CONTROL ARM factory vs aftermarket

[imola.zhp]

Sorry to bump a somewhat old thread, but better than creating a new one IMO...

I attempted to just replace the dust boots (on top of the ball joint) I broke when I did my wheel bearings about 5-6 months ago...

Those suckers were NOT cheap through my local dealer (should have ordered them online) anyhow, I greased them up and used the axle socket to snap them on top of the ball joint.

However, when I put the hub back on maybe I pushed it too far down onto the ball joint? I thought I put them back where they were when I removed them, but in doing so I basically trashed the new dust boots I had just paid a pretty penny for. Knowing the other bushings and ball joints themselves were probably about done anyway (car had 220,000 then, just rolled 225,000 last week) I just went ahead and put the car back together...

No problems because its been a fairly dry past 5-6 months but now I'm having some noise in the front (popping, etc) and when replacing one of the ouput shaft seals on the transmission yesterday I saw just how bad those dust boots look. Its been a very wet past couple of weeks here in Memphis, so I'm pretty sure the ball joint is probably done...

So the point of my question/post is, when I replace the lower control arms (I'll probably go with the $150 shipped pair off of ebay) how far do I sit the hub onto the ball joint? Is that groove in the ball joint for the bolt behind it? That would be a decent referance point for where it needs to be and if that is the case, I bet I did put the knuckle down too far on the ball joint. If I recall correctly, its been 5-6 months, the ball joint popped up out of the top of the hub/knuckle maybe an 1/8-1/4 of an inch?

Any special tools I'll need for the job?

Thanks for any help, wow, that turned into a book, ha...

I'm still probably a few weeks out from doing this project, but I need to get it done before I start back to school...

 

[slavrenz]

Sorry to bump a somewhat old thread, but better than creating a new one IMO...

I attempted to just replace the dust boots (on top of the ball joint) I broke when I did my wheel bearings about 5-6 months ago...

Those suckers were NOT cheap through my local dealer (should have ordered them online) anyhow, I greased them up and used the axle socket to snap them on top of the ball joint.

However, when I put the hub back on maybe I pushed it too far down onto the ball joint? I thought I put them back where they were when I removed them, but in doing so I basically trashed the new dust boots I had just paid a pretty penny for. Knowing the other bushings and ball joints themselves were probably about done anyway (car had 220,000 then, just rolled 225,000 last week) I just went ahead and put the car back together...

No problems because its been a fairly dry past 5-6 months but now I'm having some noise in the front (popping, etc) and when replacing one of the ouput shaft seals on the transmission yesterday I saw just how bad those dust boots look. Its been a very wet past couple of weeks here in Memphis, so I'm pretty sure the ball joint is probably done...

So the point of my question/post is, when I replace the lower control arms (I'll probably go with the $150 shipped pair off of ebay) how far do I sit the hub onto the ball joint? Is that groove in the ball joint for the bolt behind it? That would be a decent referance point for where it needs to be and if that is the case, I bet I did put the knuckle down too far on the ball joint. If I recall correctly, its been 5-6 months, the ball joint popped up out of the top of the hub/knuckle maybe an 1/8-1/4 of an inch?

Any special tools I'll need for the job?

Thanks for any help, wow, that turned into a book, ha...

I'm still probably a few weeks out from doing this project, but I need to get it done before I start back to school...

That curve in the ball joint stud is what the hub bolt slides past so don't push it past there. As for replacements, Beck/Arnley now makes a replacement arm that you can get on RockAuto for like $75. I know they make some OEM parts for Toyota, so you know they're quality. As for the procedure, I have discovered that if you replace the control arm bolts in the following order it works easiest:

1. Put the rear (vertical) bushing bolt in first!!! If not, you'll never be able to bend the bushing enough to get that bolt into the hole.

2. Put the front (horizontal bushing bolt in next (but don't tighten it).

3. put the ball joint stud in the steering knuckle and tighten everything up.

 

[imola.zhp]

^ thanks for the info and tips!

I checked out rockauto yesterday and had no luck finding anything but control arm bushings...

I'll check again.

Not looking forward to paying for another alignment, but at least it'll just be the front this time...

 

[khaosman]

do NOT buy the ebay control arms. I bought one and after a year it was near complete failure... it had a ton of play in it!

 

[TheMAN]

That curve in the ball joint stud is what the hub bolt slides past so don't push it past there. As for replacements, Beck/Arnley now makes a replacement arm that you can get on RockAuto for like $75. I know they make some OEM parts for Toyota, so you know they're quality. As for the procedure, I have discovered that if you replace the control arm bolts in the following order it works easiest:

1. Put the rear (vertical) bushing bolt in first!!! If not, you'll never be able to bend the bushing enough to get that bolt into the hole.

2. Put the front (horizontal bushing bolt in next (but don't tighten it).

3. put the ball joint stud in the steering knuckle and tighten everything up.

I have a hard time believing they make anything OE for toyota... toyotas use denso and delphi s*** 99% of the time

aftermarket control arms are NOT recommended by me because in all of the ones I've seen, if it comes with ball joints, it's the crappy old fashioned kind with zerk fittings where you have to grease them even during install... they make a mess and are a PITA to deal with since you have to regrease them every 30k or so... and by that time it's a nasty ball of s***

the OEM control arms with ball joints are sealed for life ones that require no maintenance and don't make a mess!

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

the hardrace control arms are hardened rubber.

 

[slavrenz]

I have a hard time believing they make anything OE for toyota... toyotas use denso and delphi s*** 99% of the time

Okay, well they do, so.... See here http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/52404-beck-arnley-parts-quality-good-bad-=-oem.html for just one example.

aftermarket control arms are NOT recommended by me because in all of the ones I've seen, if it comes with ball joints, it's the crappy old fashioned kind with zerk fittings where you have to grease them even during install... they make a mess and are a PITA to deal with since you have to regrease them every 30k or so... and by that time it's a nasty ball of s***

the OEM control arms with ball joints are sealed for life ones that require no maintenance and don't make a mess!

These have no zerk fittings - they're sealed for life, and they carry a 3 year/50,000 mile warranty, which by my count, is at least 3 times better than the warranty Mazda offers on their parts (12 months/12,000 miles).

 

[slavrenz]

^ thanks for the info and tips!

I checked out rockauto yesterday and had no luck finding anything but control arm bushings...

I'll check again.

Not looking forward to paying for another alignment, but at least it'll just be the front this time...

Sorry, for some reason they're only listed in the regular Protege section. Same part number tho, so they should work. I'll contact them this morning and see if they'll add it.

 

[imola.zhp]

^ awesome, thanks for the help!

 

[slavrenz]

I have a hard time believing they make anything OE for toyota... toyotas use denso and delphi s*** 99% of the time

aftermarket control arms are NOT recommended by me because in all of the ones I've seen, if it comes with ball joints, it's the crappy old fashioned kind with zerk fittings where you have to grease them even during install... they make a mess and are a PITA to deal with since you have to regrease them every 30k or so... and by that time it's a nasty ball of s***

the OEM control arms with ball joints are sealed for life ones that require no maintenance and don't make a mess!

They're also poorly designed because the ball joint is not replaceable separately. In my opinion, there is no reason for this other than the greed, or laziness on the drawing board, especially given that earlier generation Proteges did have serviceable ball joints, IIRC.

 

[McBadass]

I have to say (eekfu) to mazda for not making a replaceable ball joint... seems ******* retarded. My bro's a mechanic and says there is still a way to replace only the ball joint tho.... I only caught the just but it was basically put a new boot on it with new grease (seems cheap (cabpatch))

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

that doesn't sound good..

the ball joint needing replacement is because of the excessive movement within the control arm. if you press the joint out, it ***** up the Control arm. they aren't serviceable, and i fail to see that replacing grease and a boot will fix this issue.

 

[TheMAN]

one thing people always forget... when the ball joint wears out, so does other parts like BUSHINGS

 

[jonridinhi]

I agree. ifd you are going to do it...DO IT RIGHT. I replaced mine the right way about three years ago and not an ounce of problem out of them to this day. No play nothing.

 

[slavrenz]

one thing people always forget... when the ball joint wears out, so does other parts like BUSHINGS

And when you get that new control arm with the new bushings on, and two weeks later a rock flies up a cuts your new dust boot, you drive around for a few weeks without noticing, and then you figure out that all your grease has leaked out and road crap has f-ed up the ball joint.

So you call up Mazda and they won't warranty the part because it was not a manufacturing defect, so then I guess you're just sh*t outta luck for $250, because Mazda didn't make the ball joints replaceable.

I apologize that it sounds like I'm attacking your responses, because I respect you and the great deal of knowledge that you have on all that is Mazda. I just have no sympathy for Mazda in this regard - and I stand by my opinion that their design of non-serviceable ball joints is greed and laziness, and nothing else.

Now what would really be something is if some aftermarket parts company wanted to invest the time and effort to develop a control arm with replaceable ball joints. They'd make a killing

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

i agreee. that's one in a million though... those dust boots are hard to **** up.. but hardrace has the control arm w/ hardened rubber. so i'm sure it's a lot different.

 

[slavrenz]

i agreee. that's one in a million though... those dust boots are hard to **** up.. but hardrace has the control arm w/ hardened rubber. so i'm sure it's a lot different.

It happened to me on the Chevy S-10 I used to drive. Only I didn't catch it until the ball joint failed. This also happened to a friend of mine on her 2007 Pontiac G6 not too many months ago. The problem is exacerbated if u drive on gravel roads like she does.

I'm not saying that this happens to people on a regular basis, I'm just trying to make a point that Mazda was not doing us a favor by making our ball joints non-replaceable so that we would pay attention to our worn bushings at the same time.

 

[McBadass]

Ya ball joint is fine, juSt had to swap engine hence take apart Axel. All I need is to keep dirt out of it, so replacing boot And grease would be fine

 

[justanothermp5]

so where would u buy these hardrace control arms?

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

so where would u buy these hardrace control arms?

go to the hardrace website. get the email addy and email them telling them what you want. they'll reply asking you to paypal them XXX.XX dollars. they'll send it to you.