* safe checks are for, from an engineering POV. s-retire is being SCREWED, esp. since only mazda-endorsed shops are touching his ride.

 

[NCZ13]

you guys are blaming mazda, when you should be blaming the dealership. Dealerships are not an extension of the company. They are independent franchises (owned privately) that have the rights to sell those cars.

So all this about I cant believe i bought a mazda, or typical mazda bulls*** etc is misplaced. the dealership doesnt call mazda NA, they call their regional rep. Theres a long chain of people before it actually reaches anywhere corporate.

Dealerships do still get paid for warranty work. Not as much as they would a normal heavy line job, but they still get money. The service advisors work off commission, and good customer service (bonuses for meeting goals) and rely on good customer feedback. The techs get paid per job, and if are doing shoddy work (getting frequent complaints about work, the paperwork will say who worked on teh car) they could lose their job.

So as much as I want to lay the sketchyness on the dealership, its hard knowing that they dont make money like this. Their main goal is to please the customer...

I sympathize for your situation. If teh dealership ****** it up, they should cover it no questions asked.

 

[Lee456]

s-retire is being SCREWED, esp. since only mazda-endorsed shops are touching his ride.

That pretty much sums it up and I agree 100%. In fact, I can't see how anyone could disagree with that conclusion.

 

[s-retire]

I believe you have it wrong on many points.

you guys are blaming mazda, when you should be blaming the dealership.

So all this about I cant believe i bought a mazda, or typical mazda bulls*** etc is misplaced. the dealership doesnt call mazda NA, they call their regional rep. Theres a long chain of people before it actually reaches anywhere corporate.

So as much as I want to lay the sketchyness on the dealership, its hard knowing that they dont make money like this. Their main goal is to please the customer...

I sympathize for your situation. If teh dealership ****** it up, they should cover it no questions asked.

I called Mazda NAO on day two (almost 3 weeks ago) and opened a case after I was told the DSM denied my warranty claim and would not call me after I requested to speak to him. Mazda corporate is involved.

The Selling/Servicing Dealer (no longer with Mazda) has tried to be cooperative and has said that they will contact their insurance if it can be proven that the alleged chain of events is in fact the cause. It was the servicing dealers suggestion that the car be inspected at a now Authorized Service Dealer. The car has sat there, waiting for the DSM to come and tell the technician how to remove the BS and a couple of rod caps. Mazda is dragging this out unnecessarily.

The DSM even told the Service Manager there to quote me $220 to inspect the top end. For what reason?

All that ignores the fact that the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light failed to give my wife, the driver, any indication there was a problem. That is made even more disconcerting given that with all this the car caught fire while she was still sitting behind the wheel.

The Low Oil Pressure Light failure is a manufacturer defect! No question about that in my mind.

You want to tell me my anger is misplaced again?