Custom Performance Engineering's complete SPEED6 tuning solution
- Thread starter www.cp-e.com
- Start date
www.cp-e.com
Member
atoy74 said:
We're working on dyno results, but we've been having shceduling conflicts lately. We need three particular people to be at the dyno, and getting everyone there at an agreed time has been a pain. But our tester went on a business trip, and we've agreed to do the dyno when he returns. So we should have some numbers for everyone soon.
We're also ready to release the piggyback, but we're finishing the final touches on the html. We need to get everything up on our website so people can order it. Once we do I'll post here and let everyone know that they're available. So really, we just need a few days to get everything in order.
Stay tuned! (2thumbs)
Jordan
BTW: We designed, prototyped, and produce all our Standbacks in house, so I thought some here might find it interesting to see how we (four guys) plan on producing hundreds of piggybacks. This video was taken the other night during a Standback production run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjxh5VX30kg
We use this machine called a pick-n-place, which was fully restored and programmed by our electrical engineer. You place the bare electrical boards on the work surface, hit "go," and the machine starts placing all the board components. We later transfer the boards to an oven which activates the solder paste. It's a pretty trick system!
Last edited:
Karma_hunden
Member
- :
- '04 protege, then '05 mazda 3i, then '06 MS6 GT, now '10 RX8 R3
nice.
www.cp-e.com said:
Thanks for the vid clip, I've seen a few of those machines before. For how slow it moves, depending on how many parts are on the board, it could take quite a while to make the hundreds of them you are planning on producing!
The moment I thought this something else occurred to me... Seeing as half of the fun we have is the tweaking and upgrading (not just driving a modded car), why not provide another way to offer this? I'd love to buy this when it finally comes out but I know $700 will prevent me for at least a little while; it'd be great if you made this available as a kit we could assemble ourselves for a bit less $$$. This may come across as a bit bizarre but I probably would enjoy building and installing this more than I would enjoy installing a ready-made device. This may be because I'm a "double 'E' " but, if the board isn't too complex, there may be a market for something like that.
I guess not everyone has a hot-air soldering iron for surface mount devices but I figure you made it surface mount for automation and not for size constraints. A through hole board might be possible then?
(Queque the laughing and pointing at the EE Geek)
Oh, and you're not looking for test engineers are you
?www.cp-e.com
Member
EE-Geek said:Thanks for the vid clip, I've seen a few of those machines before. For how slow it moves, depending on how many parts are on the board, it could take quite a while to make the hundreds of them you are planning on producing!
The moment I thought this something else occurred to me... Seeing as half of the fun we have is the tweaking and upgrading (not just driving a modded car), why not provide another way to offer this? I'd love to buy this when it finally comes out but I know $700 will prevent me for at least a little while; it'd be great if you made this available as a kit we could assemble ourselves for a bit less $$$. This may come across as a bit bizarre but I probably would enjoy building and installing this more than I would enjoy installing a ready-made device. This may be because I'm a "double 'E' " but, if the board isn't too complex, there may be a market for something like that.
I guess not everyone has a hot-air soldering iron for surface mount devices but I figure you made it surface mount for automation and not for size constraints. A through hole board might be possible then?
(Queque the laughing and pointing at the EE Geek)
Oh, and you're not looking for test engineers are you
Actually, very astute observations
We actually just got the machine up and running a few weeks ago, so we still have it on its slowest setting. It can go faster, but it puts premature wear on the machine and volume is low at the moment, so we keep the speed down. When production ramps up, we'll abuse the machine a little more, hah.
I spoke with our EE today and presented him with your question. First off, he was really pleased to see another EE taking interest in our products! He said he would consider sending the parts to people as a DIY kit, but there are two hurdles that I should mention. First, one of the processors we use has hundres of pins, and to properly align the chip on the board by hand, you would need a microscope and a lot of patience. You may have both, but I wanted to mention it anyway.
The deal breaker was that if one of our customers assembles the board incorrectly and it fries the ECU, then they may come back to us and blame the problem on our design. Our EE made a little test rig which verifies the operation of all the boards before they go out. If we could offer a similar device to our customers so that they may try the board on a test rig before they plug it into their cars, then your suggestion may be possible. But right now I think we're going to stick with our current plan. But I like your idea, and I'm going to brign it up again to the guys down the line.
And as far as being a test engineer, we'd invite you down here if you didn't live across the country from us!
ianknight said:
Very soon! I'm confident that we'll have the Standback up on the website this week. I'm actually writing the product description between forum postings
Jordan
OfourTHREEfive
Member
Lol, im not sure theres too many people that can do that. Ten points for you though (naughty)EE-Geek said:Thanks for the vid clip, I've seen a few of those machines before. For how slow it moves, depending on how many parts are on the board, it could take quite a while to make the hundreds of them you are planning on producing!
The moment I thought this something else occurred to me... Seeing as half of the fun we have is the tweaking and upgrading (not just driving a modded car), why not provide another way to offer this? I'd love to buy this when it finally comes out but I know $700 will prevent me for at least a little while; it'd be great if you made this available as a kit we could assemble ourselves for a bit less $$$. This may come across as a bit bizarre but I probably would enjoy building and installing this more than I would enjoy installing a ready-made device. This may be because I'm a "double 'E' " but, if the board isn't too complex, there may be a market for something like that.
I guess not everyone has a hot-air soldering iron for surface mount devices but I figure you made it surface mount for automation and not for size constraints. A through hole board might be possible then?
(Queque the laughing and pointing at the EE Geek)
Oh, and you're not looking for test engineers are you
I know your not supposed to list the details as of now, but will this piggyback include a 2-step launch control? Thanks.
Also, what about timing? I dont know if the ign timing is a concern on this car and knock is a problem, but did you run into any problems when testing?
RevLimitLaunch
Member
- :
- 06 MS6/03.5 MSP
will the cpe tuner read the wideband afr that comes stock on the ms6? and how will it be read and diagnosed?
ps. sorry if this is a double post of someone elses, but i didn't see anyone else post this.
ps. sorry if this is a double post of someone elses, but i didn't see anyone else post this.
www.cp-e.com
Member
RevLimitLaunch said:
Unfortunately it can't, and I'm sorry to say that I doubt any tuner in the near future will be able to either. I, like many others, were under the assumption that you could just tap a wire on the WBO2, sense a voltage, and convert the signal to indicate an air/fuel ratio. The problem is that unlike narrowband O2's, wideband O2's use current to indicate the air/fuel ratio. You measure current because the sensor is basically a narrowband O2 with an ion pump attached to it. As oxygen in the mixture increases, the current going to the ion pump decreases, and the opposite is true for a rich mixture.
This is a problem because you can't sense the current within a circuit without disrupting the circuit itself. In other words, the feedback loop attached to the ion pump would be skewed, and the readings would no longer be valid once you start altering the circuit. So there is a real hurdle there.
Secondly, even if you're slick enough to sense the current to the ion pump without disrupting the circuit, you still need to make sense of the output, and how the feedback loop is controlling the pump. One may expect the sensor output with respect to air/fuel ratio to be linear, but that's almost never the case. And the signal is also probably pulse-width modulated, which makes the output even more confusing.
So it is possible, but the task isn't striaghtforward by any means. You're much better of just buying an aftermarket wideband while we try to make more sense of this car. Since our Standback will only accept sensor signals from our wideband (which is unfortauntely unavailable at the moment) we'll be offering an analog hub which will accept signals from any analog sensor. The neat thing is that it'll integrate the datalogs into one file. But you can go crazy and get sensors to log things like suspension travel, acceleration, exhaust gas temperature, the uses are endless, which makes the hub a pretty neat addition.
Jordan
RevLimitLaunch
Member
- :
- 06 MS6/03.5 MSP
well thanks for clarifying that. having an egt reading though would be an awesome help for tuning though either way.
www.cp-e.com
Member
ianknight said:
It should be any day now. We're trying to get a few units built before we release the tuner officially so the wait once people order isn't as long.
RevLimitLaunch said:
Sure thing! Yeah, the Standback is great for the casual user, but if you're really into getting everything out of your car, the added analog hub is a great addition. If you have the sensor, then it'll log just about anything you can dream up.
Jordan
RevLimitLaunch
Member
- :
- 06 MS6/03.5 MSP
www.cp-e.com said:
awesome awesome, i wont ask when it'll be released lol, but will it pnp to the cpe piggyback? and how much you think about, rough?
www.cp-e.com
Member
RevLimitLaunch said:
Yep, it will plug directly into the Standback, and it'll cost somewhere between $100 and $200 bucks
Jordan
RevLimitLaunch
Member
- :
- 06 MS6/03.5 MSP
sounds like an addition ill def be getting to an otherwise already astounding sounding module.
it'll jus tap into existing sensors correct? and im guessing for egt it won't attach to o2 sensor, but rather a probe you'd need to get?
it'll jus tap into existing sensors correct? and im guessing for egt it won't attach to o2 sensor, but rather a probe you'd need to get?
www.cp-e.com
Member
RevLimitLaunch said:
Yup, you've got the right idea. Basically, if there's a sensor on the car that uses an analog signal then you can hook it up and log the output. So if you wanted to measure EGT for instance, you need to buy a probe, install it, and hook the leads up to our hub. Then you can datalog the EGT's output signal just like the other stock sensors that the Standback already monitors.
Jordan
