cold weather effecting the wiring?

[i8urgti]

If this isn't in the correct section, mods please relocate it. So here in jersey winter is setting in and I think its effecting the wiring of my MS6. What happens is when its about 30 degrees the hand brake light come on then seconds later the [light that comes on when you lose traction] and stays on for about 1-2 miles after initial driving, then goes off and won't come back on. Now what's more strange is the colder it is, longer it stays on. The other day it was 14 degrees (according to onboard thermometer) and its stayed on for about 7-8 miles.

Has anyone else experienced something simular to this? Is there a TSB? This hasn't effected the driving of the car in anyway. The traction control still kicks in when needed, even when the light is steady, if tires slip, it blinks.

 

[tunersteve]

The hand brake light isn't the same light that comes on when TCS is active. The TCS light is the car with squiggly tires.

Sounds to me like you're low on brake fluid. Check that and see, it should cure things.

 

[Guest20182]

Your parking brake could be sticking too. In the cold, I usually just leave the car in gear and parking brake off. My "TSC OFF" light also stays on for a few miles until the car warms up, but that's only when it's 20 degrees or below.

 

[i8urgti]

The hand brake light isn't the same light that comes on when TCS is active. The TCS light is the car with squiggly tires.

Sounds to me like you're low on brake fluid. Check that and see, it should cure things.

I know the lights are different, both of them come on when experiencing this. I will check the fluid, thanks

Your parking brake could be sticking too. In the cold, I usually just leave the car in gear and parking brake off. My "TSC OFF" light also stays on for a few miles until the car warms up, but that's only when it's 20 degrees or below.

Ohh, simular but not same issue

 

[tunersteve]

Hmm, not really sure, but check the obvious stuff, and if you don't have any luck, time to take it to the dealer.

 

[i8urgti]

i will check the fluid tomorrow since i have to do abuot 3 hours of driving tomorrow to get a part. but also a note to add to this is that it was 18 degrees today and the same thing, both lights were on for abuot 6 miles. i pulled into advanced auto parts and turned the car off. come back on, start it up and lights were off and remained off. drove another 3 miles home and nothing.

 

[The Great NY]

no, that isnt isolated to you. this is something that happens typically when the temps are close to or below freezing.

i havent pursued a fix for it, but im thinking it could be a relay possibly sticking from froozen condentsation, but im more inclined to think its possibly the actual fluid causing it.

brake fluid..DOT 3 and 4 have a build that allows it to absorb moisture into the fluid istelf.over time and high miles the fluid s ability to absorb the moisture decreases. so im thinking it may be lil frozen droplets of that moisture caught in the right place at the wrong time, until there is enough heat to break the moisture back down.

have you ever changed you brake fluid.....this hasnt happended to me since i changed my fluid to racing stuff (basically fresh fluid)

but i have personally convinced myself to figure out what causes this when i have a free moment

but it is normal, and nuthin to worry about currently.

 

[i8urgti]

sorry i havent updated this sooner, but i finally got around to attending this issue when i picked up oil for the oil change. the reservoir for the brake fluid appeared low, not empty but was only filled up to the spot where it bottle necks. i grabbed a bottle of penzoil dot 3 brake fluid and topped it off just under the max line and PRESTO! its been four full days and both lights are off.
thanks tunersteve. also a side note, the day before the solution i did some hard braking to see if it would effect the lights. on extreme braking, to the point abs was close to/starting to engage, the (brake) light only would go off for a split second.

one final question, why does everyone think the lights were linked together?

 

[FORZDA 1]

sorry i havent updated this sooner, but i finally got around to attending this issue when i picked up oil for the oil change. the reservoir for the brake fluid appeared low, not empty but was only filled up to the spot where it bottle necks. i grabbed a bottle of penzoil dot 3 brake fluid and topped it off just under the max line and PRESTO! its been four full days and both lights are off.
thanks tunersteve. also a side note, the day before the solution i did some hard braking to see if it would effect the lights. on extreme braking, to the point abs was close to/starting to engage, the (brake) light only would go off for a split second.

one final question, why does everyone think the lights were linked together?

The TCS/DSC all work partially through braking action, so if the fluid is low or empty those systems may fail as well.

 

[i8urgti]

The TCS/DSC all work partially through braking action, so if the fluid is low or empty those systems may fail as well.

well the TCS was still functional, it became activated plenty of times do to road conditions, not the system failing or falting. and the dsc switch also worked properly, i also tested that.

 

[FORZDA 1]

well the TCS was still functional, it became activated plenty of times do to road conditions, not the system failing or falting. and the dsc switch also worked properly, i also tested that.

Yes, they still worked because there was still enough fluid available for them to work. The point is that the brake reservoir level sensor is the only way you or those systems know the fluid is low. If the sensor trips, the lights come on to tell you to check it out. The sensor is not a total quantity sensor, it is simply an on-off switch that closes when the brake fluid level falls below the trip level...

 

[i8urgti]

Yes, they still worked because there was still enough fluid available for them to work. The point is that the brake reservoir level sensor is the only way you or those systems know the fluid is low. If the sensor trips, the lights come on to tell you to check it out. The sensor is not a total quantity sensor, it is simply an on-off switch that closes when the brake fluid level falls below the trip level...

i understand about the sensor that would trip the light for the brake but im not sure why a light that signifies TCS is being activated would also stay steady. thats an electrical system, not blased on fluid.

the manual says when the light is on steady there is failure somewhere in the system and bring for maintenance at a dealership. i want to avoid them at all cost.

 

[FORZDA 1]

i understand about the sensor that would trip the light for the brake but im not sure why a light that signifies TCS is being activated would also stay steady. thats an electrical system, not blased on fluid.

the manual says when the light is on steady there is failure somewhere in the system and bring for maintenance at a dealership. i want to avoid them at all cost.

I'm trying to tell you why the light is on and it seems I'm not very successful. Ok, I'll keep it simple, so the TCS light is on because the brake fluid is low. TCS REQUIRES the brakes for it to function, get it? Ok, now that the brake fluid is LOW, it trips the switch which sends the "ELECTRICAL" signal to the ECU/TCS to turn on the TCS light so you will try and figure out why and fix it (add fluid). How's that?

 

[i8urgti]

I'm trying to tell you why the light is on and it seems I'm not very successful. Ok, I'll keep it simple, so the TCS light is on because the brake fluid is low. TCS REQUIRES the brakes for it to function, get it? Ok, now that the brake fluid is LOW, it trips the switch which sends the "ELECTRICAL" signal to the ECU/TCS to turn on the TCS light so you will try and figure out why and fix it (add fluid). How's that?

No, what you are not successful at is answering my question. I fully understand what has happened, this isn't my first car, nor first car I've worked on.
My question is as follows; Why was the TCS light tripped on (which os a completely electrically controlled system) when the brake fluid is low (which is a mostly mechanical system)? According to the manual, the brake light will come on when the hand brake is engaged or there is an issue with the braking system. The brake light would be a sufficient warning there is an issue that needs to be tended too.

So please do not respond again repeating yourself, I reworded the question at hand.

 

[tunersteve]

No, what you are not successful at is answering my question. I fully understand what has happened, this isn't my first car, nor first car I've worked on.
My question is as follows; Why was the TCS light tripped on (which os a completely electrically controlled system) when the brake fluid is low (which is a mostly mechanical system)? According to the manual, the brake light will come on when the hand brake is engaged or there is an issue with the braking system. The brake light would be a sufficient warning there is an issue that needs to be tended too.

So please do not respond again repeating yourself, I reworded the question at hand.

There may be a sensor that relates low fluid levels to the TCS light. The simple question here is, did you add brake fluid yet? If not, you're not trying to solve it based on recommendations given.

I'm not taking sides here, but if the TCS uses the brakes to control things, it may show a constant on state if something isn't quite right. I'm used to seeing the parking brake light come on if fluid levels are low, but I don't know if this is a related situation or not. Bottom line, check fill/fluid levels and see if it goes away, then come back with results.

 

[dave_PEI]

in my VW tcs and brake lights were and indication of something wrong with the abs....

its deffinatly not cold related cause i've never seen any warning lights on all winter long

 

[FORZDA 1]

No, what you are not successful at is answering my question. I fully understand what has happened, this isn't my first car, nor first car I've worked on.
My question is as follows; Why was the TCS light tripped on (which os a completely electrically controlled system) when the brake fluid is low (which is a mostly mechanical system)? According to the manual, the brake light will come on when the hand brake is engaged or there is an issue with the braking system. The brake light would be a sufficient warning there is an issue that needs to be tended too.

So please do not respond again repeating yourself, I reworded the question at hand.

Oh, I get it now. You're not aware that there is a brake fluid level switch in the brake master cylinder! They have been standard on US cars for several decades now. The Brake light will come on when the handbrake switch is closed obviously, but it will ALSO come on when the brake fluid is low.... The extreme cold weather contributed to the shrinkage of the fluid and it would seem the level was just at the right position to cause the switch to make occasionally. In most cases of low brake fluid the Brake light will come on when stopping quickly, cornering or accelerating hard as the fluid moves around and allows the switch to close. Hopefully this fact helps you understand my previous explanation attempts. There's much more to vehicle operation than is written in a few pages of the owners manual.

Also note that whereas the TCS function is "activated" via electrical signals, they are generated by mechanical means and the system "operates" through the electromechanical FBW (fly-by-wire) throttle and the electromechanical brake pressure pump and subsequently the hydraulic brakes. Hope this helps!(yes)

 

[i8urgti]

There may be a sensor that relates low fluid levels to the TCS light. The simple question here is, did you add brake fluid yet? If not, you're not trying to solve it based on recommendations given.

I'm not taking sides here, but if the TCS uses the brakes to control things, it may show a constant on state if something isn't quite right. I'm used to seeing the parking brake light come on if fluid levels are low, but I don't know if this is a related situation or not. Bottom line, check fill/fluid levels and see if it goes away, then come back with results.

sorry i havent updated this sooner, but i finally got around to attending this issue when i picked up oil for the oil change. the reservoir for the brake fluid appeared low, not empty but was only filled up to the spot where it bottle necks. i grabbed a bottle of penzoil dot 3 brake fluid and topped it off just under the max line and PRESTO! its been four full days and both lights are off.
thanks tunersteve. also a side note, the day before the solution i did some hard braking to see if it would effect the lights. on extreme braking, to the point abs was close to/starting to engage, the (brake) light only would go off for a split second.

one final question, why does everyone think the lights were linked together?

please refer to the quote under your post.

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I'm not taking sides here, but if the TCS uses the brakes to control things, it may show a constant on state if something isn't quite right. I'm used to seeing the parking brake light come on if fluid levels are low, but I don't know if this is a related situation or not.

this answers some of my question

The extreme cold weather contributed to the shrinkage of the fluid and it would seem the level was just at the right position to cause the switch to make occasionally. In most cases of low brake fluid the Brake light will come on when stopping quickly, cornering or accelerating hard as the fluid moves around and allows the switch to close.

this answers why it was not constantly lit up, thank you.

Also note that whereas the TCS function is "activated" via electrical signals, they are generated by mechanical means and the system "operates" through the electromechanical FBW (fly-by-wire) throttle and the electromechanical brake pressure pump and subsequently the hydraulic brakes.

now that is an answer i was looking for. once again thank you

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Oh, I get it now. You're not aware that there is a brake fluid level switch in the brake master cylinder! They have been standard on US cars for several decades now. The Brake light will come on when the handbrake switch is closed obviously, but it will ALSO come on when the brake fluid is low....

every time i start off reading your post i get aggravated because you're giving me answers that feel as if your putting down on my knowledge of cars. which i cannot blame you since you dont know the extent of my knowledge. let me just make it clear that i have my fair share of wrench time on various makes and models of cars. i guess the owners manual refrence made me seem like a noob.

 

[FORZDA 1]

.........every time i start off reading your post i get aggravated because you're giving me answers that feel as if your putting down on my knowledge of cars. which i cannot blame you since you dont know the extent of my knowledge. let me just make it clear that i have my fair share of wrench time on various makes and models of cars. i guess the owners manual refrence made me seem like a noob.

No put-downs intended! I'm pretty straight-forward with most of my posts. Maybe I should use more smiley face emoticons? LOL

 

[i8urgti]

No put-downs intended! I'm pretty straight-forward with most of my posts. Maybe I should use more smiley face emoticons? LOL

i thought the smiley's were for sarcasm lol i wasn't clear enough with my initial question