While under factory warranty, all TSB'S are covered, especially if it involves the engine and transmission and the modules that run them. Out of warranty it is hit or miss getting them applied for free.
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Dealer charging for PCM/TCM updates?
- Thread starter TheBlackCat
- Start date
Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
Thanks. Gonna ask.While under factory warranty, all TSB'S are covered, especially if it involves the engine and transmission and the modules that run them. Out of warranty it is hit or miss getting them applied for free.
Yeah, and speak to the service manager/director and not the service advisor/writer. They are all idiots and don't care.Thanks. Gonna ask.
Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
Yeah. I think I got screwed. Next time I am emailing the issues directly to Mazda. The paperwork doesn't seem to contain any Mazda warranty claim #'s. So now I can't even show I had the vehicle in before the warranty expired if the issue is still there. After all the business(cars purchased and work done) that I gave the multi-brand dealership over a lifetime, this could be the last time.Yeah, and speak to the service manager/director and not the service advisor/writer. They are all idiots and don't care.
They basically told me all the issues were module software related and charged for the updates.
Old enough to know better but still bamboozled.
Screwed on any B2B issues, but at least CPO power train warranty is good for another 3 years. Got the 7 year/100 k PT warranty.
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Jack, I'm not sure if you know this but being a CPO Mazda, the b2b warranty is for an additional 12 months/12k miles on top of the 3/36 b2b. Are you still within 48 months/48k miles? Also, the issue you told them should have been documented on the internal R/O paperwork and should be listed as " customer states xxxxxxx on the final paperwork invoice you signed with payment along with the work performed. Additionally, any work that is performed gets a 12 month, 12k mile warranty standard. Lastly, do you know for sure that they actually updated the software to a newer version? You are entitled to a printout from their scan tool that shows the previous software version and updated version that was installed on your vehicle.
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Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
Nope. They kept all the paperwork they had me sign and only gave me copies of the paid invoice. This only reminds me why I stay far away from dealer service departments.Jack, I'm not sure if you know this but being a CPO Mazda, the b2b warranty is for an additional 12 months/12k miles on top of the 3/36 b2b. Are you still within 48 months/48k miles? Also, the issue you told them should have been documented on the internal R/O paperwork and should be listed as " customer states xxxxxxx on the final paperwork invoice you signed with payment along with the work performed. Additionally, any work that is performed gets a 12 month, 12k mile warranty standard. Lastly, do you know for sure that they actually updated the software to a newer version? You are entitled to a printout from their scan tool that shows the previous software version and updated version that was installed on your vehicle.
Also, the way they explained was the Mazda was over it's 3 year warranty so even though it only had under 20,000 miles, my B2B warranty would be 1 year or 12000 miles from sale date. So my B2B expires expires at 30000 miles before it reaches the 4 year mark. I'm gonna check Mazda corporate and ask them give me an expiry date.
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They lied or were clueless. The factory bumper to bumper warranty goes from the original in-service date of whomever purchased the vehicle when it was new, not the amount of miles on the vehicle or how old it was when it was first purchased. The CPO extends this factory warranty and additional 12 months or 12,000 miles whichever comes first so you have a total of 48 months or 48,000 miles from the original in service date. If the in-service date is not available or cannot be looked up then you can use the build date on the driver side door jamb but most likely the in-service date is on any paperwork for any service or repair with that vehicle VIN number at any dealership and can be looked up easily. Can you look on the driver's door jamb and tell us the manufacturer date? How many miles are on the vehicle when you purchased it? Look on your paperwork and tell us on the top of the invoice what the in-service date says. If for a strange reason it is not there you can always call Mazda and they will provide it to you if you provide them the VIN number of the vehicle. The factory warranty gets automatically transferred to any new owner and is valid at any dealership regardless of how many people or owners it has had before.Nope. They kept all the paperwork they had me sign and only gave me copies of the paid invoice. This only reminds me why I stay far away from dealer service departments.
Also, the way they explained was the Mazda was over it's 3 year warranty so even though it only had under 20,000 miles, my B2B warranty would be 1 year or 12000 miles from sale date. So my B2B expires expires at 30000 miles before it reaches the 4 year mark. I'm gonna check Mazda corporate and ask them give me an expiry date.
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Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
Thanks . Am checking with mazda today. Dealership had explained that the factory warranty had expired before cpo vehicle was sold so the cpo warranty was 1 year/12,000 miles from purchase. My 4 years isn't in question. The mileage portion is as they are saying mileage expires at approx. 30,000 even though the original would have given me 36 k. I could use the additional mileage to see if more issues happen in the next few months.They lied or were clueless. The factory bumper to bumper warranty goes from the original in-service date of whomever purchased the vehicle when it was new, not the amount of miles on the vehicle or how old it was when it was first purchased. The CPO extends this factory warranty and additional 12 months or 12,000 miles whichever comes first so you have a total of 48 months or 48,000 miles from the original in service date. If the in-service date is not available or cannot be looked up then you can use the build date on the driver side door jamb but most likely the in-service date is on any paperwork for any service or repair with that vehicle VIN number at any dealership and can be looked up easily. Can you look on the driver's door jamb and tell us the manufacturer date? How many miles are on the vehicle when you purchased it? Look on your paperwork and tell us on the top of the invoice what the in-service date says. If for a strange reason it is not there you can always call Mazda and they will provide it to you if you provide them the VIN number of the vehicle. The factory warranty gets automatically transferred to any new owner and is valid at any dealership regardless of how many people or owners it has had before.
Thanks . Am checking with mazda today. Dealership had explained that the factory warranty had expired before cpo vehicle was sold so the cpo warranty was 1 year/12,000 miles from purchase. My 4 years isn't in question. The mileage portion is as they are saying mileage expires at approx. 30,000 even though the original would have given me 36 k. I could use the additional mileage to see if more issues happen in the next few months.
Taken from Mazda website:
"Each Mazda Certified Pre-Owned vehicle is covered by any remaining portion of its original 3-year/36,000-mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty. The CPO Limited Vehicle Warranty provides coverage for another 12-Months or up to 12,000-Miles, with no deductible on covered repairs. For Mazda CPO vehicles that are no longer covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, the CPO Limited Vehicle Warranty takes effect at time of purchase"
You need to confirm original in service date to see if the vehicle was in or out of factory warranty when you made the purchase.
You mentioned the car had 18k miles when purchased - at least that is what I am reading since you mentioned the dealer said the warranty is up at 30k. When was it purchased? If it was 3yrs after the in service date then the 18k miles are in fact gone and you would be relying on the 12mth/12k extended warranty provided by the CPO (for bumper to bumper issues - infotainment, HVAC, etc). In addition you have the 5yr/60k power train warranty which certainly should cover the TSB updates (and you car is still well within 5yr/60k from what you are saying). It also should cover the transmission issues you mentioned.
Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
Yeah B2B is probably close to expired.You mentioned the car had 18k miles when purchased - at least that is what I am reading since you mentioned the dealer said the warranty is up at 30k. When was it purchased? If it was 3yrs after the in service date then the 18k miles are in fact gone and you would be relying on the 12mth/12k extended warranty provided by the CPO (for bumper to bumper issues - infotainment, HVAC, etc). In addition you have the 5yr/60k power train warranty which certainly should cover the TSB updates (and you car is still well within 5yr/60k from what you are saying). It also should cover the transmission issues you mentioned.
The cpo power train is good for 7 years or
100,000 miles. Luckily it's a 7 year to see if the cylinder head crack problem appears.
1
181962
There should be no guesswork involved.Yeah B2B is probably close to expired.
The cpo power train is good for 7 years or
100,000 miles. Luckily it's a 7 year to see if the cylinder head crack problem appears.
The "in service date" should be printed on the dealer's invoice/receipt that you got for the software updates. I see it in the second row of boxes at the top of a Mazda dealer oil change invoice/receipt. My Toyota receipts show it as well--they call it "delivery date". This is evidently industry SOP. Barring that, if you got a CarFax the original titling date should be shown there.
The "in service date" is the date the original owner bought the vehicle. The manufacture date on the door label has nothing to do with warranty terms. Your CPO limited warranty clocks to 4 years / 48,000 from that in service date, whichever comes first, if that needs to be said. The exception is if the original 3 / 36,000 had already expired when you bought it. In that case you get 12 / 12000 miles from your purchase date as @Tchman2016 illustrated.
By the way, any service performed in or out of warranty is guaranteed for 12 / 12,000, another common industry practice. So, for example, if you had a service done 6 months before the warranty expired it is covered for 6 months past warranty expiration, assuming you don't exceed 12,000 miles in the interim. If you paid out-of-pocket, then it is 12 / 12,000 from the date of service regardless of manufacturer warranty terms.
I don't know what all you had on your laundry list of problems, but as far as the shifting issue is concerned (been there, done that under warranty per a TSB) I can see where you might have had a problem. I wasn't in the room, but If you asked them to throw the software cannon at it, updating all the modules, that's not how troubleshooting is done, right? You present the specific problem with whatever support you can provide and take it from there. Depending on what else is on your laundry list and the attitude going in responsiveness might vary.
Taking the focused approach, if you went in with the following TSB, to take one example that has been discussed in several other threads, or any other like TSB that fits the situation, I would expect a free diagnosis and update of the software if the limited warranty is in force and if the problem can be recreated. "Verify customer concern" is another one of those SOPs as the first troubleshooting step. The following TSB, for example, states it is covered under the limited warranty, not the drive train warranty.
file:///C:/Users/jdelf/Documents/Auto/2020%20Mazda%20CX-5%20Touring%20Reference/MC-10185048-0001.pdf
If all else fails, I would ask for a tech to join me for a ride to recreate it and if you can't recreate it you can be expected to be SOL.
1
181962
By the way, with the water under the bridge unless Mazda corporate intervenes, the most important thing is whether the software updates resolved the shifting issues. You didn't say. And how about the other things on the list?
As for the "evil" dealer service departments, keep in mind they are franchises. Local management matters a lot. Some will be better than others. My experiences with them have been positive except on a couple of occasions over four decades.
As for the "evil" dealer service departments, keep in mind they are franchises. Local management matters a lot. Some will be better than others. My experiences with them have been positive except on a couple of occasions over four decades.
Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
There should be no guesswork involved.
The "in service date" should be printed on the dealer's invoice/receipt that you got for the software updates. I see it in the second row of boxes at the top of a Mazda dealer oil change invoice/receipt. My Toyota receipts show it as well--they call it "delivery date". This is evidently industry SOP. Barring that, if you got a CarFax the original titling date should be shown there.
The "in service date" is the date the original owner bought the vehicle. The manufacture date on the door label has nothing to do with warranty terms. Your CPO limited warranty clocks to 4 years / 48,000 from that in service date, whichever comes first, if that needs to be said. The exception is if the original 3 / 36,000 had already expired when you bought it. In that case you get 12 / 12000 miles from your purchase date as @Tchman2016 illustrated.
By the way, any service performed in or out of warranty is guaranteed for 12 / 12,000, another common industry practice. So, for example, if you had a service done 6 months before the warranty expired it is covered for 6 months past warranty expiration, assuming you don't exceed 12,000 miles in the interim. If you paid out-of-pocket, then it is 12 / 12,000 from the date of service regardless of manufacturer warranty terms.
I don't know what all you had on your laundry list of problems, but as far as the shifting issue is concerned (been there, done that under warranty per a TSB) I can see where you might have had a problem. I wasn't in the room, but If you asked them to throw the software cannon at it, updating all the modules, that's not how troubleshooting is done, right? You present the specific problem with whatever support you can provide and take it from there. Depending on what else is on your laundry list and the attitude going in responsiveness might vary.
Taking the focused approach, if you went in with the following TSB, to take one example that has been discussed in several other threads, or any other like TSB that fits the situation, I would expect a free diagnosis and update of the software if the limited warranty is in force and if the problem can be recreated. "Verify customer concern" is another one of those SOPs as the first troubleshooting step. The following TSB, for example, states it is covered under the limited warranty, not the drive train warranty.
file:///C:/Users/jdelf/Documents/Auto/2020%20Mazda%20CX-5%20Touring%20Reference/MC-10185048-0001.pdf
If all else fails, I would ask for a tech to join me for a ride to recreate it and if you can't recreate it you can be expecte
Nope. Only has the mileage into shop date.There should be no guesswork involved.
The "in service date" should be printed on the dealer's invoice/receipt that you got for the software updates. I see it in the second row of boxes at the top of a Mazda dealer oil change invoice/receipt. My Toyota receipts show it as well--they call it "delivery date". This is evidently industry SOP. Barring that, if you got a CarFax the original titling date should be shown there.
The "in service date" is the date the original owner bought the vehicle. The manufacture date on the door label has nothing to do with warranty terms. Your CPO limited warranty clocks to 4 years / 48,000 from that in service date, whichever comes first, if that needs to be said. The exception is if the original 3 / 36,000 had already expired when you bought it. In that case you get 12 / 12000 miles from your purchase date as @Tchman2016 illustrated.
By the way, any service performed in or out of warranty is guaranteed for 12 / 12,000, another common industry practice. So, for example, if you had a service done 6 months before the warranty expired it is covered for 6 months past warranty expiration, assuming you don't exceed 12,000 miles in the interim. If you paid out-of-pocket, then it is 12 / 12,000 from the date of service regardless of manufacturer warranty terms.
I don't know what all you had on your laundry list of problems, but as far as the shifting issue is concerned (been there, done that under warranty per a TSB) I can see where you might have had a problem. I wasn't in the room, but If you asked them to throw the software cannon at it, updating all the modules, that's not how troubleshooting is done, right? You present the specific problem with whatever support you can provide and take it from there. Depending on what else is on your laundry list and the attitude going in responsiveness might vary.
Taking the focused approach, if you went in with the following TSB, to take one example that has been discussed in several other threads, or any other like TSB that fits the situation, I would expect a free diagnosis and update of the software if the limited warranty is in force and if the problem can be recreated. "Verify customer concern" is another one of those SOPs as the first troubleshooting step. The following TSB, for example, states it is covered under the limited warranty, not the drive train warranty.
file:///C:/Users/jdelf/Documents/Auto/2020%20Mazda%20CX-5%20Touring%20Reference/MC-10185048-0001.pdf
If all else fails, I would ask for a tech to join me for a ride to recreate it and if you can't recreate it you can be expected to be SOL.
No warranty in service dates/mileage, etc. It doesn't even appear they tried to open any of these issues as warranty issues even though the B2B was still in effect. And I do find the 1st dealer sold date on the Carfax. Thanks.
The transmission was sometimes holding back and jerking instead of shifting into 2nd/3rd.
And sometimes it would take alot longer than normal to shift into 2nd.
I didn't quote him a TSB although I know the TSB is out there.
Tech said it drove fine for him but it could be the TCM and PCM modules , said the selling dealership should have updated them before they sold the car but they didn't and that not covered under warranty and that I had to pay to update them.
Same thing for the radio malfunction. Said had to go update the connect control module. At this point I'm letting Mazda Cc handle it and will post the outcome.
And it appears the update may have solved the transmission delayed shifting issues but need to drive more mileage to confirm.
Jeezuz, you've got to take the bull by the horns and do some investigative research to be well informed if you want the matter to be resolved in your favor. Call the service or parts dept at any dealer and give them your VIN and they can pull up the in service date if you don't want to call the dealer that you just paid. Real simple. Then you know where you stand. The dealer who just scammed you and didn't provide any paperwork is absolutely abnormal and you need to get a copy immediately. Something is very wrong here.
1
181962
I'm still not getting whether you were under warranty or not so It's hard to guess how to proceed exactly. Good luck.Nope. Only has the mileage into shop date.
No warranty in service dates/mileage, etc. It doesn't even appear they tried to open any of these issues as warranty issues even though the B2B was still in effect. And I do find the 1st dealer sold date on the Carfax. Thanks.
The transmission was sometimes holding back and jerking instead of shifting into 2nd/3rd.
And sometimes it would take alot longer than normal to shift into 2nd.
I didn't quote him a TSB although I know the TSB is out there.
Tech said it drove fine for him but it could be the TCM and PCM modules , said the selling dealership should have updated them before they sold the car but they didn't and that not covered under warranty and that I had to pay to update them.
Same thing for the radio malfunction. Said had to go update the connect control module. At this point I'm letting Mazda Cc handle it and will post the outcome.
And it appears the update may have solved the transmission delayed shifting issues but need to drive more mileage to confirm.
Jack Rabbit
Banned
- :
- 18 Mazda CX5 AW
Yes it was still under the 12000 mile extended cpo B2B warranty when serviced. But it will run out soon. And the power train is good for another 3 years.I'm still not getting whether you were under warranty or not so It's hard to guess how to proceed exactly. Good luck.
I'm really scratching my head here with this info and the disparities, so for that reason, I'm out!Yes it was still under the 12000 mile extended cpo B2B warranty when serviced. But it will run out soon. And the power train is good for another 3 years.
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