CP-E MS6 dual exhaust may be coming

[chiefmg]

I agree with everyone that is a lot of money, but after much deliberation I have decided to add my name to the list. Lots of reasons which I won't go into as many of you might feel obliged to give me your opinion of my intelligence. Bottom line is it works for me.

Having said that, I doubt it will happen at all as we need to have 15 people ready to pay for CP-e to go ahead. Right now we went from having 16 people interested to two confirmed, with most of the others backing away from the price.

 

[Koenig]

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket..... I would sign up for it...... however

wheels > exhaust

I'd rather put my money into a set of lightweight wheels first. I'm also wondering since they haven't mentioned anything........ if MORE people sign up, would the price consider coming down?

 

[Killer]

I paid $450 for mine and eliminated the second cat in doing so. So you are correct.

I know.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to rant and just run away!!

Sorry cp-e, didn't mean to put you down or anything like that. I'm just a little shell-shocked about the prices to beaf up an import or tuner car or what ever these types vehicles are called. I'm used to building muscle cars and there is a huge difference in price most likely due to the larger amount of demand for the muscle car part and the volume. I hope that 10-20 years from now tuner parts will be just as cheap. As for now, I'll keep mine stock. Well maybe???

No offense taken, I just thought that it was necessary to explain why it is we charge the prices we do. The problem is that most people are used to the popular markets, like Mustangs and Civics, where the prices are cheap for reasons related to volume and overseas manufacturing. So yes, many people are shocked when they see our prices, but they often get more for their dollar too.

Just one example. I have a project Mustang with a 351W. I bought long tubes from a well known, and respected manufacturer. I bought them because they were cheap, and would get the job done. Once I got them home and under the car, the O2 bungs were welded in the wrong place, and there wasn't enough clearance to even install them! I ended up grinding away part of my transmission in order to make it fit :mad:

Next, I found out that the collectors were misaligned from the catback by about an inch and a half. After struggling against the manufacturers poor quality, I was dismayed to find the headers were rusting after only a couple months. I paid less, and as a result, I got less too. The headers may route the exhaust gasses like they said, but they skimped on everything else, and now I'm sorry that I didn't pay the extra $200 or so for a nice set of headers.

So trust me, I know exactly what you're talking about

I have a question.....does this in anyway combat the substantial "smoking" issue at idle that many people seem to run into?

Don't get me wrong, I understand about good quality, and the need for profit although you say that you don't make much... I couldn't tell for sure. Nothing personal against you but I know people will say one thing and mean another to get a point across or sell an item....

I can go to my friend and get a nice custom exhaust made, he would use 304 stainless and definitely do a nice TIG weld for me. But that's only cause he's my buddy and giving me a "hook up"

So I understand what you mean, but $1,100 is still a lot of money to pay for a "bolt on" performance part, that isn't going to give me much of a HP gain.... for only an extra $500 one could take that $1,100 and purchase a more powerful turbo for their MS6........... just my 2 cents.

And I know you guys make good parts cause I'm considering a CP-E CAI.

As far as us making money, I obviously can't quote figures, but the owners of the company drive a 1994 Ford Taurus, a 1996 Jeep Cherokee, and I drive a Geo Prizm. If we were making lot's of money, I promise that I wouldn't be sporting a Geo, lol! The truth is that we have a markup on our products, and we don't even take into account labor on most products.

This is also another great reason why we originally chose to go with a single exhaust. You get the most performance gain (about 20whp) with the least amount of material and labor. The only reason why we're entertaining this idea of a dual exhaust is because people have been asking for one for a long time. Now that we're ready to do one, no one wants to pay for the added materials and labor. We can't please everyone, but we'll continue trying regardless.

As far as the smoking, the catback exhaust is going to make the situation worse actually. The Mazda techs we spoke to claim the smoking issue is attributed to the turbo seals. The seals stay put when you generate boost, but whe you idle, vacuum is generated and it tugs the seal away from the turbine. Decreasing backpressure only increases the pressure differential across the seal. Some people get this smoking issue, and others don't.

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket..... I would sign up for it...... however

wheels > exhaust

I'd rather put my money into a set of lightweight wheels first. I'm also wondering since they haven't mentioned anything........ if MORE people sign up, would the price consider coming down?

The price may come down if more people sign up, but we don't save money on materials unless we buy in bulk. That would mean that the dual exhaust would have to become more popular than our single exhaust for us to pass on any kind of price break. So the price will likely stay where it is unfortunately



This is our offer to everyone, and if we can't generate enough interest, then we'll have to live with that. This is the cheapest price we can offer without losing money. If everyone can make custom systems for less, then go for it! We'll still make our single exhaust, and if the dual exhaust doesn't work out this time we'll be open to doing a dual exhaust in the future if the interest perks up again. We're sorry for the "sticker shock," guys!


Jordan

 

[Koenig]

it's all good......how much HP can you offer with the dual exhaust? lol.....j/k man if you drive a Geo that sucks...... I would have figured you'd have a project car hidden away somewhere at least......

I would definitely be interested in what, but that's if the price came down...... BTW, I have one last question....... the $1,100 is only for a dual exhaust or is this like a FULL system...... including a downpipe, turbo back exhaust, etc. ??


Also is is possible for me to yank the turbo from the car, and take it to a shop and have the seals reworked/replaced? has anyone tried doing that?

 

[www.cp-e.com]

it's all good......how much HP can you offer with the dual exhaust? lol.....j/k man if you drive a Geo that sucks...... I would have figured you'd have a project car hidden away somewhere at least......

I would definitely be interested in what, but that's if the price came down...... BTW, I have one last question....... the $1,100 is only for a dual exhaust or is this like a FULL system...... including a downpipe, turbo back exhaust, etc. ??


Also is is possible for me to yank the turbo from the car, and take it to a shop and have the seals reworked/replaced? has anyone tried doing that?

Actually, I spoke to the big bosses today and they're willing to make the system out of 409 stainless as opposed to 304. 304 has a higher nickel content, which is what makes 304 so darn expensive. Even though 409 is considered stainless, it will still rust over time. 409 is the type of steel Magnaflow typically uses on their exhaust systems. The $1100 is just for the catback, so you'd be getting a y-pipe and two exit pipes.

Regarding the turbo seals, you could absolutely do that, but its just a big hassle, and frankly Mazda should foot the bill. But since they're resistant to do anything about it, I wouldn't blame you if that's the route you decided to take. On the other hand, if you're going to yank the turbo anyway, why not stuff a bigger not back in there?

If the 409 interests you guys, then we'll crunch some numbers and see where that brings the price of the exhaust. I'm told it should make a considerable difference. Let me know what you guys think.


Jordan

 

[Koenig]

the 409 steel........even though the 304 is top notch...... the 409 would probably be the better way to go....... can you tell me..... would the 409 last me about 5 years before rusting? if that's the case (or longer) then I wouldn't mind a 409...... especially if it makes a considerable difference in the price......


as far as a newer turbo, I would consider it, I know I read on the street unit site that you guys are working on a turbo that will fit the factory bushings/housing or whatever it said? (basically will align with everything like the factory turbo)

the problem is because if I change out the turbo, I'm pretty sure mazda will notice and thus my warranty voided...... so I'll stick with stock for now, but would like to eliminate any oil leakage......


Put me down as one of those interested in seeing how much the 409 exhaust would come out to (2thumbs)

 

[chiefmg]

I have already made my decision to go with one of your dual exhausts, so as I posted on the other forum I am in for whatever it takes to get enough people signed on to make it.

Not to beat a dead horse, but everyone should recognize that everything is more expensive today in part due to higher fuel costs. As has been said, if you have things made overseas the reduced labor costs will drop your cost to the consumer but you have to worry about quality. There is a reason stuff is so cheap at WalMart.

Quality normally does improve over time as countries get experience in manufacturing modern products. Anyone else here old enough to remember when Made in Japan meant cheap junk? However by the time that happens with China these cars will be scrap.

As for getting one made at a local shop, you should ask what materials they will use. If it looks like the CP-e dual system is stalled I will be checking into that option myself when I get home. I would much rather have something that is made by a company that has experience with the car rather than a hack. I know most everyone thinks the exhaust is tucked away so who cares how it looks. Just remember it is living in one of the worst areas on a car for environmental associated damage. Any of you who have changed out an exhaust system and had rust falling into your face know what I am talking about. Personally I don't like climbing under my car any more than is necessary.

 

[Insignificant]

$1,100? That's pretty much what a Vette exhaust cost.

$1,100 for any cat-back is lunacy! They can keep it.

Let's get that price of the single exit cat-back down too so I will order one (rockon)

 

[Killer]

I dont know what I was thinking ...I actually thought you might have something positive to say.

 

[Koenig]

I dont know what I was thinking ...I actually thought you might have something positive to say.

(lol)

You're being hopeful..........(evil)

Insignificant, you are not going to find a GOOD exhaust for under $300....... but hey, you CAN dream........ while you remain stock other people are going to pass you by....... I can see you bought the intake, you didn't seem to b**** about that, aren't they like $400? I had a CAI on my F150, and it was $220. and an exhaust for my F150 with a 3" exit was going to go about $500 for me.....

 

[Insignificant]

Insignificant, you are not going to find a GOOD exhaust for under $300....... but hey, you CAN dream........

Where did I put the price of $300 on it? (screwy)

while you remain stock other people are going to pass you by....... I can see you bought the intake, you didn't seem to b**** about that, aren't they like $400?

I'm not trying to be the fastest. No, not $400.

 

[Insignificant]

I dont know what I was thinking ...I actually thought you might have something positive to say.

I don't know what I was thinking, I was hoping I wouldn't be the only one with common sense.

 

[Koenig]

Where did I put the price of $300 on it? (screwy)

I'm not trying to be the fastest. No, not $400.

You said you won't pay $400, for a DP...... I was only going down $100 to let you know........ you're not going to find a GOOD one, under $300.. that is all (yawn)

 

[PerfectXtreme]

Yeah... sadly... its going to cost soo much to get a dual setup from CPE... and it sounds like just a quick fix type thing... not a new design... just going to WELD another pipe onto the side... rather than a quality Y spit or something...

 

[www.cp-e.com]

Yeah... sadly... its going to cost soo much to get a dual setup from CPE... and it sounds like just a quick fix type thing... not a new design... just going to WELD another pipe onto the side... rather than a quality Y spit or something...

No, the $1100 exhaust will have a proper y-transition into a dual outlet.

We considered just grafting on a second pipe onto our existing catback, and this is why we originally said the dual exhaust would only cost $150-$200 more than the single exhaust. It seems that there are a handful of people here who want a dual exhaust, but pleasing everyone, or enough people to justify the effort, is nearly impossible.

First we wanted to graft on a new dual outlet section onto our existing dual exhaust because its quick and relatively cheap, but people thought that was a poor way to do it. So then we decided that we would make a proper dual exhaust with a nice y-transition, and now people are saying that the kit is going to be too expensive.

Now we're willing to work with people and make the kit out of 409 stainless steel as opposed to 304 (which means more costly overhead for us), and we're getting people who don't like that idea either. We're still going to come up with a final price on the 409 stainless system, but we're starting to believe that we're fighting a losing battle.

If you do a little looking around, $1100 for a dual catback isn't that unreasonable.

Turbo XS 350Z dual exhaust: $1249

Cobb Legacy GT dual exhaust: $1095

Eisenhaus 335i dual exhaust: $1298

If you guys don't want to take us up on our offer, it's no big deal. We'll just focus our time on some other MS6 products that you guys are eagerly awaiting (drinks)


Jordan

 

[Insignificant]

No, the $1100 exhaust will have a proper y-transition into a dual outlet.

We considered just grafting on a second pipe onto our existing catback, and this is why we originally said the dual exhaust would only cost $150-$200 more than the single exhaust. It seems that there are a handful of people here who want a dual exhaust, but pleasing everyone, or enough people to justify the effort, is nearly impossible.

First we wanted to graft on a new dual outlet section onto our existing dual exhaust because its quick and relatively cheap, but people thought that was a poor way to do it. So then we decided that we would make a proper dual exhaust with a nice y-transition, and now people are saying that the kit is going to be too expensive.

Now we're willing to work with people and make the kit out of 409 stainless steel as opposed to 304 (which means more costly overhead for us), and we're getting people who don't like that idea either. We're still going to come up with a final price on the 409 stainless system, but we're starting to believe that we're fighting a losing battle.

If you do a little looking around, $1100 for a dual catback isn't that unreasonable.

Turbo XS 350Z dual exhaust: $1249

Cobb Legacy GT dual exhaust: $1095

Eisenhaus 335i dual exhaust: $1298

If you guys don't want to take us up on our offer, it's no big deal. We'll just focus our time on some other MS6 products that you guys are eagerly awaiting (drinks)


Jordan

So b/c those guys charge the same it's a good price? Great logic (hand) (rofl)

 

[www.cp-e.com]

So b/c those guys charge the same it's a good price? Great logic (hand) (rofl)

I think if you re-read my posts you'll see that's clearly not what we're all about. But I do appreciate your feedback.


Jordan

 

[chiefmg]

Personally I'm getting tired of all the people who are slamming this system. Think it's too expensive? Not going to buy one? That's great, now STFU!

If cp-e were trying to make a great deal of money, don't you think they would be charging more for their EMS? Now that could be a money-maker for them, much more than a dual exhaust system that very few people will purchase. We all know that their products aren't the cheapest, but they are very good for the money.

Jordan has laid it all out for us as far as what is going into the system and why it costs so much. He even did some research and came up with examples of systems for other cars that are similar in price. Instead of being thanked for his time and effort, he gets handed another s*** sandwich.

I am all for expressing one's opinion, but enough is enough. No one is going to change how this exhaust will be priced, so if you aren't truly interested in getting one, please let the information flow unimpeded to those of us who are.

Jordan, since as you said it isn't going to help trying to please everyone, can you give us a bottom line assessment of what needs to happen in order for any dual exhaust from you to come to market? Thanks.

 

[hotrodtrk]

CP-E, why won't mazda admit the problem? I know it will be an issue to start replacing bad turbos. But do they actually think we are so damn stupid to think it's bad gas of some other BS story. I've taken mine in for the second time with no results. My lemon law attorney says strike three and they get their car back. So I'm thinking...lets see, cost trade-off analysis, cheaper to replace one turbo or to buy back my car or give me a new one, my choice according to the lemon law. I just don't get it. Why do these guys like to play games with car nuts when we DO have the connections to figure out what is really wrong, and WE WILL go to great lengths to figure it out no matter what. I got a survey in my email and the two last questions were, would I recommend the dealership to someone and would I recommend that someone purchase a mazda. NOT! unless they step up and do the right thing.