cheap tranny modd???

[TurfBurn]

hmm..is there a way to keep that kinda heat down? and when you are talking about that heat, how do you see that heat?

No.. that's my point... this isn't simple.. this is a HUGE thing... and it takes a lot of design work and planning and reinforcing to do it... again... you need to set and use goals for the car that fit what it is going to be used for... the only way to combat the heat is with very expensive components that can survive it... and we don't have some of those components (like the necessary valve guides) that I know of at this point... not to mention trying to effectively cool all that.. it's more than just a big radiator.. the water passages and flow rates and fluids and oil paths all have to be right.. and I don't know that they are.

The aero alone will be out of reach of anything you are looking to do... realize that takes genuine wind tunnel time to rework the profile of the car to get enough aero so you don't flip the front end.

 

[TurfBurn]

Since the pics aren't sending, I can get a close # by viewing the pic on my cell phone...

4th gear looks like 3900rpm
5th gear looks like 3000rpm

So you have
2nd: 7000
4th: 3900
5th: 3000

And that website says:
2nd: 6900
4th: 3450
5th: 2800

So you obviously don't match that.. yet you are a perfect 500 rpm's off when compared to me.... think that is pretty clear cut there man.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

well i want to set goals, but someone needs to design this stuff.lol. I dont know much about aero, but why are our cars different then other cars, like say the civic and s***..they can run 10s with not TOO much work..and i dunno..i know that i will have a low stance car, i guess i need to work on the design and airflow..i dont have a windtunnel, nor am i going to pay to use one.lol.ill just figure something out...maybe. but prolly not.

No.. that's my point... this isn't simple.. this is a HUGE thing... and it takes a lot of design work and planning and reinforcing to do it... again... you need to set and use goals for the car that fit what it is going to be used for... the only way to combat the heat is with very expensive components that can survive it... and we don't have some of those components (like the necessary valve guides) that I know of at this point... not to mention trying to effectively cool all that.. it's more than just a big radiator.. the water passages and flow rates and fluids and oil paths all have to be right.. and I don't know that they are.

The aero alone will be out of reach of anything you are looking to do... realize that takes genuine wind tunnel time to rework the profile of the car to get enough aero so you don't flip the front end.

 

[Kooldino]

Just wanted to touch on the reverse issue really quick. I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that what I drew arrows to is the reverse gear...

(photo robbed from Steve's trans thread)

It even made sense when I played around with it and engaged it while the trans case was open.

Also, I know Roni blew her 5th gear out, but was still able to drive the car. I don't recall her mentioning that reverse DIDN'T work.

 

[TurfBurn]

well i want to set goals, but someone needs to design this stuff.lol. I dont know much about aero, but why are our cars different then other cars, like say the civic and s***..they can run 10s with not TOO much work..and i dunno..i know that i will have a low stance car, i guess i need to work on the design and airflow..i dont have a windtunnel, nor am i going to pay to use one.lol.ill just figure something out...maybe. but prolly not.

Right.. but my point is to set goals for what you are going to do.. What is your goal... a 10 second car? a good track car? something you plan to drive on the street AT ALL etc.. you need to know what you want to do before you can determine what needs to be done....

Height of the car has NOTHING whatesoever to do with aerodynamic properties of the vehicle and lift coefficients over the length of the body... you can have it scrape the ground and that will not change how much it will lift and certain speeds...

Keep in mind that for the right amount of money I can build and design anything you need.... but unless you've got an extra 50-100K laying around aeroing your car and doing custom internal components and cast parts and full engineering work on it isn't going to happen. People have to be willing to pay and there has to be a demand for products to come about...

I'm more than willing to help and do whatever you need and want... but you have to have something specific in mind and build for that... just wanting an arbitrary 600 horsepower mark doesn't help much... I could easily get your car to hit 600 horse.. but it'll have to be rebuilt every 200 miles, and will probably fail catasrophically from time to time... and it won't drive worth a damn on the street...

Keep in mind a Honda motor rev's higher (easy way to get more horesepower) and has millions of people that want and buy aftermarket for it... and it's been getting tuned for the last 10+ years... an 2.0L Mazda hasn't been getting tuned for more than the last 5 years.... and not much was ever done with the 2.0L probe's and 626's either....

Set out specific goals and what you want to do and how much money you are willing to spend and I can get you to whatever you want.

 

[TurfBurn]

Just wanted to touch on the reverse issue really quick. I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that what I drew arrows to is the reverse gear...

(photo robbed from Steve's trans thread)

It even made sense when I played around with it and engaged it while the trans case was open.

Also, I know Roni blew her 5th gear out, but was still able to drive the car. I don't recall her mentioning that reverse DIDN'T work.

You are correct dana... the reason I wasn't sure if they were locked together or not (5th and reverse) is the shift acuator is on the same rod. That is most definitely reverse you pointed to.

 

[TurfBurn]

You did miss pointing to the 3rd gear for reverse though... that's on the shaft just to the left of the idler gear's shaft... same straight cut teeth.

 

[Kooldino]

Remember.. I told you that my buddy with a stock P5 with ABS (so not using a speedo gear anymoer) runs about 7 mph higher than me at all times... I clock against radar guns as being basically dead on as well... and I check out dead even against my truck as well.

Oh...don't remember reading that. But yeah, reading 7mph too low would be exactly right in the case of 2nd gear, at least. Hmm, I'll have to do some testing against other cars and such.

 

[TurfBurn]

BTW... boosted you could be lucky and our car may have increased aero with high speeds and be just fine.... but unless it's measured i'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and tell you the car isn't going to lift at those speeds... I remember racing down a 70's vette and we got up to 140 and he was just a mess... all over the place floating and losing the car... I was stable as hell... so obviously our aerodynamics are better than that!

 

[Kooldino]

So you have
2nd: 7000
4th: 3900
5th: 3000

And that website says:
2nd: 6900
4th: 3450
5th: 2800

So you obviously don't match that.. yet you are a perfect 500 rpm's off when compared to me.... think that is pretty clear cut there man.

See, but what gets me is that even you're a few hundred rpm higher than the ratios that you're using. So that would mean that even your Sunpro gauge would be inaccurate.

Something's up here.

 

[TurfBurn]

Oh...don't remember reading that. But yeah, reading 7mph too low would be exactly right in the case of 2nd gear, at least. Hmm, I'll have to do some testing against other cars and such.

The problem is your other gears though... they don't match the website you gave... but they do match being an even amount higher than me in all cases. and again I checked with the dealer contact and he verified there are no different ratios for Protege's.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

i see..how about a 10 second car, that can be driven on the street also. tuned with 2 maps, daily driving, and racing. You are very knowledgable, and i wish i understood half of the s*** you are talking about..well i do to understand enough to get by, but not enough to have an ongoing conversation. I want a 10 second protege, without having to rebuild it all the time, and actually not having to rebuild much at all is where i wanna be..(thats good craftsmanship/planning) and it would be nice to possibly go about 160. My buddy in a wrx was taking a highway close to where i live, going roughly 145mph and said he was fine..reasons?

Right.. but my point is to set goals for what you are going to do.. What is your goal... a 10 second car? a good track car? something you plan to drive on the street AT ALL etc.. you need to know what you want to do before you can determine what needs to be done....

Height of the car has NOTHING whatesoever to do with aerodynamic properties of the vehicle and lift coefficients over the length of the body... you can have it scrape the ground and that will not change how much it will lift and certain speeds...

Keep in mind that for the right amount of money I can build and design anything you need.... but unless you've got an extra 50-100K laying around aeroing your car and doing custom internal components and cast parts and full engineering work on it isn't going to happen. People have to be willing to pay and there has to be a demand for products to come about...

I'm more than willing to help and do whatever you need and want... but you have to have something specific in mind and build for that... just wanting an arbitrary 600 horsepower mark doesn't help much... I could easily get your car to hit 600 horse.. but it'll have to be rebuilt every 200 miles, and will probably fail catasrophically from time to time... and it won't drive worth a damn on the street...

Keep in mind a Honda motor rev's higher (easy way to get more horesepower) and has millions of people that want and buy aftermarket for it... and it's been getting tuned for the last 10+ years... an 2.0L Mazda hasn't been getting tuned for more than the last 5 years.... and not much was ever done with the 2.0L probe's and 626's either....

Set out specific goals and what you want to do and how much money you are willing to spend and I can get you to whatever you want.

 

[Kooldino]

You did miss pointing to the 3rd gear for reverse though... that's on the shaft just to the left of the idler gear's shaft... same straight cut teeth.

Do you mean the gear in the "front" of that picture that I pointed to is correct, but the one in the background of the picture is wrong?

If it's not that, then maybe it's the one behind the one in the foreground and off to the left a bit.

I seem to recall that whatever it meshes into is a little higher than the foreground gear, and that shifting it into reverse moves that foreground gear "up" a bit.

OTOH, it's been a couple of months (thank god), so I could be wrong.

 

[TurfBurn]

Do you mean the gear in the "front" of that picture that I pointed to is correct, but the one in the background of the picture is wrong?

If it's not that, then maybe it's the one behind the one in the foreground and off to the left a bit.

I seem to recall that whatever it meshes into is a little higher than the foreground gear, and that shifting it into reverse moves that foreground gear "up" a bit.

OTOH, it's been a couple of months (thank god), so I could be wrong.

No... you were right... but there are 3 locations for reverse.... the idler is locking both shafts together... remember one is an input shaft and the other is an output shaft and big idler gear in front that you pointed to is on a non-connected layshaft... so there are 3 sets of gear teeth for reverse... that's waht I'm saying... and yes going into reverse lifts that gear up into the other ones....

 

[TurfBurn]

i see..how about a 10 second car, that can be driven on the street also. tuned with 2 maps, daily driving, and racing. You are very knowledgable, and i wish i understood half of the s*** you are talking about..well i do to understand enough to get by, but not enough to have an ongoing conversation. I want a 10 second protege, without having to rebuild it all the time, and actually not having to rebuild much at all is where i wanna be..(thats good craftsmanship/planning) and it would be nice to possibly go about 160. My buddy in a wrx was taking a highway close to where i live, going roughly 145mph and said he was fine..reasons?

If you get the car into the mid to high 400's (possibly low 500's) with good traction (use coilovers and swappable rims to widen your front stance would be the cheap/easy way to do it... then just swap to "normal" tires for street use) and drive it well you would be able to do all of the above...

Going 145 in a straight line is one thing.... but doing it stable and being able to maneuver the car is another thing.... frankly anyone who does those kind of speeds on public highways or roads should be shot (myself included) because of the risk and damage it can do to other people and things. but that's just my soapbox....

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

If you get the car into the mid to high 400's (possibly low 500's) with good traction (use coilovers and swappable rims to widen your front stance would be the cheap/easy way to do it... then just swap to "normal" tires for street use) and drive it well you would be able to do all of the above...

Going 145 in a straight line is one thing.... but doing it stable and being able to maneuver the car is another thing.... frankly anyone who does those kind of speeds on public highways or roads should be shot (myself included) because of the risk and damage it can do to other people and things. but that's just my soapbox....

oh i totally agree with you on that one. im just talking about the track.dont worry.

 

[Kooldino]

No... you were right... but there are 3 locations for reverse.... the idler is locking both shafts together... remember one is an input shaft and the other is an output shaft and big idler gear in front that you pointed to is on a non-connected layshaft... so there are 3 sets of gear teeth for reverse... that's waht I'm saying... and yes going into reverse lifts that gear up into the other ones....

Ahh, I see what you're saying. It's all coming back to me (like a bad nightmare). Good call.

 

[Kooldino]

i see..how about a 10 second car, that can be driven on the street also. tuned with 2 maps, daily driving, and racing. You are very knowledgable, and i wish i understood half of the s*** you are talking about..well i do to understand enough to get by, but not enough to have an ongoing conversation. I want a 10 second protege, without having to rebuild it all the time, and actually not having to rebuild much at all is where i wanna be..(thats good craftsmanship/planning) and it would be nice to possibly go about 160. My buddy in a wrx was taking a highway close to where i live, going roughly 145mph and said he was fine..reasons?

I hate to crap in your cheerios, but what you're asking for really isn't attainable (short of spending a few hundred thousand).

You have guys like Turf and I that have dumped boatloads of money, time, engineering, and skill into our cars just to run consistent 13's. The sacrifices you would have to make on a Protege to make it run 10's reliably would be far from the mods you'd want in a daily driven street car.

The fastest 3rd gen Protege I've ever heard of ran maybe mid 11's or so, and it was an all out drag car with a tubular front end, huge slicks, etc.

The fastest streetable Protege I know of is Juan's P5 which runs mid 12's @ 112mph or so. What you're asking for is a full two seconds off of that without sacrificing the streetability. It's just not feasable.

 

[TurfBurn]

I hate to crap in your cheerios, but what you're asking for really isn't attainable (short of spending a few hundred thousand).

You have guys like Turf and I that have dumped boatloads of money, time, engineering, and skill into our cars just to run consistent 13's. The sacrifices you would have to make on a Protege to make it run 10's reliably would be far from the mods you'd want in a daily driven street car.

The fastest 3rd gen Protege I've ever heard of ran maybe mid 11's or so, and it was an all out drag car with a tubular front end, huge slicks, etc.

The fastest streetable Protege I know of is Juan's P5 which runs mid 12's @ 112mph or so. What you're asking for is a full two seconds off of that without sacrificing the streetability. It's just not feasable.

Ahh I thought Juan's did an 11.9 or something and was full interior etc... and was only mid 300 horse... that's where I was putting down him making 10's possibly with a revised front tire set and 450+ horse. Good info dana.

 

[chris]

some of the checking I did is saying that 5th is not reverse.. but I have to look at the insides of a tranmission again... I have pics of my trans up in a how to.. and I should be able to see what I need from there.

sorry , had to go back to work but im back now. thanks and please do that how to because any info can help.