Drive train loss

[Puccio]

Ok, well, did some talking with friends. And I can only say one thing about our car's stock whol drive train setup. It sucks. On an automatic car, normal power loss is approximately 20%. On a manuel car though, it should only be about 5%. Mazda really screwed us over on this one. Didn't someone dyno their car and only get 114 with the MHP intake? Well, 4 from the intake sounds about right. I'm starting to wonder where they get thier numbers for crankshaft hp...

 

[APEXistud]

On a manual car though, it should only be about 5%. Mazda really screwed us over on this one.

Correction, the average drivetrain loss ranges anywhere from 11.3-18%. Some cars have lost as much as 20%. But if 5% was the norm then we'd all be very happy people.

 

[Racer 5]

this is just heresay~~ but I heard the WRX Automatic has like 30% loss?? Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

[Puccio]

Again, this is only what I've heard over the past few days. Still, 20% is a bit high, come on, that's 30 horses we're not having. 5 -10 more would be even nice.

 

[APEXistud]

Typically, all-wheel drive vehicles have about 22-27% drivetrain loss. 227hp at the fly, Import Tuner baseline run on their project WRX was 168.whp which is a little over 25%. Import Tuner article.. After cruising through the I-Club and checking out some of the other owners baseline runs, you will see that is about the average.

 

[70]

The SE-R Spec V is worse...

How much did the SE-R Spec V lose in the drive train?? More than the MP3 that's for sure.

About 175 drop to 140 at wheels? SE-R is the one to complain about.

Yes, the MP3 is right about 18-20% drive train loss. It has stock dyno numbers of 113.3 horsepower and 110.5 lb-ft of torque, per GRM. That is about 19.1% loss on horsepower.

 

[Coolhand]

Yes, the MP3 is right about 18-20% drive train loss. It has stock dyno numbers of 113.3 horsepower and 110.5 lb-ft of torque, per GRM

Who got those numbers StuttersC? Grassroots Motorsports?
Actually someone dynoed the MP3 with just a CAI on this board and got about 110hp. I dynoed mine with my mods and got 121hp. I have to agree with Puccio that our drivetrain loss is quite large. IMO we got screwed!!! But at least we got a unique car in the deal!

 

[70]

Who got those numbers StuttersC? Grassroots Motorsports?
Actually someone dynoed the MP3 with just a CAI on this board and got about 110hp. I dynoed mine with my mods and got 121hp. I have to agree with Puccio that our drivetrain loss is quite large. IMO we got screwed!!! But at least we got a unique car in the deal!

Coolhand:

Yes, Grassroots Motorsports dyno'ed a stock MP3 for the last issue when they did the article for the Pocket Rockets. Those are the numbers they got on a dyno out in California. I think they used the dyno at Nuespeed's shop for all the cars tested. I'd have to reread the article to say for sure.

But those numbers are the ones they got. And as far as the MHP intake goes, that pipe (3") is to big for the car anyway. It also doesn't help that it has a tight spot where the air meter is. So it would make sense that there really is no power gain from it, and even (in some cases) a power loss. MHP never dyno'ed their pipe and they had the nerve to make the outrageous claim of ten added horsepower or something like that. I know the MHP pipe looks nice, but as a performance piece I am staying away from it.

I forgot what mods you had, but some tuning needs to be invovled. You aren't going to get the best results just slapping on parts that are supposed to make power.

I thought you had the cams in there. If the timing is all that was changed to make the extra ten horsepower on the MP3, I don't think way advanced timing is good with longer duration and higher lift.

As far as the drivetrain loss being large, it's average. No raw deal, just average.

I suppose since I brought up the SE-R Spec V, I should also mention the VW 1.8T Golf. They are supposed to make 180 at the flywheel and in the same GRM test they made about 170 at the wheels (If I remember correctly). I seriously doubt that VW has that kind of drivetrain effciency.

I probably haven't changed your mind or anything, I'm just saying how I see it.

 

[APEXistud]

The reason why the MHP isn't all it's cracked up to be is because of the large pipe diameter. It's a bit excessive if you ask me. Injen took a better approach by using a little larger than stock pipe diameter which inturn doesn't affect the readings the sensor in the intake pipe takes.

 

[02ProtegeES]

drivetrain loss is usually 15% for manual and 20% for auto. The reason the WRX has such high drivetrain loss is because of AWD. You are comparing apples to oranges.