Cp-e problem with me

[Haltech]

Why the personal attacks? Cheerleading outfit...hm It's cosmic blue to match my car...cute eh? Why are you so interested in my cheerleading outfit?

I too was hesitant about getting into the import community because of it being kids...granted from the polls (which we know are so accurate lol) show most people are older :-\ Congrats on your successes in the hot rod community. Maybe you can have the same in the import community.

You started with the personal attacks my friend... Im not about to let you throw mud in my face and walk away clean. I do plan to have a success in the import community, however this needs to be dealt with in a reasonable matter without ANY cheeleading going on with vendors. You can throw any of the equations out, but what still remains is injustice by CPE to 2 of my friends who have been a benefit to this community.

 

[palerider]

(As an aside, it would be interesting to see ages of all of the people whining in this thread.)

Strangely I think in this case the guys are a little older.

 

[Haltech]

mrlilguy lied to Ken about having all kinds of support from autotech about the pump. He convinced Ken to buy pumps b/c of his "close relationship" with autotech. Autotech came on and put things right and Ken came out the wiser. Props to Jonathan for sourcing the solution but if he really had the community's interest at heart, he could have just said, "buy these internals for $350 here and do it yourself." He didn't. He got Ken to buy the internals at full retail and try to mark them up from that and sell them. Ever wonder why the price of the pump suddenly dropped from the initial $629? http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3459738&postcount=46

It's not fair to bring the mrlilguy situation into this without the facts. Keep it to Laloosh v cp-e or better yet, let it die.

He didnt lie, where the hell did you get your information? the guy from Autotek was pissed his name was brought up. Jonathon jumped the gun, big deal, i see it all the time with PnP on piggyback systems or various other parts out there. Hell, he was excited that the one mod you needed to get our cars to the next level, was completed! And for your information, the price of those internals can be had pretty damn cheap if you know where to go. Jonathon could easily under cut PG by $100 and still make a hefty profit...

 

[mdogg]

Strangely I think in this case the guys are a little older.

That's odd to find out - it seems like something a teenager would end up doing... I would think that older and (hopefully) more mature guys would be smart enough to just man up and deal with the problem face to face (or at least keep it only involving the parties involved - phone/email, etc.) rather than crying about it on a public forum...... I guess I was wrong.

 

[Betelgeuse]

That's odd to find out - it seems like something a teenager would end up doing... I would think that older and (hopefully) more mature guys would be smart enough to just man up and deal with the problem face to face (or at least keep it only involving the parties involved - phone/email, etc.) rather than crying about it on a public forum...... I guess I was wrong.

This deserves to stay just the way it is, out in the open. Everyone has a right to know what's going on considering the whole debate started on a public forum. If CP-E had done things right, this thread wouldn't exist. As of now the member in question is unbanned so his little rant on here did indeed help his situation. It has also raised a lot questions regarding CP-E's standback on the speed3. This is the kind of info members would want to (and should)know before buying a product.

 

[Boost Addict]

This deserves to stay just the way it is, out in the open. Everyone has a right to know what's going on considering the whole debate started on a public forum. If CP-E had done things right, this thread wouldn't exist. As of now the member in question is unbanned so his little rant on here did indeed help his situation. It has also raised a lot questions regarding CP-E's standback on the speed3. This is the kind of info members would want to (and should)know before buying a product.

Wise words spoken:

"Can I get an Amen?"
-a random Reverend on any given Sunday

"Can I get a Hell Yeah?"
-Dr. Dre

 

[tru-boost]

Laloosh has been a demeaning, condescending royal piece of $hit to several members... Do WE have the authority to ban him and pass judgment just because we don't like his attitude? NO. So why should you?

see, now i honestly think that laloosh is my favorite member from BOTH forums. he tells it like it is ....period. some people get offender by the truth.
guys like me and laloosh dont care though. we are not going to sugar coat it and pretend that eveything is just wonderful. people have brand/company loyalty and thats where these fights come from. that and buyers remorse. people dont want to hear that their $600 investment was a total waste, and they become defensive. i get it ....honestly i do. i wish it was avoidable but its not. as for cp-e saying "why does this stuff go onto the forums" ?
well, thats what they are for. they are message boards. the owner will talk abot good/bad experiences from vendors. they dont ask that question in a thread about someone saying how much they like their downpipe do they ??
of coarse not, but when the s*** hits the fan, and god forbid someone not agree with them.... LOOK OUT !!
as for the fuel pump..... iw ill be getting mine very soon. i will be tuning it along with my new boost control set-up. i have numerous other dyno graphs we can compare it to after the install. if the powerband does infact fall off at a later RPM it will be very clear to see on a dyno.

 

[palerider]

Im my favorite poster. Laloosh and everybody else is second

 

[mdogg]

as for the fuel pump..... iw ill be getting mine very soon. i will be tuning it along with my new boost control set-up. i have numerous other dyno graphs we can compare it to after the install. if the powerband does infact fall off at a later RPM it will be very clear to see on a dyno.

How are you tuning for the pump (since your sig apparently indicates you have no CP-e parts....)? Do you have some other EMS? Or by "tuning" do you actually mean "turning up the boost"?

 

[mrlilguy157]

mrlilguy lied to Ken about having all kinds of support from autotech about the pump. He convinced Ken to buy pumps b/c of his "close relationship" with autotech. Autotech came on and put things right and Ken came out the wiser. Props to Jonathan for sourcing the solution but if he really had the community's interest at heart, he could have just said, "buy these internals for $350 here and do it yourself." He didn't. He got Ken to buy the internals at full retail and try to mark them up from that and sell them. Ever wonder why the price of the pump suddenly dropped from the initial $629? http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3459738&postcount=46

i didn't ever pay full retail for parts, neither did ken. the only reason Bryan at Autotech called me out was because CP-E was being punks talking to APR and Autotech telling them both that they were interested in using these kits for the pumps. Bryan and I discussed getting our private market label official after SEMA, because all of this started Thursday before SEMA week, and he couldn't get the documentation lined up until afterwards. The price went down from $629 because CPE and you yourself (working very closely with CPE - I can hear Josh telling you to say stuff to try and capture the market, but Josh can't do that) brought information up, tarnishing what was originally presented, trying to bring down me and my pump kits with Ken. Therefore, the profit which was being made was brought down significantly. I think the original costs of the pump upgrades was priced fairly, considering APR offers the mail in/mail back upgrade for $650 and a full blown new pump for $1100. I know APR profits a hell load of money off of that, and CP-E's pumps may not cost that much, but it will be significantly more than the PG kit. Josh told me himself, "We're putting documentation with every pump and doing all this research and are assembling in APR's clean room, we can't compete with you and Ken's prices because we're doing all of this." I told him, "Sounds like you've got the better product ", but he then affirmed my implication by stating, "This isn't a product which people are going to buy because of the documentation, people are going to buy a product that works and shows numbers".

Obviously, PG's pump does that and thats where we stand. Why would I or Ken go in to ridiculous lengths of research to see if these flow more fuel, if the VW/Audi pumps do so and they're the same Hitachi assembly with different inlet/return/outlet fittings? They have already been proven to work for over a year and over 50,000 by Revo, without any modified tune whatsoever, benefitting more power in the midrange....

It's not fair to bring the mrlilguy situation into this without the facts. \

right back at ya brosefff (idhitit)


Kevin (Haltech) knows everything. He was my right hand man through all of this. Josh at Cp-E asked me directly, "Do you think your buddy in California can keep this quiet?" Haltech knows the truth.

dadasracecar, please get off your knees, you're blowing the game


laloosh - once again congrats on your crazy time slips, and i knew all along these pumps would be worth it. sorry CP-E is treating you so rough. (kiss). we both know they're angry that you're proving results with a different product. thats what i think this really all comes down to.

 

[palerider]

How are you tuning for the pump (since your sig apparently indicates you have no CP-e parts....)? Do you have some other EMS? Or by "tuning" do you actually mean "turning up the boost"?

Not that it matters but the gains in question were achieved by just "turning up the boost". I think for alot of people if these threads did anything they lowered our expectations of what "tuning" will actually accomplish. Especially since the throttle issue is still not solved.

 

[palerider]

Obviously, PG's pump does that and thats where we stand. Why would I or Ken go in to ridiculous lengths of research to see if these flow more fuel, if the VW/Audi pumps do so and they're the same Hitachi assembly with different inlet/return/outlet fittings? They have already been proven to work for over a year and over 50,000 by Revo, without any modified tune whatsoever, benefitting more power in the midrange....

Woah. Do we know where the power comes from? And how does that apply to the MS3.... Laloosh showed gains topend.

I wish we had a discussion still on this. I could quit posting so much and do more reading.

 

[dadasracecar]

Ooops... Looks like I ruffled some feathers there. Patience little one, you'll figure those panties out.

The price went down from $629 because CPE and you yourself (working very closely with CPE - I can hear Josh telling you to say stuff to try and capture the market, but Josh can't do that) brought information up, tarnishing what was originally presented, trying to bring down me and my pump kits with Ken. Therefore, the profit which was being made was brought down significantly. I think the original costs of the pump upgrades was priced fairly, considering APR offers the mail in/mail back upgrade for $650 and a full blown new pump for $1100.

dadasracecar, please get off your knees, you're blowing the game

 

[mrlilguy157]

Woah. Do we know where the power comes from? And how does that apply to the MS3.... Laloosh showed gains topend.

I wish we had a discussion still on this. I could quit posting so much and do more reading.

well top end is obvious, yes, because there is more pressure there to pump fuel with all of that crazy quick airflow up top.... but in the midrange you will see fat torque and more power as well.

First off, those of you that have encountered the dreaded fuel cut know that more fuel is needed at low to mid RPM. The factory pump is not capable of building the requested amount of fuel pressure necessary to feed increased boost at low RPM. Many of the tuners have masked this by starting the line pressure higher ( raised from ~110bar to ~130bar) before the engine/ turbo make their way up to fuel cut. Sometimes this allows the engine to accelerate past the known fuel cut scenarios before the fuel pressure drops low enough to trigger a fuel cut. As chip tuners get more aggressive with their fuel and boost maps near boost onset, this problem gets worse.
By increasing the volume of fuel displaced each cycle the pump makes (3 per 720 crank degrees), the pump is capable of pumping more fuel for a given RPM. For example, lets say that Brand X pump is capable of pumping 100cc/min. of fuel @ 3000RPM, and 200cc./min @ 6000RPM. The engine may only require 110cc. of fuel @ 3000, and 180cc @ 6000RPM. In the above situation, it's the lack of fuel volume @ 3000RPM that is the limit, because at 6000RPM the pump is capable of flowing 11% more fuel than needed. Let's say that Brand Y increased the displacement of the pump, and it's flow capacity goes up to 135cc/min @ 3000RPM, and 270cc. @ 6000RPM. That means that the upon installation of Brand Y's pump, the engine will be recieving all 110cc/min of fuel it requires, along with an extra ~23% excess. Now let's say the ECU is flashed with software that ups the boost in the midrange and tapers it down near stock levels @ 6000RPM. It is concievable that the engine would now require 130cc./min @ 3000RPM, and 190cc./min @ 6000RPM. With Brand X pump, the engine would definitely hit a fuel cut @ 3000RPM, but the pump would be capable of keeping up @ 6000RPM. Add Brand Y's fuel pump and the engine can take in all the fuel it requires, at 3000RPM, and 6000RPM. Now the dilema lies in increasing the volume of the pump enough to meet demands but not so much that the ECU controlled regulator/ bypass valve is outflowed.

Some pumps ( or kits) that will be coming to market have seals that are OEM, and some are high quality aftermarket seals. Both are acceptable. The tolerances inside the pumps are very tight, and care must be taken by whomever assembles the pump. Some pumps will be assembled by the company, some will come in kit form requiring (sp?) assembly. It is not a dificult task to assemble a pump. Assembly can be done with one socket, a lint free towel, and clean hands.(overly simplified, but after all, that's essentially all that is needed) For those that are not capable of, or afraid to assemble their pumps, I am sure the company manufacturing the pump will perform the assembly using your pump housing for a small charge.

Now on to the myth about quality vs. cost... Just because a product is less expensive, doesn't mean that it is not lower quality. Sometimes a company may be able to hold a tighter tolerance, and still charge less. Especially if the parts are "easy" for them to deal with. For example, the company that "fits" our pump parts, deals with tolerances 5 times more accurate than we require on these parts. To these guys, 25 millionths of an inch is a clearance (and 5 millionths tolerance) on some parts. So the fact that we have a tolerance of that same 25 millionths makes our parts "easy" for them. These same guys deal with parts very similar to ours every day of the year for the aerospace industry. I am sure that most of, or all the pumps that come to market will have no more clearance than the .0002" that the factory parts have. Some companies measure in metric, so let me tell you that 1 Micron is equal to a little over 39.37 millionths of an inch. So in essence (sp?) our tolerance is ~.635 Microns.

In short, the fuel pump won't increase the peak hp. capacity of stock turbo cars, but it will allow more aggressive tunes at lower RPM.

I think that's a pretty good start towards an education on the new FSI rail pumps that will be coming to market soon.

directly from Bryan@Autotech from VWVortex.

im out for another night. homework time kids

 

[Boost Addict]

see, now i honestly think that laloosh is my favorite member from BOTH forums. he tells it like it is ....period. some people get offender by the truth.
guys like me and laloosh dont care though. we are not going to sugar coat it and pretend that eveything is just wonderful. people have brand/company loyalty and thats where these fights come from. that and buyers remorse. people dont want to hear that their $600 investment was a total waste, and they become defensive. i get it ....honestly i do. i wish it was avoidable but its not. as for cp-e saying "why does this stuff go onto the forums" ?
well, thats what they are for. they are message boards. the owner will talk abot good/bad experiences from vendors. they dont ask that question in a thread about someone saying how much they like their downpipe do they ??
of coarse not, but when the s*** hits the fan, and god forbid someone not agree with them.... LOOK OUT !!
as for the fuel pump..... iw ill be getting mine very soon. i will be tuning it along with my new boost control set-up. i have numerous other dyno graphs we can compare it to after the install. if the powerband does infact fall off at a later RPM it will be very clear to see on a dyno.

haha.. dont even lie tru... you know I'm your favorite.

 

[laloosh]

well... CPE wanting him to stop posting in their sections was reasonable I think. just like mazdaspeed33 kept posting crap about **********, he was warnd to stop, he did (as far as I know) Laloosh was warned...

CPE may be a paying sponsor, but the mods are the ones who decide to ban someone...cpe asked for him to not be able to post in their section because they felt he was spreading misinformation, instead the admin decided to ban him.

This thread is turning personal for some other people so i too am out of it...I have some good friends on the boards But i have been growing tired of all the personal attacks people like to make when they can sit behind a keyboard :-\ Especially when we're all on the same side...we want products for our car. I hate to see all these people threating CPE when CPE does so much for our community...If they were truely a bad company i wouldn't stand behind them...but I have yet to see them do anything evil like you all seem to think.

*shrug* Opinions are like assholes...everyones got em.

listen you thick headed mule....SHOW ME WHERE I POSTED ANYTHING AGAINST CPE PRIOR TO THE FORMATION OF THIS THREAD!!! SOME1 PLEASE DO IT ALREADY. Good luck finding it.

 

[newwildchild]

so any comment CPE, where ready to hear your side of the story why????





.
.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

heres the truly depressing part. there are, as of this post, 700 active people on these forums. two thirds of those people are guests, not members. i am sure a good portion of them are going to stumble into this thread. at that point they are either going to only make it so far and get disgusted, or they are going to read through to the end and still be in shock. point is, for some of these people, this will be thier first and potentially last experience with these forums, the companies mentioned in this thread, etc. some people aren't going to care about the behind the scenes, the drama, the rights or the wrongs or the whodunits. all they are going to see is a bunch of mudslinging and disarray and tarnished reputations.

no one is going to come out here looking like a saint. no one is going to win today, but in a way we're all going to lose. the comments about mrlilguy needing to apologize to me for this or that; he has done so, and that matter is - for me anyways - resolved. yes i was bitterly disappointed/angry and yes i feel that it made me look bad, but he knows all that and life goes on. i harbor no ill will. if people like cashmere want to jump on that, then so be it. cashmere has never and will never like me and i really could care less. i made attempts to talk to him and be pals and he didn't want any of that. outside of nutari ratting him out for his ride of the month scam, i don't know what i did to earn his wrath. its not really that important because i know the kind of person he is, and how he feeds off any baseless chance he can take to snipe at me. there are always going to people like that, i've long since reconciled with that. every company has its fanbase, sometimes that fanbase is virulent in defending them. thats part of business, part of capitalism.

i know not everyone is going to be my friend. i know there are going to be times where i let someone down. i know there are going to be times where someone disagrees with me. i don't want a monopoly, i don't want to be flawless and i don't want to everyone's friend. thats simply reality. what i do want is the same i've wanted for five years - to be a positive member of this community and run a good business. i am here to serve the community and help it move forward, and thats something we all should be doing. dragging this thread out does not do that.

 

[laloosh]

heres the truly depressing part. there are, as of this post, 700 active people on these forums. two thirds of those people are guests, not members. i am sure a good portion of them are going to stumble into this thread. at that point they are either going to only make it so far and get disgusted, or they are going to read through to the end and still be in shock. point is, for some of these people, this will be thier first and potentially last experience with these forums, the companies mentioned in this thread, etc. some people aren't going to care about the behind the scenes, the drama, the rights or the wrongs or the whodunits. all they are going to see is a bunch of mudslinging and disarray and tarnished reputations.

no one is going to come out here looking like a saint. no one is going to win today, but in a way we're all going to lose. the comments about mrlilguy needing to apologize to me for this or that; he has done so, and that matter is - for me anyways - resolved. yes i was bitterly disappointed/angry and yes i feel that it made me look bad, but he knows all that and life goes on. i harbor no ill will. if people like cashmere want to jump on that, then so be it. cashmere has never and will never like me and i really could care less. i made attempts to talk to him and be pals and he didn't want any of that. outside of nutari ratting him out for his ride of the month scam, i don't know what i did to earn his wrath. its not really that important because i know the kind of person he is, and how he feeds off any baseless chance he can take to snipe at me. there are always going to people like that, i've long since reconciled with that. every company has its fanbase, sometimes that fanbase is virulent in defending them. thats part of business, part of capitalism.

i know not everyone is going to be my friend. i know there are going to be times where i let someone down. i know there are going to be times where someone disagrees with me. i don't want a monopoly, i don't want to be flawless and i don't want to everyone's friend. i am here to serve the community and help it move forward, and thats something we all should be doing. dragging this thread out does not do that.

You also have been doing this for some time, and posts like this one are the sole reason threads like mine dont appear about you. I feel like its not even my thread anymore lol. My name gets dropped of being confrontal with no proof showing it...and thats where it stops. Personally im just amazed at how this turned out. Although I'm def not disappointed.

 

[Boost Addict]

heres the truly depressing part. there are, as of this post, 700 active people on these forums. two thirds of those people are guests, not members. i am sure a good portion of them are going to stumble into this thread. at that point they are either going to only make it so far and get disgusted, or they are going to read through to the end and still be in shock. point is, for some of these people, this will be thier first and potentially last experience with these forums, the companies mentioned in this thread, etc. some people aren't going to care about the behind the scenes, the drama, the rights or the wrongs or the whodunits. all they are going to see is a bunch of mudslinging and disarray and tarnished reputations.

no one is going to come out here looking like a saint. no one is going to win today, but in a way we're all going to lose. the comments about mrlilguy needing to apologize to me for this or that; he has done so, and that matter is - for me anyways - resolved. yes i was bitterly disappointed/angry and yes i feel that it made me look bad, but he knows all that and life goes on. i harbor no ill will. if people like cashmere want to jump on that, then so be it. cashmere has never and will never like me and i really could care less. i made attempts to talk to him and be pals and he didn't want any of that. outside of nutari ratting him out for his ride of the month scam, i don't know what i did to earn his wrath. its not really that important because i know the kind of person he is, and how he feeds off any baseless chance he can take to snipe at me. there are always going to people like that, i've long since reconciled with that. every company has its fanbase, sometimes that fanbase is virulent in defending them. thats part of business, part of capitalism.

i know not everyone is going to be my friend. i know there are going to be times where i let someone down. i know there are going to be times where someone disagrees with me. i don't want a monopoly, i don't want to be flawless and i don't want to everyone's friend. thats simply reality. what i do want is the same i've wanted for five years - to be a positive member of this community and run a good business. i am here to serve the community and help it move forward, and thats something we all should be doing. dragging this thread out does not do that.

I used to have a problem with Nutari's personality back in the XEDE days (could be a little because I've been a COBB leg humper for over 5 years and have a problem with anything Shiv touches)... but we've since resolved that and I think Nutari's done a lot of professional growing. And for that alone, I have a lot of respect for him. However, I was still never really drawn to consider giving business to Protege Garage. If it happened, it happened, I just wouldn't prefer it.

Reading this post from you is very valuable in my eyes as it opens a new door for me to do business with someone like you. Of course it takes more than one post, or one experience, or one thread to really solidify my loyalty with a company. But with this post, you've certainly give me something to consider. So thank you for showing me the way YOU conduct business, as it's a way that I can respect and understand.