Comparing our 2.0L engine to a Honda 1.8L engine

[GRMYSZN]

Just thinking about something while I was on the crapper and reading SCC, I was looking at the engine sizes and power output on some of the Honda engines, specifically the on in the Type-R. Now that is a 1.8L I4 with and compression ratio of 10.6:1 putting out 195hp at the crank, then there is the GS-R engine with is slightly smaller but still at 1.8L making 170hp with 10.0:1 compression ratio. Now we have a 2.0L engine at 9.1:1 compression ratio making 130hp. Now I could only assume that the only thing accounting for the power difference would be the different compression ratios between the engines.

My question is, if I were to get some higher compression heads and go turbo as well, could I expect a lot better power gains, of course assuming that the car were tuned properly. Which brings me into the next question being would it be a lot harder to tune and engine with a turbo at that high of a compression?

 

[mp3moose]

Its tuned high compression and vtec cam lobes that make the difference. Among other things.

 

[mp3moose]

Also, high compression and boost don't mix. Thats a recipe for boom.

 

[mp3moose]

One more thing, if your thinking high compression, don't mill the head. Just get pistons.

 

[GRMYSZN]

Also, high compression and boost don't mix. Thats a recipe for boom.

I've heard that, but in the same breathe I've heard that's if it's not tuned correctly.

 

[GRMYSZN]

One more thing, if your thinking high compression, don't mill the head. Just get pistons.

That's the route I was thinking anyway, I'm not a fan of shortcuts.

 

[insanoman2005]

higher compression heads?? you mean high compression pistons? or milling the head to raise compression?

I blame our ECU, the bore and stroke, rod tensile strength, valve train and intake manifold design.

HOWEVER, the trade off is that those honda motors you're quoting make NO torque. Our 2.0Ls are very torquey. You don't have to wind out a protege motor to make it roll.

 

[mp3moose]

It is possible to run tuned high compression, some honda kids do it. But it would only allow a low boost application ie around 7psi. It just makes more since to attain more power to run low compression and more boost. Honda motors also rev higher because they can stand the load allowing more power when the fun cam kicks in.

 

[GRMYSZN]

higher compression heads?? you mean high compression pistons? or milling the head to raise compression?

I blame our ECU, the bore and stroke, rod tensile strength, valve train and intake manifold design.

HOWEVER, the trade off is that those honda motors you're quoting make NO torque. Our 2.0Ls are very torquey. You don't have to wind out a protege motor to make it roll.

I meant pistions. I know all about the Honda engine, that was my previous car, that's one of the reasons why I chose the Protege. I just want something in the middel as far as getting as much power out of the engine as possible, without having to do an overly large turbo. Tell me if I am wrong, but I was thinking that if I could run a slightly higher compression, I wouldn't neccessarily need as large of a turbo to get a lot of power.

 

[insanoman2005]

higher compression is going to cause you to have to run premium gas and will cost as much as a typical engien build.

there are other, more reasonable options to you.

for starters. Get a nice set of cams made. Extrude hone port and polish your intake manifold and head, add a full exhaust and then if you get serious the Haltech F10X is GREAT for controlling your fuel curves and really pulling power from your motor.

 

[mp3moose]

Yeah, basically you can spend 4K on a turbo kit or 10K on a high compression turbo setup that makes the same power.

 

[AlaskaP5]

The FZ engine in Japan is running at a higher compression and gets ~165 hp at the crank,,, but like everyone else said, the torque is not as good.

 

[starflare21]

there's a lot in the design of the Type R. the pistons, rods, cams, port & polish in the head, exhaust header, ECU, etc.

different characteristics like a better flowing T/B, cylinder head, intake manifold, exhaust header, etc. all combine to become a great engine (besides the specs like what the bore/stroke might be and some other engine designs). the GSR 1.8 has become their stable horse over the years and they're capable of pumping out massive numbers. the B-series motors however aren't known for torque on the low side so maybe that's something ours may compensate for, LOL.

 

[xelderx]

The FZ engine in Japan is running at a higher compression and gets ~165 hp at the crank,,, but like everyone else said, the torque is not as good.

And the JDM ECU is completely different which accounts for 75% of that.

 

[KpaBap]

The Honda motors are also usually oversquare or exactly square which makes for lower piston speeds and lower torque. On the upside, it makes reaching those 8000rpm a lot easier. Honda heads are also years ahead of the 15-20year old design of the FS-DE, the Honda motors can actually breathe at such high RPM. Enjoy your torque, cause you won't be making anything close to those 100hp/liter without FI on your FS-DE.

 

[starflare21]

It is possible to run tuned high compression, some honda kids do it. But it would only allow a low boost application ie around 7psi. It just makes more since to attain more power to run low compression and more boost. Honda motors also rev higher because they can stand the load allowing more power when the fun cam kicks in.

full dedicated race cars are running a lot more then 7lbs. of course that first phrase is because of it ("race car") but the general conception that it isn't possible and it isn't worth while is proven wrong when you look at how much R&D has gone into tuning these engines. there's tons of variables of course going into them but nevertheless it's being done.

from a streetable standpoint it makes more sense in terms of finances as well as limitations of the experience of the tuner/equipment, longetivity, etc. to run a lower compression because for the most part they wouldn't last very long at that maximum power threshold.

bottom line getting off topic a bit is that honda put extensive amount of effort into designing and fitting in pieces that'll last, even in some of their would-be econo-box lineup models.

 

[Brian MP5T]

My question is, if I were to get some higher compression heads and go turbo as well, could I expect a lot better power gains, of course assuming that the car were tuned properly. Which brings me into the next question being would it be a lot harder to tune and engine with a turbo at that high of a compression?

No but you would be very limited to how much boost you can apply to that High Compression Motor without the risk of detonation unless you change to race fuel or alcohol in an attempt to reduce the threashold.

 

[mp3moose]

^exactly.