Component Tweeter Mount Idea!

every shop you talked to is a dumbass... Here's another tricky part. Figuring out if the sales guys actually know their s***, or if they know stuff to make themselves seem smart. The best way to figure for yourself is once you find the speakers you want, mount the mid, then 2-sided tape the tweet where you want to try it. Leave it there for a bit, then move it aroudn 'til you find a "sweet spot"

There are 2 major bad thigns about high-mounted tweets. for one, they're quite separated form your mids that way. Most components ideally want ot be within 8" of eachother. The other concern isthat the distace from them to your ear is drastically different left to right. WHen mounted in the doors, they're both farther away, and both closer to the same distance away. Put them in the kick panels, and the difference is very slight. This assures that sounds will arrive at both ears at very close to the same time. Another thing with bright high tweets is that they'll bounce off of the glass of your windows and potentially do strange things. But yes, ideally I'd just do the tape and see method...

Strange VERY strange that quarts seemed to have more midbass kick than Bostons... I'd venture to guess there's something not right in that equation. The only thing I've ever heared ppl not like about bostons is they claim that they're too midbassy. I for one really like that kind of sound. but *shrug* Try to get an earful of some Focals as well. (pronounced "FoH-kahl") especially the K2's. And really bass kick does you nothing. That's what you'll be getting a good sub to cover. Ideally you should try to listen to them amplified similar to what your'e gonna run, and crossed over at 80-100hz highpass since this is ultimately how you'll be running them. If going between diff shops, try to use similar amps and get the deck settings all flat. In the end, it IS all up to your ears, and that's why we say to go listen, but for the qualities you seem to be liking, your speaker choice just seems reversed. I've nevermuch cared for quarts. Too bright and tingy with the highs.

caps=debated, but seemingly worthless. I think the expert on this would be wakey. He runs like 4KW no caps. actually no nothing. just get or make a gorundwire kit. PM 1stmp3 or check the how-to. 1sty's kits are a bit more thourough, though. The grounding should help, howmuch power you plannign to run total? servo's right about the sub power thing. get one that'll fit your amp output well otherwise you'll be left sounding weak (sometimes less power is fine, they're generally "softer" suspenson so they move as much with less power if that makes sense. THe appeal of higher power is it's generally more controlled (and, yes, usually there's a bit more excursion involved)
 
Last edited:
ogilybogil said:
Every shop I talked to said that the best place to mount the tweeters was up high, and just not have the tweeters set up too flat. I guess that makes them sound harsher, and hit more high notes? I get so much contradicting info, it's so hard to decide what to do. I do know the BA's were set up flat, without adjusting them much. The Quartz just sounded fuller. They had more mid bass kick to them. You could really feel the difference. Does a capacitor help with the dimming at all? Is it a good idea for a sub?
Jeff

most shops will mount the tweeters up high for the show off qualities and the increase in volume. however whether or not the shop knows how to properly set them up when they are up high like that is a different story. if you can find a shop that has an installer that has competed or still competes in sound quality, go there and have that installer build it for you. chances are you are going to pay more, but it will be worth it in the long run.

as for caps, well the horse has been beaten to death many many times on that debate. bottom line is that *if* they do help, it's only for maybe 1/10 of a second. interesting enough, i will be testing out a batcap 400, which claims to be far superior to regular capacitors. i've got a huge class D amp and i have a huge class A/B amp, and i have the testing equipment to determine if they batcap will help in the output of the amps. but if it works, don't buy a batcap with their name on it. i can get the EXACT same thing for about half the price.
 
i also disagree with the high mounting, its really hard to acheive an accurate soundstage that way. will it raise your soundstage? yes it will. but thats about the only upside, the downside is now the pathlengths between the twees is as about as far off as it can be meaning everything will be extremly left side balanced without any major time dealay (wich time delay will destroy the sound stage for the passenger) the other downfall is to far seperation from the mid. youlle notice it in female vocals. it will seem as if the womens mouth has gotten extremly large going from floor to the glass. it won't be pinpoint, (granted some of your wifes and girlfriens may have mouths like this, or sound that way anyway.) i try to keep the mid as close to the tweet as possible. so generally down in the kicks. your ears are allot more sensative to left and right images versus up and down images this is why your ears are on either side of your head and not up and down on your chin and forehead.


as for mb quarts, im kind of partial of them myself. ive been running their speakers for the last 8 years. in competition and in my daily driver. when properly installed the tweeters won't be harsh at all. in an improper installation they will be. as in anything dealing with car audio installation will have 80% to do with how good it will sound. put the best product in the world in a poor installation and it will sound like junk.


as for caps. i say stay away from them. when they originally got popular it was used in sq cars during competition to keep the bass from dropping off during testing. now somehow people assume they are miracle workers for their bass machines, when thats really not what the intention was.
 
use the mouting for the tweet that mazda did. you can order the little side panels that go in the door for like 10 bucks each you can cut them and put the tweets on an angle. thats what I did. Idealy you would want your tweets pointing at the front window so it bounces back at your ears.
 
Ok folks,
So I'm gonna go listen to some more bostons today, I know those were flat and the quarts were probably not, so I will get the guy to flatten the quartz to compare. Every shop is so damn biased, they make themselves seem like such sleezes. I can see why some people get so overwhelmed they just give up and buy from one store. So, are the kick panels that much better to make it worthwhile, or will the door locations suffice? I will try to find a place to hear the focals. OK, so now what would be the IDEAL two channel amp to power the boston's and the Quartz. I want to do this right, so I am willing to spend the extra money to properly power my 500 dollar speakers, ya know? I want the best value for the power and sound quality, not neccesarily the very best amp. Again, thanks to all the dudes with the info :)
Jeff
 
You're still running the stock deck, right? this is where it might get a bit tricky. Aftermarket decks generally have crossovers built in, but lacking that, YOu'll need an amp with a high pass crossover (preferably adjsutable) I'd initially recommend an eclipse, but their best option (PA 4212 at 130wx2) does NOT have a high-pass crossover option. This leaves you with alpine and JL as your better bets. The Alpine mrv-T420 will give you a nice clean 110wrms per channel. With a high pass crossover. The JL 300/2 will give you 150w. There's other options out there I'm sure, but those are the surefire performers I'm familiar with. The eclipse is a sweet deal and super clean. if only they made a built in highpass. Aside from that, I'm not too familair with pricing, but I'd say the alpine and JL are similar, and possibly a bit spendy as well.

And yea, I HATE talking to sales guys. I generally go in with my disc, and try to slide into a demo room and do everything myself if at all possible. WHen they do approach hit them immediately with the serious questions like what amps are running, how are the crossovers setup (on amp and on speaker) and if a subs running and ifso how to shut it off, then see what happens. Usually they'll not know and leave you alone more or less. if they're cool, they'll talk real with you. but that's rare.
 
Last edited:
Ahhh!
(dunno)
Well, I listened to some Focal K2's. They were the best yet. However, I would really prefer to by them from a local shop so I can get some help in case I have problems. Im gonna do a search on the Arc speakers, but in the mean time what do you think? They were the top of the line 6.5 compononts, priced originally at 600 or 700, marked down to 350. I heard them before the Focals, they sounded good. Great for the price. But then I heard the Focals. I just dont know anymore. Thnks in advance,
JEff
 
I'm a big fan of focals. Very nice stuff. but the K2's are fairly new and unlikely to be marked down anytime soon. NO experience with Arc's here, but I also think you should try some Bostons again. From everyhting I've heared sofar your tastes seem to be similar. perhaps you had a weird pair or something funky the first time around? I know that for the new ones they changed the tweeters, but it shouldn't be that dramatically different of a sound form their old pro's which I'm hopefully picking up soon if I cna get my amp worked out.
 
With Bostons, especially the Pros and Zs, it'll depend on how much power you're sending them. at least 100W from the amp that you test them on, is a good idea...that's when their midbass fills in. Crazy, huh?
 
I'm totally with sndsgood about the proproper installation thing...it's at least 80% of the job. With that said, some budget ideas to consider are the Memphis M-Class, Boston Rally's, the JL VR comps, the Focal polyglass comps, and maybe even Infinity Perfects or Kappa comps...More middle of the road. But don't let those idiots at those shops persuade you, just let your ears decide.

As for 2 channel amps, I also like the Eclipse line. The 4212 is a 2 channel sub amp, but I believe the 33250 is full range with active HP crossover...unless you have a HU for the adjustments. The Alpine MRV-T420 can be had for $219 @ onlinecarstereo.com. I would also consider PPI because of their construction and they are pretty user friendly. Also check out Avionixx made by ED.

You might also consider getting a 4 channel and biamping (i.e. running seperate channels for the mid and the tweet).... This would give you even more control over the sound.

There are just tooooo damn many options out there. So take your time and have a goal and a budget to keep you on track.
 
ogilybogil said:
Hello everybody, long time reader, first time poster :)

Well, I have been getting friendly with my Search function on the forum and have gone from almost no knowledge of car stereos, to well, not sure where is stand. So much info on this forum.

MY QUESTION IS:
I want to mount the tweeters to get the best possible sound stage, so I guess the stock placement is a bad idea. I dont want to cut the door, and make anything look unstock. I was thinking, why isn't there room to mount the tweeters inside the door maybe, where some folks have stuck the crossovers, and drill small holes in front of it (like the stock door speaker holes) for the sound to pass through? Maybe even next to the speakers if there is room on the MDF? That way you wouldnt have to drill any holes. Any ideas why this would/wouldn't work? Any advice on the setup would be great, too!
Here is the rest of the system im planning.
First, 6.5" Componant speakers, probably JL 650 XR right now. Sounded better than Infinity Kappas, and Eclipses.
A Dave Navone LOC, as to keep the stock head unit.
A 2 channel amp, not sure exactly what I need/want, havent gotten that far yet...
Im keeping the stock speakers in the back.
An Infinity Bass link for the bass. Was quite impressed with how hard and clean it hits at Circuit City today. I listen to mostly rock (tool) and reggea (sublime) but when I put in the Chronic 2001, it bumped. Small size is huge advantage, as I need the room for cycling/snowboarding.

Jeff
Disclaimer:
I have not read anything but this post :D

Typicly for the best sound stage compeditor have been moving toward using 2 sets of tweeters. One up high and VERY percisly aimed and tuned. They usualy are crossed over at 8000 hz and up. Then another tweeter is placed by the mid of a component set. In this setup the component is typicly bandpasses at around 70hz-8000hz. This way the bulk of the music is localised and the tweeter placed up high (called an ambient) is set with very low volume and only acts to trick the ear and raise the stage.

The best staging car I have ever heard had this setup with Image dynamic components and tweeters. However another car that was alll but equal had everything in the kcik panels. This proves that the best results are gained by tuning and trial and error. It takes a hell of a long time to get this stuff right.

Now that being said, like most of us I doubt you can obtain that level of percision or have that much time to donate to the cause. The pros spend months on it. In the real world that we all dwell, I find it best to take atleast a day and just play around with postions. Stick the tweeters up high and listen. Then bring them down by the components. Move them in relation to the commonents. Put them lower, higher, more to the front, more to the rear, ect. Try them by the mirror, on the a pillar or even lower. Keep angles in mind aswell. even 10 degrees can make a world of difference.

In short, experiment. It is the only way to tune your components for your car to your ear :D
 
servoeyes said:
The problem with the ED 10o, is that you need at least 400W RMS...with the K or the 8a, 250-300 is fine.

As for the quarts...they sound very full on the soundboard, but too harsh for my ears. I knew that if I put them in the car, with my amp, my ears would bleed. That's another key...the amp that you listen to them on. My amp is very transparent...so if I listen to JL VRs they sound more trebley than on a lot of other amps. I do like having midrange response, and the Quarts may be a good fit for your ear. Try not to mount the tweet too high up, though...the tweets on quarts can be extremely biting. Our very own 1st MP3, if I recall correctly, had quarts with the tweets up high and did some damage to his ears. Now his taste is closer to mine....but even more mellow. :)
Yes, my left hear is partaily shot from being dumb enough to put a Quart tweeter in the factory location of a 97 integra and I powered it from an ALpine MRV-F505.....BRIDGED!
So it was ruffly 200 watts RMS per component. Not a good idea with a VERy bright and high dispersion tweeter what is only a foot from your ear.
 
generally if you go with two tweeter method, its after allot of trial and error and there is no other way get the stage raised. this as well takes allot of time to get right because with soundstaging, the more speakers you have the harder it is to acheive, youlle notice that the guys at the very top of the sound quality arena, rarely use more then 6 speakers, 2 tweeters 2 mids and 2 subs. but at the same time they guys usually spend more money then we have to acheive it. i wouldnt buy extra tweeters for up high until you have tried everything else possible. something as simple as putting some sound absorbing material under your dash can drastically change the sound. in the car there are tons of things you can do that have nothing to do with speakers, that will affect the sound.

as far as wich speaker to choose, youve tested allot of nice brands, and honestly with work you could get any of them to sound great.
 
I got iT!

Well, just in case anybody cares...
I went with the Arc Audio ACS 265 component speakers. They had them on the board right next to the MB premuim,and they kicked ass. I think I will go with the Arc audio 2100 series amp also, 2 x 100 watts at 4 ohms. As for the LOC, my car stereo expert said that the David Navone one's are NOT the way to go. What do you guys think?
Jeff
 
I like how Leebanger did his install. Although I haven't listened to his set up, he uses ambient tweeter up high (Boston Neo 5Ts I think) and then the Boston Z series in the doors. I am sure that system sounds NICE!
 
ogilybogil said:
Well, just in case anybody cares...
I went with the Arc Audio ACS 265 component speakers. They had them on the board right next to the MB premuim,and they kicked ass. I think I will go with the Arc audio 2100 series amp also, 2 x 100 watts at 4 ohms. As for the LOC, my car stereo expert said that the David Navone one's are NOT the way to go. What do you guys think?
Jeff
Cool man. Just curious how the Arc's compared to the MBQ's and why you thought they kicked ass?? How did they compare in price?
 
ogilybogil said:
Well, just in case anybody cares...
I went with the Arc Audio ACS 265 component speakers. They had them on the board right next to the MB premuim,and they kicked ass. I think I will go with the Arc audio 2100 series amp also, 2 x 100 watts at 4 ohms. As for the LOC, my car stereo expert said that the David Navone one's are NOT the way to go. What do you guys think?
Jeff
He said what?! Wow...I'm interested to hear why he said that the Navone ones are not the way to go. What exactly did he suggest?

--edit--
BTW...ARC makes some serious stuff. The comps you bought are made in the same factory as all the crazy high-end Rainbow stuff.
 
servoeyes said:
He said what?! Wow...I'm interested to hear why he said that the Navone ones are not the way to go. What exactly did he suggest?

lol, i bet he suggested either an aftermarket HU that he was trying to sell, or one of the LOC's he sells(dunno) but i've used the cheap LOC's from dave, and a $30 one, as well as about 4 other makes, and i can say without a doubt that the $30 one was by far the best build and best quality parts. you really couldn't tell it was a stock deck running through an LOC. course if there are plans to upgrade HU's in the future, then i wouldn't spend a lot on an LOC.
 
FoxPro5 said:
Cool man. Just curious how the Arc's compared to the MBQ's and why you thought they kicked ass?? How did they compare in price?

Well, They had the Arcs and the Premiums right next to each other. The Premiums had a lot of blurring it sounded like, the highs were not nearly as clear as the arcs were, and the mids kinda melted together. It was no comparison actually. They were on sale for $350, too, while the Premiums were $450. I also listened to the $800 rainbow speaker, but the vocals were a little too seperated from the thumping mid bass. I am really happy with my decision. I wasnt sure what to do, but when i heard them compared, on the same amp and headunit, it was killer. He recommended an LOC that they sold, cant recall the name, it was like 80 bucks and had a 4 volt output. Im gonna go with the DAve Navone one, seems to be the consensus. Are the N-774 the best LOCs that dave makes? they are on special right now, 35 bones. Seems like a great deal. Just need a couple more weeks paychecks, and the sub and sub amp come next. I have decided the best way to go is a fiberglass box. Do you think the ed8a will bump enough, or should i just go for the 10 inch since im gonna spend all the time on a box?
 

New Threads and Articles

Back