Custom Performance Engineering's complete SPEED6 tuning solution

MODS: Sponsorhip fee has been paid via paypal 1/24/07 @ 11:56am


Custom Performance Engineering has been anxiously awaiting sponsorship status on Mazdas247 for some time now. We've had a lot of great successes in the past few months and we wanted to share some of our latest developments with the community.

We are currently completing the development of our full tuning solution for the SPEED6. Our unit is a piggyback air/fuel, timing and boost controller with datalogging capabilities. The MSRP for a non-PnP unit is $600, or $635 with two pre-loaded base maps. It should be available for pre-order in the next couple weeks.

We recently wanted to demonstrate the capabilities of our piggyback, so we installed it onto a SPEED6 with a turbo-back exhaust and cold air inatake. We also wanted to see what we could learn about the factory ECU. Here is what we found...



Throttle Position and Boost Pressure

We decided to put the piggyback on Seoulfuls (Brians) SPEED6 so we could get a better idea of what the car is doing with timing, the throttle plate, the wastegate, and so on. Brians SPEED6 had a turbo-back and an intake installed at the time of testing.

Whats interesting is that the SPEED6s throttle plate does a similar dance as the SPEED3s at wide open throttle. The difference is that the SPEED6s ECU doesnt create any appreciable performance limitations like the SPEED3s ECU does. The SPEED3 uses the throttle plate as a power output governor, which was likely implemented to reduce the amount of torque steer and wheel spin in the lower gears. Since the SPEED6 doesnt have the same traction or torque steer issues, it isnt clear what the purpose of the throttle plate actuation is during wide-open throttle. Theory dictates that in order get the most out of an engine, the volumetric efficiency should be as high as possible to reduce pumping losses. The fact that the SPEED6 tapers its throttle opening towards redline and reduces boost to some degree goes against convention, and likely has another purpose. The good news however, is that the throttle plate in the SPEED6 doesnt seem to limit peak boost like it does in the SPEED3. Here is a chart of the boost pressure versus the throttle position at WOT. Take note of the peak voltage of the throttle sensor, and the boost pressure (we dialed it in for 15psi in this case)

136933.jpg


Notice how the throttle plate is NEVER wide open (wide open would indicate about 4.7-volts). Not even close. Also, as the rpms begin to climb, so does the throttle position. One may argue that this slow increase in the throttle position is to increase intake air velocity as rpms climb, a la the manifold runner control, but notice that the turbo is already at full bore pushing 15psi. At about 5500rpm the fun begins to end and the throttle starts shutting things down.

Whats interesting in this next chart is that we dialed in 19psi of boost to see how the car reacted. Is the turbo capable of holding 19psi to redline? How is the throttle plate going to affect this?

136934.jpg


Again, take notice of the throttle position. You can see how it ramps up quickly between 2300-2700rpm, and then the slope is decreased as soon as peak boost is achieved. This implies that the throttle control is somehow tied to the boost pressure. We also quickly realized that the turbo was not capable of holding 19psi to redline, so we stopped the run short to avoid over spinning the turbo. It isnt clear from the chart, but the turbo maintained 19psi until about 4000rpm and then started to taper off down to 17psi. We know we ran out of turbo (as opposed to the throttle limiting boost) since the throttle angle is still increasing. Also, notice how the throttle angle is MUCH higher than the angle during the 15psi run in the first chart.

PID Boost Control

Our piggyback differs from some of the other engine management systems in the way it controls boost, or more specifically the wastegate solenoid. The wastegate is controlled by a solenoid which is tied to the ECU. The ECU commands the solenoid to open or close the wastegate depending upon how much boost is requested. Other tuners seem to use a boost coefficient to control boost, which can get tricky. Our boost controller uses a PID (proportional-integral-derivative) feedback loop to monitor and control the boost pressure. This is significant because instead of using some factor with no feedback to control boost, you can demand a certain value, say, 16psi and the feedback loop will control the wastegate solenoid until the map sensor sees 16psi. It really is an incredibly sophisticated system, and Ill briefly explain how PID control works. Alternatively, you can search Wikipedia for a great explanation as well.

A PID feedback loop uses calculus to control a process without human intervention. In other words, using a setpoint value, the PID control calculates how far some value is from the desired setpoint, and even tries to guess at the next value in the process.

The proportion part of the loop calculates the error from the setpoint in percent. For example, if the setpoint is a value of ten, and the current value is 8, then the proportional error is 20%. This helps give the feedback loop some idea of how far off from the setpoint it is.

The integral part of the loop provides an indication of past error. In other words, it finds the integral of the proportional error and sums this error up over time. This also helps indicate if the error is above or below the setpoint value.

Finally, the derivative part of the feedback loop tries to determine where the process is headed. For example, if you look at one of the boost charts above, you can see the slope of the curve is very high to begin with, but once the ECU finds its desired boost setpoint, the slope goes to zero. If the slope is zero, then the boost pressure isnt climbing. If the slope is negative, then the boost is dropping. By incorporating this into the control loop, the system has some idea of the direction of the process its controlling.

A graph of the control loop is shown below. You can see how each aspect of the PID control reacts to Lou setting the boost level to 15psi.

136935.jpg


If the PID control was ideal, then the P portion of the controller would go to zero immediately. This would indicate that there is no error, and youve hit your setpoint exactly. The integral term should be a flat line once it reaches the desired setpoint. Any slope to the integral line indicates that error is being generated. Finally, the derivative term indicates the direction of the process. Since we want to keep the boost at a certain value, the PID control loop constantly overshoots and undershoots the desired boost point. This is normal, but the amplitude of the oscillation gives an indication as to how much control the PID feedback loop has over the process. The lower the oscillation, the better the PID control.

The best part of all of this is that you can fine-tune how much weight each term (proportion, integral and derivative) have on the process control by changing the PID coefficients. We provide a PID coefficient to start with, but you can control the PID coefficients if youd like to get a better control over boost for your particular setup. But how good did the feedback loop control the boost in this particular case?

136940.jpg


This is a chart with the wastegate position versus the boost pressure, and was set for 15psi. You can see that the wastegate is always being tweaked to try to find the setpoint value. Interestingly, the wastegate is never fully opened OR closed! Even at idle, the wastegate is open to some degree. And the wastegate is never fully open to the 255 value because you can create secondary magnetic fields in the solenoid which can inadvertently keep the wastegate open permanently. But, you can see that the boost control is pretty darn good with our recommended PID coefficients.

Hopefully this explains why we didnt just use a straightforward boost coefficient with no feedback loop to control the boost.

Mass Airflow Sensor

Many people have speculated that the mass air sensor maxing out at 5-volts is responsible for the fuel cut. We wanted to see if we could induce a fuel cut to investigate further and were unable to produce one even at 19psi. Here is a chart with the boost pressure relative to the mass air sensor voltage.

136937.jpg


Keep in mind that peak air/fuel consumption does not occur at peak horsepower or towards redline. The most air will be ingested at the torque peak. So, this chart shows both the incline and decline of the mass air sensor voltage (the voltage decline is more difficult to see on this chart) indicating that peak torque has already been reached. Also worth noting is that the peak sensor voltage occurred at 5267rpm and was 4.29-volts, which is well below the 5-volt maximum. Not surpringly, we did not experience any fuel cut.

Next week we visit the dyno with the wideband and well also get some data on the fuel injector duty cycle to see if we can get some indication as to how much fuel this thing can flow. Lou is also determined to gain control over the throttle plate. Because his piggyback is so versatile, he can incorporate a process that will help the throttle plate mimic the users throttle input better. This is a tricky challenge, but look for throttle control on the SPEED3/6 in the near future.



Since we're now official sponsors, feel free to post up questions or comments, or you can PM us under our www.cp-e.com handle.

Jordan
 
Awesome to see u jumping in and trying to conquer the mazdaspeed ecu! :D As far as the throttle plate goes.....u could have asked any Mazda tech and they could have told u that the TP is governed. My techs told me the exact percentage that it opens up for the Speed6 and Speed3, but cant remember what it was....its been quite awhile.

Goodluck with everything, and hope u figure it out.
 
So when will you have a plugnplay setup and for how much more? Pretty much everyone is waiting for that...no one wants to splice into there ECU. Your price is far better than the XEDE and that makes it far more attractive. If you can get a plug and a map near the 290whp mark I will be more than happy to order when you are ready.
 
Great job and wonderful info. It is awesome to see another informative post from a vendor offering a new product for the MS6/3.

Thanks,
R
 
CitizenPro said:
Awesome to see u jumping in and trying to conquer the mazdaspeed ecu! :D As far as the throttle plate goes.....u could have asked any Mazda tech and they could have told u that the TP is governed. My techs told me the exact percentage that it opens up for the Speed6 and Speed3, but cant remember what it was....its been quite awhile.

Goodluck with everything, and hope u figure it out.

Well, this data wasn't recorded solely to prove whether or not the throttle plate moves during wide open throttle. We were looking to validate our piggyback, and show off its datalogging capabilities. We also hadn't seen any posts that illustrated how the throttle plate moves during WOT on the SPEED6, so we thought this would be a good time to verify that. We also wanted to be sure that it didn't "rain on our parade" like the SPEED3 throttle does. The throttle plate on the SPEED3 takes a huge toll on the performance potential of the engine according to our datalogs.


jcgemt2003 said:
So when will you have a plugnplay setup and for how much more? Pretty much everyone is waiting for that...no one wants to splice into there ECU. Your price is far better than the XEDE and that makes it far more attractive. If you can get a plug and a map near the 290whp mark I will be more than happy to order when you are ready.


Tough question with no good answer unfortunately. I believe all the tuner companies are going to the same electrical connector distributors, so I believe if one company finds connectors, we all will. We do have one avenue for sourcing connectors if all other options fail. We haven't finalized pricing on the PnP model yet, but we're looking to come in around $700.

And truth be told (please don't take offense to this), big horsepower numbers isn't really how we operate at CPE. Obviously horsepower sells, but we're more concerned with the versatility and robustness of the unit. Let me explain. The amount of power one can extract from an engine is pretty much based on your fuel mixture, ignition timing, and boost pressure. How you go about controlling these parameters isn't important as long as they function correctly. In other words, it doesn't matter which tuner you use, so much as what you change. So, we maybe could in theory produce a map for a stock SPEED6 that makes 290hp, but at what cost? Should we increase boost, timing advance, and lean out the mixture just to post good power numbers?

Tuning a car is a black art in that there's no real right answer. We would like to create a base tune for a SPEED6 that makes a lot of power because that's what everyone is here for, but we're going to make sure our tune is safe, but still a lot of fun. If you want to push your car harder than we will, well then have at it and let us know how it goes!


Rainman said:
Great job and wonderful info. It is awesome to see another informative post from a vendor offering a new product for the MS6/3.

Thanks,
R


Glad you liked the info in the post!! (drinks)


Jordan
 
Very well put...Im also concerned about safe ranges...I have concerns about blowing my engine and turbo so its nice to hear that your not just lookn to put a ton of power into the car to sell units...leaving the customer to wonder how much wear and tear he is actually causing...Thank you very much for the timely response.
 
CP-E is definaely the way to go, Im definatelly looking forward on this tune and as jcgemt said, it is great you guys are thinking of power and safety!

How many whp/tq gains?
 
Looking foward to purchasing this unit when it's PnP, I don't understand all the info but your taking the time to post it and then the added explaination of:
"And truth be told (please don't take offense to this), big horsepower numbers isn't really how we operate at CPE. Obviously horsepower sells, but we're more concerned with the versatility and robustness of the unit."

just convinced me to take my time and wait for CP-E to "get it done right the first time" before I place an order.

Thanks Jordan
 
This unit definitely interest me, but if this unit puts down some good numbers I may consider this over the xede piggyback system after the taxes get done.
 
VA03Speed said:
This unit definitely interest me, but if this unit puts down some good numbers I may consider this over the xede piggyback system after the taxes get done.
ThatS funny as hell...thats what me and probably 10 other people are waitn for (TAX RETURNS)!
 
So it sounds like the speed 3 setup is not optimal for tuning. When do you think you will have a tuning solution for the speed 3?
 
I'm glad to hear you guys like what you see so far! I'll keep updating this post as we get closer to production, and please don't hesitate to ask a question about our piggyback or CPE in general.


Karma_hunden said:
CP-E is definaely the way to go, Im definatelly looking forward on this tune and as jcgemt said, it is great you guys are thinking of power and safety!

How many whp/tq gains?


If I were to guess, I'd say our map will probably add about 20-30hp. This is of course an "off the top of my head" estimate since we haven't created the map yet. I think it really depends on how much more timing we can safely add, and how much fuel we can safely take out. We already found that running much over 16psi of boost doesn't really do a whole lot because of the efficiency of this turbo.


dread said:
So it sounds like the speed 3 setup is not optimal for tuning. When do you think you will have a tuning solution for the speed 3?


We actually brought our SPEED3 to the dyno a few weeks ago to run some tests. We wanted to see if our piggyback would work on the SPEED3, and we wanted to see how bad the infamous e-throttle really was. We weren't gentle with our SPEED car, as we ran over 50 WOT dyno pulls that day! Fortunately, we found our piggyback was able to successfully adjust boost, timing, and air/fuel, but the throttle plate is really quite a show stopper. The SPEED6's throttle does limit boost to some degree towards redline, but we felt that to get the most out of the SPEED3, you need to get control of that throttle body. We can only imagine how much opwer one can pick up by opening the throttle a little more at WOT. Horsepower is a function of volumetric efficiency, and I can't imagine a 1/3-opened throttle plate at 6000rpm is very beneficial for power production.

Also, despite what some magazines say, we datalogged the throttle position during our dyno runs and found that it limits boost to some degree in every gear below 5th. In other words, the throttle is still closing early and limiting boost even in fourth gear. So we feel our piggyback for the SPEED3 is incomplete in its current state. The only way to fix this problem is to get control of the throttle plate.

As a result, we're reconfiguring our circuit board to accomodate two extra processors to control the throttle body on the SPEED3. Our electrical engineer has started this project, as he's finishing the piggyback for the SPEED6. I imagine we'll have something to show for the SPEED3 in about a month or so if things go well.


Jordan
 
Nice, its good to hear that you guys are being very thorough, and air on the side of a safe tune. To the best of your knowledge does the XEDE control throttle position or will the CPE, be the first to do this. I am guessing you want to control the throttle position so the power doesn't drop at 5500rpms.
 
grats cpe! I'm glad to see another company on here that is more concerned with driveability and safety, then just big hp/tq numbers to sell units! I look forward to reading about more results...
 
dread said:
Nice, its good to hear that you guys are being very thorough, and air on the side of a safe tune. To the best of your knowledge does the XEDE control throttle position or will the CPE, be the first to do this. I am guessing you want to control the throttle position so the power doesn't drop at 5500rpms.


Please understand, I'm not here to make speculations about other people's products, since I wouldn't want other people making claims about CPE's intentions or goals. Maybe the Xede reps on the board can give you a better idea of what they're plans are for the throttle plate.

But we are pursuing control over the throttle plate for exactly the reason you mentioned.


DSMConvert said:
grats cpe! I'm glad to see another company on here that is more concerned with driveability and safety, then just big hp/tq numbers to sell units! I look forward to reading about more results...


Thanks for the warm welcome! We're really excited to finally be on the boards here, and you can expect more sharing of technical data with the community. We love learning about these cars, and we figure you guys do too. So we'll be posting our findings on the boards to help stir up interest, and to get valuable feedback from you guys.


Jordan
 
if you can get significant gains, pnp and keep tp open a lot more so that the power doesnt die til redline lol....xede (second on list) and cobb ap (first on list) will probably be headin out of the window.

what will you need for tuning?
 
www.cp-e.com said:
Please understand, I'm not here to make speculations about other people's products, since I wouldn't want other people making claims about CPE's intentions or goals. Maybe the Xede reps on the board can give you a better idea of what they're plans are for the throttle plate.

But we are pursuing control over the throttle plate for exactly the reason you mentioned.





Thanks for the warm welcome! We're really excited to finally be on the boards here, and you can expect more sharing of technical data with the community. We love learning about these cars, and we figure you guys do too. So we'll be posting our findings on the boards to help stir up interest, and to get valuable feedback from you guys.


Jordan

Yeah I figured as much, didn't mean to put you in a bad spot.
 
Back