COBB ATR Discussion thread

[Dano2010]

yeah, I received my link in about 2 days.

 

[Dano2010]

Another log

Here are my latest logs after my PTP CDFP upgrade and I am a bit concerned with a couple of things and wanted to get some input from others.

1) Should I be concerned with the boost onset of 22.xx PSI? I would like to keep it at 20.xx but am having trouble even thought I have reduced the values in my Throttle- Req Load tables.

2) Perhaps of more concern is my 13.3x AFRs in 4th gear during the pulls. I know it has been covered that a 12.5 AFR is ok with DISI but is 13.3 at 19-20 PSI? Also strange that my AFR in 4th with my bad CDFP [logs posted yesterday] was actually better than it is now?? What gives??

Any ideas? Thanks

 

[08cosmic3]

Your WG numbers look more like spark adv. Check to see if you edited the file and mis labelled. If not there is a problem.

 

[Dano2010]

oh only in the last tab. thanks.

thoughts on the other values??

 

[SPEEDYONE]

DANO thats lean for those boost numbers

 

[8.5MS3]

agreed. those afrs are too lean. should target 11.6-11.8.

 

[Dano2010]

I thought so but any ideas why? I am running a PTP pump and my DI pressure is in the 1700-1800 range and the AFR targets are Cobb OTS spec for Stage 2 MSCAI2 +TMIC 93 V1.05

What's funny the day before when I had a stock pump and DI pressure was below 700 my AFRs were fine.

WTF

Edit: I am new to this for sure and am not disputing anything you say, but isn't a 12.xx AFR ok for DISI. I know the guys that have come over from the Subie world are used to targeting AFRs in the 11s but Travis has stated on more than one occasion that 12.xx is fine on DISI due to the cooling effect of DI.

 

[8.5MS3]

I thought so but any ideas why? I am running a PTP pump and my DI pressure is in the 1700-1800 range and the AFR targets are Cobb OTS spec for Stage 2 MSCAI2 +TMIC 93 V1.05

What's funny the day before when I had a stock pump and DI pressure was below 700 my AFRs were fine.

WTF

ots maps work for some, not all. you can tweak the map in atr or get a protune to really make some power.

12.xx is too lean in this motor. I personally believe it has something to do with the 25% airflow discrepency between the intake runners among other things. the car runs pig rich from the factory for a reason...what that is noone knows. but everyone that has tried leaning out has blown.

 

[Dano2010]

ots maps work for some, not all. you can tweak the map in atr or get a protune to really make some power

Interesting. Perhaps I need to perform a MAF calabration to increase fuel at WOT. If my table in ATR is currently set to 11.xx and my O2 is reading 13.xx I am not meeting my AFR target so the only other way I know of to make it woudl be increasing the values in my MAF tables A & B,,, right??

Also, I am new to this for sure and am not disputing anything you say, but isn't a 12.xx AFR ok for DISI. I know the guys that have come over from the Subie world are used to targeting AFRs in the 11s but Travis has stated on more than one occasion that 12.xx is fine on DISI due to the cooling effect of DI. Just Axing

 

[Dano2010]

ots maps work for some, not all. you can tweak the map in atr or get a protune to really make some power.

12.xx is too lean in this motor. I personally believe it has something to do with the 25% airflow discrepency between the intake runners among other things. the car runs pig rich from the factory for a reason...what that is noone knows. but everyone that has tried leaning out has blown.

Ok just read your comment on the 12 AFR and that sounds reasonable to me. Thanks 8.5

 

[Dano2010]

DANO thats lean for those boost numbers

Thanks for the reply..I am trying to figure out why that is now and will post up the solution IF I find one but suspect it will be a MAF calabration. My LTFT and STFT are in the + 10-12 range while in Closed Loop so a MAF calabration to increase fuel and get them closer to 8% will hopefully correct my WOT fueling.

 

[8.5MS3]

Thanks for the reply..I am trying to figure out why that is now and will post up the solution IF I find one but suspect it will be a MAF calabration. My LTFT and STFT are in the + 10-12 range while in Closed Loop so a MAF calabration to increase fuel and get them closer to 8% will hopefully correct my WOT fueling.

get it to 0

 

[Dano2010]

yeah...I spent some time with MAF cal when I had an Injen CAI which was a biatch because it doesn't have straighteners so I got a MSCAI2 and was hoping it would better match Cobbs OTS map. Looks like i'll be doing some MAF calabration work today.

Thanks again 8.5

 

[Dano2010]

ok, I have calibrated my MAF tables and it looks like I'm almost there with only a few instances of 12 afrs but sometimes, the afr is great and at other times it is much richer than the target values, all instances at the same MAF voltage. In the case of a lean afr, I don't need to increase the MAF table value because it is already correct in other runs at that same voltage. I don't get it.

If your already not getting close to the Fuel OL/WOT table values how are you supposed to lean out the target AFR from an OTS map value to 11.6-11.8?

Anybody care to educate my poor brain on this.

 

[MS3Zoom24]

ok, I have calibrated my MAF tables and it looks like I'm almost there with only a few instances of 12 afrs but sometimes, the afr is great and at other times it is much richer than the target values, all instances at the same MAF voltage. In the case of a lean afr, I don't need to increase the MAF table value because it is already correct in other runs at that same voltage. I don't get it.

If your already not getting close to the Fuel OL/WOT table values how are you supposed to lean out the target AFR from an OTS map value to 11.6-11.8?

Anybody care to educate my poor brain on this.

Looks good to me!

you should also log the load to determine what values you are hitting.

Weird though that your wastegate is not registering anything

Did you copy it wrong or are you not having any wastegate??

EDIT: I also didnt see the other logs in the tabs!!!
Again like cosmic said below boost does look a little low for an ots map, but then if you just calibrated your maf for the first time it will be low so then that is ok.

second you should log you load like i said before to know where your at as far as overshooting or close to fuel cut.

third: its a little worrysome in your 3rd to 5th pull in third where you were getting KR around 5k especially since you were not even floored yet

hope this helps a little

 

[08cosmic3]

Boost is low for Stg 2 and drops too fast.

Edit: I only saw the first pull and did not realize there were others.

I have tried to post data logs here but it won't let me up load them, it says invalid file type. I have uploaded them at MSF. What do I need to do to make my files upload?

 

[Dano2010]

Boost is low for Stg 2 and drops too fast.

Edit: I only saw the first pull and did not realize there were others.

I have tried to post data logs here but it won't let me up load them, it says invalid file type. I have uploaded them at MSF. What do I need to do to make my files upload?

They will not load xlsx you need to save them as Excel 97-2003 format.

Thanks for the replies and yes my boost tapers too fast. In the first logs I posted, when my CDFP was toast my boost looked better. The latest logs were recorded while it was wet out so my 3rd gear pull was with lots of throttle modulation so that may explain why 3rd was getting KR?? I got more logs today and will post them up after my night of drinking ;-)

Thanks again!

D

 

[Dano2010]

Looks good to me!

you should also log the load to determine what values you are hitting.

Weird though that your wastegate is not registering anything

Did you copy it wrong or are you not having any wastegate??

EDIT: I also didnt see the other logs in the tabs!!!
Again like cosmic said below boost does look a little low for an ots map, but then if you just calibrated your maf for the first time it will be low so then that is ok.

second you should log you load like i said before to know where your at as far as overshooting or close to fuel cut.

third: its a little worrysome in your 3rd to 5th pull in third where you were getting KR around 5k especially since you were not even floored yet

hope this helps a little

I forgot you could log load!!! that would help GREATELY! My vision gets very myopic at times ;-)

Thanks.

And yes, I have no idea how my WGDC could be 0 and still hit 18PSI. Those logs are correct. I have noticed that a single gear pull acts much different than a multi gear pull. I think the tab you saw was a single 4th gear pull with the highest boost being 18ish. I typically hit 22.19 [Boost-Throttle close for my current map] and sometimes 22.43 [just below fuel cut] , one cell only so just a spike, then settle down to 20 and taper to 16 or 15 which I think is too low. Do you spike that high?

I was hitting Boost-Throttle Close numerous times but never Boost- Throttle cut. It actually looked like the Limit tables are controlling my highest boost numbers and not my Load tables which concerns me.

Could the KR in 3rd be because of throttle modulation due to wheel spin? I never see it for the most part.

Not sure why the other tabs are not showing up, I had 5 I think. Here it is again.

Thanks again guys for the help. I hope to get the current issues ironed out soon and move toward changing my Fuel tables. I think I have over shot my MAF calibration a bit so I am now running rich at times at WOT. I want to get that corrected and move on.

Happy New Year to all!!

 

[08cosmic3]

I spike around 20 to 20.5 and once I hit 21.0. Most of the time in multi gear pulls I will spike around 20 and hold 19's fading into 18's.

Below is a single from today. Pretty consistent 18 psi all the way to 6000 rpm with no drop.

View attachment datalog3.xls

 

[Dano2010]

I like the boost consistency in your log. Could you post one up going WOT around 3K and up?

Are you running an OTS map or is it modified?

I think I may have found the source of my boost trouble. I was looking around at all my vac and boost lines and noticed there was a crack in the back feed on my WG control solenoid. I must have damaged it when I installed my TIP last month. I'll have to order a new one from Mazda next week. I think that would explain how I could log 0% WGDC and still have 18 PSI boost AND explains why my boost doesn't hold to redline. Man I hope that is it!

Thanks for the help and I'll post up my results after I get the new part.