End all Protege Transmission Thread.

TurfBurn · Dec 31, 2004

Focus said:
OK Now I get it. Was hoping to get info on strengthening.

Here you go man. Pictures is worth 1000 words

TurfBurn · Dec 31, 2004

twilightprotege said:
what the difference between the G5M and the G15M?

That is the million dollar question... there is also a G25 out there somewhere used in some Mazda but I'm not sure what... and based off of that came the G35 according to some net info I've seen, and that is used the in the 6i's and the Mazda 3's.

TurfBurn · Dec 31, 2004

From the Protege FAQ:
G5M-R:
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width=400 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=80>Used with

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=80>BP-ZE (MY90-91)

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">BP-ZE (<BIG>∞</BIG> Infini)

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Type

</TD><TD vAlign=top>5MT, FWD

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">5MT, FWD

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>1st gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.307:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">3.307:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>2nd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.833:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">1.833:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>3rd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.310:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">1.310:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>4th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.030:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">0.970:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>5th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.795:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">0.755:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Final drive

</TD><TD vAlign=top>4.105:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">4.388:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Reverse

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.166:1

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">3.166:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Differential

</TD><TD vAlign=top>open

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">viscous LSD

</TD></TR><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">Shift mechanism

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">remote, rod actuation

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">remote, rod actuation</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

and

G15M-R
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width=400 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="50%">Used with

</TD><TD vAlign=top>FS-DE, FS-DET

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Type

</TD><TD vAlign=top>5MT, FWD

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>1st gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.307:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>2nd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.842:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>3rd gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>1.310:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>4th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.970:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>5th gear

</TD><TD vAlign=top>0.755:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Final Drive

</TD><TD vAlign=top>4.105:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Reverse

</TD><TD vAlign=top>3.166:1

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Differential

</TD><TD vAlign=top>open, 2 way LSD in FS-DET

</TD></TR><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">Shift mechanism

</TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">remote, rod actuation

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

twilightprotege · Dec 31, 2004

how could the g5m be used on the mp3 then? you've got me a bit worried coz i ordered a fly and clutch from rr-racing and should be arriving shortly, and if there are different trans in the us-spec cars, chances are mine is different too!

where are the stamps on the trans?

TurfBurn · Dec 31, 2004

All the G series transmissions are essentially swappable from my understanding... just different bell housing to mate to the right motors. Your flywheel should be golden regardless.

I think the stamp was just behind the motor mount. I'll go look when I get back out in the garage today (an hour or so)

PaulMP3 · Jan 1, 2005

the g5m is a piece.

I have had my fair share of tranny problems, all when stock. Since they fixed it, it has been holding strong. Not the smoothest though.

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

The stamp is actually a sticker that is on the back side of the transmission housing itself. It's a white sticker about 2" x 2.5" and should have your tranny code on there.

I've had no problems with my G5M. It's less notchy than the one in my brother's Mazdaspeed. So dunno! But obviously transmissions are one of the points of "concern" for all of us on here. Hopefully I'll have new gear options for us soonish, and Beau I guess is working on billet forks... so between those two things the trannies should be plenty beefy.

low_psi · Jan 1, 2005

Thanks for the info, you broke a lot of hearts.

How much do you think a shop would charge to finish welding a MSP LSD?

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

I still don't completely rule out that they made some improvement possibly, but they aren't anything big or obvious. There are new part numbers... they may have simply upgraded tooling or upgraded quality control to get things to be better. But in general if someone needs a new tranny it won't hurt to try and get one from 2003 or later!

As far as the MSP LSD welding like I had done. It will cost less than 200 bucks. Mine cost me about 160 bucks from a GT Porsche Racing company. Just needs to be tig welded by someone who is pretty good. Then you'll be all set. It is also very important that they clean everything thoroughly!

Later,

Steve

BlkZoomZoom · Jan 1, 2005

They have made improvements. The synchros are improved, the shift forks are improved. If you don't believe it then explain why I haven't had to tear any down after middle of 02' build date. Also explain when we re-build the 02' and older trannies we install the new part number parts and they never come back (especially the synchros).
Just because you can't see the imporvements means nothing (no offense, I didn't really see the differences either.)

cable43 · Jan 1, 2005

BlkZoomZoom, do you know if you can buy just the LSD from the factory? or do you have to find one used?

BlkZoomZoom · Jan 1, 2005

You can buy them seperate. They used to be cheap. (around 350$). The price has jumped to around 650$.

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

I already stated that the 1-2 fork is different. Keep in mind I HAVE the parts. I'm saying the differences in the others is negligible.

Also as far as replacing the parts... that is just plane statistical distribution. Weaknesses and manufacturing defects will fall out in the first 12-24 months... then after that you start getting outliers. So if they had any kind of manufacturing defect it completely accounts for what you are seeing. I've worked in reliability and I'm a mechanical engineer, so I'm used to seeing those kind of failure trends.

But further to the point, a lot of the failures were from the fact that people shifted poorly. There is NO reason to snap the actuating end of the shift fork unless you are shifting it poorly. Should it be stronger? Obviously it should... but is it really the fault of the part... no.

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

Here is the difference in the 1-2 fork. Also the collar that goes around the control shaft the fork is on is also taller/longer. But those are the only differences there. the 3-4 fork showed no dimensional differences.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19134

BlkZoomZoom · Jan 1, 2005

Trust me were still doing plenty of 3rd gear shifting problems lol. Whats up with the blue stuff.

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

BlkZoomZoom said:
You can buy them seperate. They used to be cheap. (around 350$). The price has jumped to around 650$.

call Mazdaspeed of Houston (www.mazdaformance.com) or Mazda Stuff as they offer good discounts (even cheaper then mazdamotorsports).

You need the LSD and the following:

2 axles seals
2 bearings
Speedo gear (if you have a non-abs vehicle)

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

BlkZoomZoom said:
Trust me were still doing plenty of 3rd gear shifting problems lol. Whats up with the blue stuff.

Shockproof tranmsission fluid. Helped a LOT.

As far as the 3rd gear thing that fits with what I can see from the parts as well.

The synchros is the big thing... what the heck is different with them if anything. there is no visual difference and all that really matters on them is the shoulder and the dog teeth on them... no differences there that I could see... so

hence my skepticism on those parts. I know the part numbers are different, and you are seeing a different failure rate that could be a manufacturing thing, or a design thing.... so yeah... it's still a question.

BlkZoomZoom · Jan 1, 2005

man that stuff looks like it smells nasty.

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

BlkZoomZoom said:
man that stuff looks like it smells nasty.

smells better than stock fluid for sure! But yeah it's nasty.. it clings to everything... that tranny sat for a couple days empty and was still that covered.

updated my post above too.

TurfBurn · Jan 1, 2005

I'm trying to find my part numbers lists... I have the full set of numbers you need for the LSD changeover around somewhere...

End all Protege Transmission Thread.

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