sundevilMP5
Member
but i'm also willing to bet that there's a couple of grand or more that went into tuning the entire engine alone...also roger foo's car probably needs racing fuel to run without knocking...
cheap power combination
- Thread starter blue_hotty
- Start date
sundevilMP5 said:
I would not say a couple of grand but, some money definately went into tuning and as for the racing fuel, Yes, he's running 13.0:1 compression which requires high octane fuel. you can run on 93 octane gas up to 12.5:1 compression ratio.
His car was only an example. I'm not saying that you will do the exact thing to your car.....
Chuck, I understand the point you're trying to make. I prefer an all motor car myself, and appreciate the thought and effort that goes into engineering and building one. Anyone can bolt on a turbo, S/C, or 100 shot and go fast for a relatively small investment. But, unless properly engineered and managed, it might not go fast for long. It's common to spend about the same money, doing either a turbo or N/A at first. But equivalent HP?
To say that one can make an all motor as fast as F/I for the same money is silly. If that were true, the turbo would already be obsolete. Your price break down is only about 3 pages, and $6k short for a decent N/A job that could pull a 10 psi turbo. Heck, a good ECU upgrade with sensors and tuning for N/A would run well into $2k, and that's an absolute necessity for a G3 Pro. Well designed custom cams and head work will run another $3k for anything more than a hack job. Some serious thought has to also go into getting high revs out of the 2.0L's long stroke motor. So add the cost of blueprinting, a custom long rod, short piston combo, with bearings, bolts, wrist pins, lightening the crank, balancing, bore, hone......
Roger's car has probably around $20k of engineering, materials and labor put into it to output what it does. A car that doesn't have to meet SCCA rules like Foo's, could achieve the same results for maybe $7-9k.
That same $7-9k put into a turbo, standalone, some necessary internal mods, and incidentals could be running 14 psi or better. Think N/A can touch that?
The advantage of N/A is not waiting for the spool up, not having a dash full of gages or electronics, simplicity, and total confidence in reliability. It may not be the best bang for the buck, but for me at least, the simplicity is worth it.
This discussion could, and has gone on indefinitely, but to use the HP/$ ratio argument in favor of N/A, just don't cut it. However, smacking someone's boost handily with an equal displacement N/A is priceless.
Peace
To say that one can make an all motor as fast as F/I for the same money is silly. If that were true, the turbo would already be obsolete. Your price break down is only about 3 pages, and $6k short for a decent N/A job that could pull a 10 psi turbo. Heck, a good ECU upgrade with sensors and tuning for N/A would run well into $2k, and that's an absolute necessity for a G3 Pro. Well designed custom cams and head work will run another $3k for anything more than a hack job. Some serious thought has to also go into getting high revs out of the 2.0L's long stroke motor. So add the cost of blueprinting, a custom long rod, short piston combo, with bearings, bolts, wrist pins, lightening the crank, balancing, bore, hone......
Roger's car has probably around $20k of engineering, materials and labor put into it to output what it does. A car that doesn't have to meet SCCA rules like Foo's, could achieve the same results for maybe $7-9k.
That same $7-9k put into a turbo, standalone, some necessary internal mods, and incidentals could be running 14 psi or better. Think N/A can touch that?
The advantage of N/A is not waiting for the spool up, not having a dash full of gages or electronics, simplicity, and total confidence in reliability. It may not be the best bang for the buck, but for me at least, the simplicity is worth it.
This discussion could, and has gone on indefinitely, but to use the HP/$ ratio argument in favor of N/A, just don't cut it. However, smacking someone's boost handily with an equal displacement N/A is priceless.
Peace
MP5s Make Ready
Member
- :
- 2002 Red Protege 5
Hmm how interesting i'm learning alot keep talking....
7
70
And then you can through altitude into that eqation and it's a whole new ball game.
Turbo is king of the hill...
Turbo is king of the hill...
Nicley said Zeus. I have nothing further to add
why not combine the best of both worlds
get a custom crank, titanium rods, a new cam, turbo spec pistons, oversized valves, full port job, ect ect, and then just boost the hell out of the engine, say 16-20 psi or more if you want to see if you can shoot your pistons out the hood of your car
yeah you would have to use race fuel and all, but it would make one hell of a drag car
get a custom crank, titanium rods, a new cam, turbo spec pistons, oversized valves, full port job, ect ect, and then just boost the hell out of the engine, say 16-20 psi or more if you want to see if you can shoot your pistons out the hood of your car
yeah you would have to use race fuel and all, but it would make one hell of a drag car
yllwp5drvr
Member
Re: Re: Re: cheap power combination
Yeah i agree you cant just add the Numbers together if you want a little better accerleration and maybe 2- 8 more h/p go out and but a cone shaped filter from pep boys and if you r gunna add them together you shouldnt be behind the wheel of a p5 (yellowp5)
blynzoo said:
AAACK!!!!! Thank you dc5!!!!! People dont understand that this is not addition. You can't just "add" the HP numbers together. Folks, search "horsepower gains" in dogpile.com and you'll get some articles from universities exlpaining it for you.
And dont feel bad y'all. I've seen people who know everything about everything about a car "add." One of my ex-drivers (drivers know nothing!) took a list of all the improvements to his jaguar roadster and started adding them. Jeez.
Yeah i agree you cant just add the Numbers together if you want a little better accerleration and maybe 2- 8 more h/p go out and but a cone shaped filter from pep boys and if you r gunna add them together you shouldnt be behind the wheel of a p5 (yellowp5)
