E-Manage powered Mazdaspeed!

[Chojin]

mazdamp3_18 -

While tuning our MP3-T on the dyno, we discovered that even at WOT the PCM stays in Closed Loop operation until 4,200 RPM and then goes into Open Loop operation. We installed the ESC1 to get rid of this problem.

While testing the MSP on the dyno, at WOT the PCM goes into Open Loop operation at 3,300 RPM.

The problem with tuning only WOT is that you neglect the rest of the driving range. So, you will get great performance while at WOT, but have poor performance the rest of the time. If you're a 1/4 mile person this may be great, otherwise you car will not be a happy camper.

Later.

-Shawn

 

[igdrasil]

Chojin

How the unit makes the PCM switch to open loop?

I also sent you an email, im looking for some stuff.

 

[Chojin]

igdrasil -

Check out http://www.splitsec.com for more info. on their ESC1.

I'm working on your email.

Later.

-Shawn

 

[perfworks]

If this is true then you are the first company to do so (as far as I know). Keep us updated...a simple PCM reflash or a easily installable/uninstallable chip has the potential to be a great thing for Protege owners, and a big moneymaker for you (seeing as how you'd be the only one with such a product available).

This is somewhat true. Some will say as they may but here it goes. The PCM is Fords' Period. It is propriatory. The circuitry and the programming. IT IS ILLEGAL for them to reprogram the ecu without getting permision from Ford. WHY. Because not only does it not belong to anyone other than ford it has to meet CARB. You cant just REFLASH whenever the customers decides he wants more power. It needs to be done in a systematic way as to comply with CARB and the EPA.
Now as far as reading the ECU. This has been done way before anyone here. I have said several times before here and elsewhere that the ECU on the MSP and the other proteges are completely different in their programming. The drive cycles are not consistent with one another. Never mind the fact that the ECU adaptive and learning strategy will be different for EVERY car. No matter MSP or not.
We have read the Protge ECU two years ago. The problem lies in another item i wont disclose here on this thread to give away what I and Andy have been working on. It is easy to LOG and Read preset maps in the ecu. It is another to physically have ACCESS to them. We do have the technology to reflash. We do have the technology to burn chips. We can do this tommorow morning if we wanted to. We dont have to rely on anyone. The company i deal with is literally a phone call away.
But we dont want to go this route. Once we find that the legalities are in order we will.
As for now, i have mentioned here many times and on other threads that closed loop operation in this PCM is hell to manipulate. UNLESS you know how to work out of it. ex. Chojins' setup. There are many ways to get the vehicle into open loop. Anyway i dont want to ramble on. There are some great things that we and some other companys are working on to "help" the situation along.
Please look for our products very soon after the holidays.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask away. I will do my best to answer all of them for you.

EDIT: let me say one more thing. I know this post was not directed toward my company i just felt compeled to add my 2 1/2 cents to the conversation.

 

[perfworks]

Everyone -

Here's my experience using the Split Second PSC1-015 piggy-back fuel controller with our MP3-T (using 370 cc/min injectors and a Vortech 6:1 fmu):

(The PSC1-015 reads vehicle RPM (y-axis) and uses an internal MAP sensor to read vac/boost (x-axis). Based on these two inputs, the tuner uses a laptop with the Split Second R4 Software to modify the MAF signal to the PCM to get the desired A/F ratio.)

1. The PCM will accept changes made to the MAF signal at idle (vacuum) up to a certain amount before a MIL occurs.

2. The PCM will negate any changes made to the MAF signal during Closed Loop operation.

3. The PCM will accept changes made to the MAF signal during Open Loop operation up to a certain amount before a MIL occurs.

We are using a Split Second ESC1 to put the PCM into Open Loop operation as soon as boost is detected so we can fine tune the fuel map while in boost.

Hope this helps.

Later.

-Shawn

One of the most truethfull posts i have read in a long time.

 

[perfworks]

so i should only tune for wot?

NEVER. You can tune for WOT but not only.
You can and will be under boost while at partial throttle closed loop operation. I dont know about you but I dont usually go everywhere with the gas mashed to the floor the whole ride
I will give you a call this afternoon again.

 

[RAAZ227]

PRETTY!!!

 

[mazdamp3_18]

so should i just forget about the emanage and uninstall it...

it seems like it is pretty much useless....

 

[jersey_emt]

Nick (perfworks)..quick ? for you...if it is illegal to modify the stock ECU, how are the VW/Audi 1.8T ECU reflashes legal?

 

[Chojin]

mazdamp3_18 -

Give Dan Ponze a call at Godspeed Inc. (http://www.godspeedinc.com). He stated in another thread that he's installed the e-manage on a MP3 and a MSP and got them to work with no problems.

Or you can PM him at username: Guru.

-Shawn

 

[perfworks]

Nick (perfworks)..quick ? for you...if it is illegal to modify the stock ECU, how are the VW/Audi 1.8T ECU reflashes legal?

Wait hold on a second. I am talking about Ford right now on this particular application. On other applications like the mustangs that get flashed for upgrades when adding a supercharger, already have an exemption order in place from CARB and the Federal government. They have been authorized to do so.
Let me get some other things straight. Many companys here have the equipment to burn chips and read ecu's. They have reflash equipment. But they have only been authorized to flash the vehicles to stock specs. Now whether or not that "particular" company wants to take part in reflashing ecu's for the protege community will depend on their commitment and relationship with Ford.
At the present time Ford has not and will not allow reprogramming of the protege ecu for aftermarket high performance purposes. That doesnt mean it cant be done. I dont think anyone will do this yet and for a while.
As far as VW is concerned, some companys have EO numbers for the work. All of europe has been reflashing for many years now. Restrictions there are a little different. Plus if they are actually legal they wouldn't void warrantys like they are. The vehicle was built and tuned specifically to first and foremost to pass emmisions . When the aftermarket provides reflashing software and equpiment to shops the vehicle is no longer compliant unless tested and approved by CARB. Does that mean that there wont be any reflashing done? NO it will be just like those who use standalone EMS on the street. Not federally legal but for the most part unregulated and accepted.

 

[Emode]

. There are some great things that we and some other companys are working on to "help" the situation along.
Please look for our products very soon after the holidays.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask away. I will do my best to answer all of them for you.

as always i greatly anticipate anything that perfworks is working on. I cant wait to hear more details.

 

[MSPDAVE125]

as always i greatly anticipate anything that perfworks is working on. I cant wait to hear more details.

I'm very interested! I've got a nice big garage now and tools too!

So I'm just about ready to start on this car again.

PERFWORKS---- Keep us posted.

 

[turboge]

Just make sure to start a new thread about your own products, this one has already gone much off topic. Thanks.

E-manage and Profec E-01 are coming out this weekend so if anyone is interested in the combo PM me.

 

[MSPDAVE125]

Just make sure to start a new thread about your own products, this one has already gone much off topic. Thanks.

E-manage and Profec E-01 are coming out this weekend so if anyone is interested in the combo PM me.

Sorry....

 

[igdrasil]

and...what about the mazdaspeed ecu? is it tuned by ford? mazda? or who?

 

[70]

and...what about the mazdaspeed ecu? is it tuned by ford? mazda? or who?

I thought it was done by Visteon. Which used to be a part of Ford.

 

[perfworks]

Just make sure to start a new thread about your own products, this one has already gone much off topic. Thanks.

E-manage and Profec E-01 are coming out this weekend so if anyone is interested in the combo PM me.

Sorry Braden it was not my intention to jack the thread.

 

[perfworks]

I thought it was done by Visteon. Which used to be a part of Ford.

Visteon is responsable for some of the electronics on all the proteges, like the BS "alarm" The tuning was done by Calloway.

 

[mazdamp3_18]

hey nick...

do you think the split second esc-1 would work on my car to kick it into open loop?


i dont generate boost so how would i get the unit to get my pcm to go to open loop...


should i just give up and get stand alone?