Custom Performance Engineering's complete SPEED6 tuning solution
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www.cp-e.com
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jdub260 said:
Booster said:
You know, we thought all the piggyback vendors were going through the same connector distributor, but it looks like Ken from Protege Garage beat us to the punch. We've been trying to reach our connector rep, but he recently fell ill and had to undergo emergency open heart surgery. So if everyone is going through the same distributor, then we may have access to connectors too, but we have to wait for our contact to return to work to get the full scoop.
We're all really excited to release this piggyback because we feel it will really help wake the car up. But, I think the best feature is the PID feedback boost control. The fact that you can set a boost pressure, and the Standback will adjust the wastegate until you hit that pressure is awesome. No more dangerous 20+psi boost spikes, and no more tweaking due to environmental variances.
We're also very proud of, and strongly recommend our method of fuel control over MAF fuel control for a couple very important reasons. We recently learned that the fuel system isn't limited by the fuel injectors (ie. maxxing out the injector duty cycle), but it's limited by the high pressure fuel pump of all things!
Now, when you try to add fuel through the MAF, you're essntially telling the car to stretch its injector pulse-width to counter a lean condition. When you do this, volumetric fuel flow increases, and the high pressure pump needs to maintain the same rail pressure with a greater taxation on flow. What happens is the high pressure pump can't maintain the pressure and flow required, and fuel flow tapers off as the pulse-width increases (fuel needs pressure to flow). This is bad because the obvious solution is to, well, increase the MAF voltage some more, which will again increase the pulse-width. But as you know, if there isn't pressure, then there isn't fuel flow, and this just creates a vicious cycle.
Secondly, if you're adjusting fuel through the MAF, then you're creating an adjustment window that's limited by a 5-volt sensor. We've seen bolt-on cars run as high as 4.5-volt MAF signals, which only leaves less then 0.5-volts to add fuel with. Our method of fuel control has none of these limitations, since we don't use the MAF OR MAP to add fuel. We found a very unique way to add fuel without creating an arbitrary operation window for ourselves.
I think everyone is going to be taken aback by all of the capabilities you get for just $635. Even better yet (and I kid you not on this) we have other "locked" functions on the board that we'll unlock later once the software is fully written. I've been told not to mention the specifics, but we'll be sharing the details about these functions very soon.
Things are still looking good for a release next week. When we announce the release, we'll include a full writeup of all the Standback's capabilities so you don't need to go digging through 20+ page threads for all the info. It will all be organized so you can effectively compare out unit to other piggybacks. And thanks for everyone's patience through this long project!!
Jordan (cool)
Great to hear Jordan - can you tell me of you have managed to completely eliminate fuel cut issues also? I know there has always been some speculation on what actually causes the fuel cut, but I also seem to remember a post quite a while back explaining you all had figured it out. Thanks for all the hard work, the connector thing seems promising, but I'm not going to hold my breath
Karma_hunden
Member
- :
- '04 protege, then '05 mazda 3i, then '06 MS6 GT, now '10 RX8 R3
will we be able to hold boost/shift till redline!?!?!? How much boost can be manage?
...im starting to like this (shady)
...im starting to like this (shady)
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Gandalf said:Great to hear Jordan - can you tell me of you have managed to completely eliminate fuel cut issues also? I know there has always been some speculation on what actually causes the fuel cut, but I also seem to remember a post quite a while back explaining you all had figured it out. Thanks for all the hard work, the connector thing seems promising, but I'm not going to hold my breath
Yes we have, but let me explain about the whole fuel cut issue. We've found that the "fuel cut" is induced by what the ECU interprets as a sensor anomaly. People thought the fuel cuts were just boost related, but we're finding that there's more to it. We "confused" various sensors while testing our piggyback and could induce a fuel cut through many of them. But the two most common ways to induce a fuel cut is too much boost, or too much fuel trim correction.
Your fuel trims are a reflection of the ECU's efforts to get the air/fuel mixture back where it wants it to be. It uses a table to find a recommended pulse-width that will yield a desired air/fuel ratio according to the engine load and MAF voltage. So anytime you change your MAF voltage, you're also changing where the ECU looks in this table. That means as you artificially increase the MAF voltage from the actual reading, the fuel trims get increasingly worse. When the ECU reaches its adjustment limits, it can no longer add or remove fuel, so it shuts off the injectors in order to save the engine. We can all thank Mazda for this (bird)
We believe that this is why we couldn't add more than 10% fuel to the car through the mass air meter. We were exceeding that fuel trim adjustment window and were triggering a fuel cut. This is also just another reason why we went to another method of fuel control. We want to be able to add fuel (and hence change the air/fuel ratio) without changing where the ECU is looking in its reference tables. Anytime you change the operating characteristics of your engine (i.e. adding performance parts), you're going to change your fueling conditions. But by leaving the MAF alone, we have more room to play without causing problems.
So the short answer is yes, our Standback has the ability to eliminate a fuel cut. But it really depends on what it's caused by. If it's fuel trim related, and is due to a poorly engineered MAF housing for instance, then the answer is maybe. It really depends on how bad the condition is and how much time and patience you have. But if you're experiencing a fuel cut from too much boost, then the answer is most definitely yes.
Jordan
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Karma_hunden said:
Yup, boost is being held to redline. You type in a value, and if the turbo can handle it, the wastegate solenoid will be manipulated until produces the boost pressure you're looking for.
How much can we manage? That's a tough (and loaded) question, but in our opinion, anything over 17psi (measured at the manifold) isn't a great idea. Although, your question is totally subject to opinion, so someone may chime in with a different idea of what the maximum boost the turbo is capable of. But we've run as high as 19 pounds, but we feel the turbo is so far out of its efficiency range that its just blowing hot air at that point.
Jordan
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LBV said:
Probably not. If you want more fuel than the high pressure pump can handle, in my opinion the easiest solution is to add secondary port fuel injectors.
Jordan
RevLimitLaunch
Member
- :
- 06 MS6/03.5 MSP
have you been able to control the e-throttle to open up more, and all the way too redline? i wasn't sure if this pertained to the full boost to redline but better off asking i guess
Boost
Hi!
I am ordering your EMS as soon as is avaible!
now the questions.
1) I have a ATP GT7031R turbo upgrade, worked to fit CPE DP
2) CPE catted down pipe and Magnaflow exhaust(3" custom middle section)
3) No CAI but a K&N in box replacement filter.( I am old for the noise)
What is a maximun-save boost that I can use, with your EMS and upgrades I have? Keeping in mind that it has factory internals.
Also I am planing in adding your future manifold and FMIC or TMIC.
Also I have the ATP fuel cut killer module installed, I asume that I will have to remove it when I install your EMS?
Let me know please.
JC
www.cp-e.com said:
Hi!
I am ordering your EMS as soon as is avaible!
now the questions.
1) I have a ATP GT7031R turbo upgrade, worked to fit CPE DP
2) CPE catted down pipe and Magnaflow exhaust(3" custom middle section)
3) No CAI but a K&N in box replacement filter.( I am old for the noise)
What is a maximun-save boost that I can use, with your EMS and upgrades I have? Keeping in mind that it has factory internals.
Also I am planing in adding your future manifold and FMIC or TMIC.
Also I have the ATP fuel cut killer module installed, I asume that I will have to remove it when I install your EMS?
Let me know please.
JC
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RevLimitLaunch said:
I'll be honest, there is some semblance of boost taper at redline, but it is very slight. Nothing like that of the SPEED3. We plan to fix this issue with our next generation piggyback but we're still months away from having anything to show you guys. But our boost control is so precise that one of our first beta testers said the car felt stronger just using our boost control strategy at stock boost levels.
Booster said:
Hey JC, I would stick to ATP's recommendation of 22psi for that turbo. This will keep it well within its efficiency range, you should have plenty of fuel, and the shortblock should hold up okay under those power levels. If this is a daily driver, or if you can't afford to buy a new engine, I wouldn't exceed 22psi until more people have explored the limits of this engine. But this is just my opinion
As far as the boost cut killer, I would recommend removing it because it may mess with our piggybacks boost control. It was great lying to the factory ECU about things, but that what our piggyback's job is. So keeping the boost cut killer on there may screw with our unit, and the piggyback has an electronic equivalent of the boost cut killer anyway, so keeping it on the car would be redundant. Hope this helps!
Jordan
dadasracecar
Member
I'm still running all zero's but with the boost set to 15 psi on the piggyback (we're still having scheduling issues Lou, Jordan, and myself) and the car is completely different and most noticeable at part throttle driving. It's so much more responsive. I recently went back to the bypass plug for a drive home and felt like the car had so much lag when first pushing the accelerator. I have nothing but absolute praise for the CPE piggyback and we haven't even tuned yet.
Karma_hunden
Member
- :
- '04 protege, then '05 mazda 3i, then '06 MS6 GT, now '10 RX8 R3
Just a little update for yall. MS6Mike/Michael got his yesterday, he will be installing it today in the morning, should give you feedback on it in a while.
its go time...(drive2)
its go time...(drive2)
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Today i connected the laptop to the STANDBACK, I switched the boost from 15 to 17 psi. The boost holds to 6200RPM and then goes to 14 psi, this product is great and if i can install it anybody can. tomorrow i will be going to the track my last time was 13.7 at 99MPH. the program is so easy to use! i will be tunning once i get my catback and FMIC! they will be in shortly. my current mods are CPE CAI, CPE cattless dP, SU rear motor mount, autoEXE springs, autometer gauge, greedy turbo timer. RX8 wheels, and CPE standback EMS!!!!! more to come.
