Do the DSM'ers have a pt.

[XodusPhD]

I was just on the DSM orlando message board and in one of the non-dsm sections they werent exactly "slamming" the msp per se but were saying that they werent all that impressed (typical statement from someone who is jealous they overpaid for an N/A ugly eclipse - i love the 90-99, but after 2k, come on thats just ugly and slow!). That comment didnt bother me, cause i know how impressed I AM with the car.

The comment that got me thinking was the fact that they said the engine is not meant to handle large amounts of boost on the MSP, b/c its the weak protege engine with a turbo slapped on.

Is this true, or has the engine and/or fuel system been at least slightly enhanced to handle the stock and potential power that can be derived from the powerplant?

Someone with knowledge tell me that they are wrong and i will go hack their site and replace every members profile with a naked pic of rosie o' donnell! HAHA!!

Peace!

 

[ZoomingMSP]

the motor may handle boost pretty well but from what I have heard the tranny will cook itself when you get the hp up around the 300 mark. If you want any more horsepower out of the msp than that you probably should have bought the sti or the evo. Just my .02

 

[XodusPhD]

hmmm

I'm not sure about what the HP requirements would be, but as long as i can get to around high 13's low 14's, i am happy..do you think i would be ok tranny and engine wise with that type of power?

 

[brennan]

Yes your tranny should be fine with that goal. See I like the challenge of tuning a car, that is why I wouldn't go out and buy a already 300hp car. All you have to do is upgrade the tranny how hard is that.

 

[jred321]

they're right, the engine wasn't meant for high boost without rebuilding w/ forged stuff. it is just a protege engine with a turbo. and in dsm land, large amounts of boost is >25psi, so there aren't many engines that can handle that. the ecu is calibrated differently for the fuel needs of the turbo, however poorly that is done.

 

[Striker187]

should be. there's a couple members here that run low 14s/hi 13s on the stock motor and tranny. though no telling how long the motor will last. the internals are still the stock protege ones. according to mazda, the rods are the weak point as they will start to bend at 225 whp. but people have gone past this with no problems yet so the engine is proving stronger than previously thought. the block is also iron instead of aluminum so no worries about boost there.

 

[Tex]

OK, jeez I hate sounding like a noob, but what the hell is DSM? I searched on Google, and came up with lots of car, and many other, DSM sites, but none had a definition for the acronym. Digital Signal Management? Nah. Down Spoke Manifold? Not likely. Down Stream Management? Hmmm. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders? Well, could apply to some here, buuuutt....don't think so. Help?

 

[mdaj]

DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors which was a joint venture between Chrystler and Mitsubishi.

Diamond is Misutbishi and Star is Chrystler.

Also when people refer to DSM's they are talking about 1st Gen Talons, 1st and 2nd Gen Eclipses and I think thats it.

 

[fkmp5]

DSM = diamond star motors ..

 

[fkmp5]

i think the conquest is DSM also, right?

check out www.dsm.org (Club DSM)

 

[Tex]

Wow that was fast! Thanks guys.

 

[jred321]

DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors which was a joint venture between Chrystler and Mitsubishi.

Diamond is Misutbishi and Star is Chrystler.

Also when people refer to DSM's they are talking about 1st Gen Talons, 1st and 2nd Gen Eclipses and I think thats it.

1st and 2nd gen talons, 1st and 2nd gen eclipses, 1st gen plymouth lasers
all the same within their respective generations.
although it is true that there are plenty of other dsm cars (3kgt, stealth, conquest, starion, plus more), people mean one of these when they say dsm

 

[mdaj]

Great. I knew I was missing some.

 

[jersey_emt]

My old car was a Chrysler Cirrus...with a Mitsu 2.5L V-6. It *could* be considered a DSM...i think. Not that I care.

 

[YP5 Toronto]

The DSM guys have had the benefit of a very strong engine out of the gate.

The 1st GEN platform is the strongest engine made for a production car. Many 2nd gens swap out for a 1st gen motor becuase they can handle SOOOOO MUCH boost.

So from their perspective they are correct. Many of the low 1/4 mile guys have done everything to the engine EXCEPT swap out internals. These DSMers have a world of options and can swap in HUGE...I mine HUGE turbos to acheive some crazy numbers.

if you ever wanted a drag car...a DSM platform is a definate HOME TUNNER choice!

And unfortunatetly in comparison, the FS motor was NOT designed with BOOST in mind. This does not mean it can't be boosted to a certain point. So they are correct in their statement to a certain degree.

250 WHP is the target...WITH PROPER Air/Fuel management. Anything past that you will need to call in reinforcements.

Not a flame....but it scares me when I venture into the MSP section and hear people simply adding a Boost Controller and turning up the PSI without understanding the dynamics behind it.

Follow the work of Turboge.....he is headed in the correct direction for taking the MSP to the next level.

 

[BlueMP5Dave]

This debate has been around for a long time. In my opinion it is all in how you tune and treat your vechicle. This engine can take horsepower if you don't beat the crap out of it. The tranny can take punishment but not at a constant. If you drive it hard under boost constantly because you think you have something to prove to the world, it will fail as will any vechicle. If you take care of your engine and do weekly maintenance(ie checking fluids) and inspections(ie clamps and oil lines). When you mod a car you have to expect to change your maintenance habits. Changing oil on turbo cars early if you have alot of track days is a good idea.
If you plan on running this engine past rated horsepower. I suggest you run a piggyback that can tune the fuel/air curve. Unless your like Joe and have experience with manual tuning. I think a piggyback with a laptop is the best way to get the most out of a MSP since the stock computer sucks and is unpredictable. Oh and high quality synthetic fluids are a must in my opinion. Just my .02

 

[Flat Black]

The DSM guys have had the benefit of a very strong engine out of the gate.

The 1st GEN platform is the strongest engine made for a production car. Many 2nd gens swap out for a 1st gen motor becuase they can handle SOOOOO MUCH boost.

So from their perspective they are correct. Many of the low 1/4 mile guys have done everything to the engine EXCEPT swap out internals. These DSMers have a world of options and can swap in HUGE...I mine HUGE turbos to acheive some crazy numbers.

if you ever wanted a drag car...a DSM platform is a definate HOME TUNNER choice!

And unfortunatetly in comparison, the FS motor was NOT designed with BOOST in mind. This does not mean it can't be boosted to a certain point. So they are correct in their statement to a certain degree.

250 WHP is the target...WITH PROPER Air/Fuel management. Anything past that you will need to call in reinforcements.

Not a flame....but it scares me when I venture into the MSP section and hear people simply adding a Boost Controller and turning up the PSI without understanding the dynamics behind it.

Follow the work of Turboge.....he is headed in the correct direction for taking the MSP to the next level.

Actually, the 12a rotary was the most reliable engine ever made. Much so more than any DSM motor, winning countless edurance races in every category around the world.

If you break down typical early DSM motors, as far as the actual size of the internal components, there isnt to much of a difference.
The real offset for any FS engine isnt the internals under boost, its an inadequate fuel system. Just about everything for the TB to the injections could be replaced.

The ECU, thats another story, it hopelessly pathetic.

 

[traitorhound]

avengers are dsm's too

 

[JeRNuT]

DSM stands for Diamond Star Motors which was a joint venture between Chrystler and Mitsubishi.

Diamond is Misutbishi and Star is Chrystler.

Also when people refer to DSM's they are talking about 1st Gen Talons, 1st and 2nd Gen Eclipses and I think thats it.

don't forget Plymouth Lasers

 

[nrcooled]

The real offset for any FS engine isnt the internals under boost, its an inadequate fuel system. Just about everything for the TB to the injections could be replaced.

The ECU, thats another story, it hopelessly pathetic.

I couldn't agree more. The Air/Fuel system is the definate weak spot on this car. Tiny injectors+small TB+inadequate ECU= no major power.
The first major venture would be to increase injector size to at least 370cc and bump up the TB size to at least 80mm. FMIC and 3" all the way back will actually allow MSP owners to use their redline.

All managed with a AFC of some sorts to keep everything in check. I say screw a warrantee!