Calling all MS3 Owners with smoking Turbos...

[knowledge007]

Hey Knowledge, been a while since we chatted.

So I've gotten in on the GB for the mani, and I'm getting a CS downpipe for Xmas. I'm concerned about opening up the breathing on my turbo, the back end. What's a good plan/series of events to cover my ass? Should I talk with my service guy first about the two parts, he/they are really understanding about mods. He said provided I treat my car like his daughter and don't abuse her and respect her that they and I will have a long and fruitful partnership. Should I be up front about this smoking issue and the board's histories with it, and the seals, and tell him my concerns? How would you play it, from a fellow cool-with-my-dealer relationship standpoint??

I really don't know what to say man, I mean if you and your dealer are cool maybe you should ask them if they would cut you a deal to have them install the exhaust and mani for you? I am not to sure about the Mani part. That is cutting it close if you ask me concerning your warranty. But in any case, the best thing is to chat with them. I don't know how much of a repore you have developed with them but I have purchased 3 mazdas from them in the past and thats not including my parents as well. Not to mention my girlfriend...lol In any case, talking with them will always help.

So lets see if I have this correct, you are going to be replacing only one cat with your straight down pipe? If thats correct I don't think you will see to much smoke even if your seals go bad. I haven't seen or heard yet anyone smoking as bad as I did with my 3" and all the way back. I mean, they thought the car was on fire when they started it to move it in the bay for... I don't even remember what I had taken it in for...lmao I called to see if it was ready and they tell me they are going to replace the turbo.

Good luck, and keep me posted. Would love to hear what the Mani does for you.

 

[Speedy3]

Is it possible to get the list of vehicles affected by manufacture date?

 

[knowledge007]

I have no idea...??? I would call MazdaUSA and ask. But I doubt they will even admit that it is a problem...lmao

 

[Sierra117]

What about Hitachi Warner? If they are the one's saying there is a problem with the turbo, then maybe then can provide some shipping dates, numbers, or such, and we can figure out from there what range of cars are going to be effected. That, or serial numbers on the turbos or such. Of course, based on how our's are mounted, that might be a bit hard to check.

See, this is why we need a damned build date/number database for the Speed3.

 

[funkyman]

Black smoke and black exhaust is common on all turbo cars.No need to change anything if you`re car is doing 14-14.5 1/4 mile and 0-60 in 5.4-5.9 you`re good leave it alone,the dealerships know no more about installing and tuning your turbo mazda,than your back yard pro mechanic.They are full of newbies,trainees and young inexperienced formans,plus USA has never seen a turbo Mazda3 since early 90`s so give it a miss.

 

[Jays07MS3]

Black smoke and black exhaust is common on all turbo cars.No need to change anything if you`re car is doing 14-14.5 1/4 mile and 0-60 in 5.4-5.9 you`re good leave it alone,the dealerships know no more about installing and tuning your turbo mazda,than your back yard pro mechanic.They are full of newbies,trainees and young inexperienced formans,plus USA has never seen a turbo Mazda3 since early 90`s so give it a miss.

The problem these people are having isn't black smoke due to being too rich but white/blue smoke due to burning oil in the exhaust. Thats is not normal on turbo cars. Oil leaking from the turbo seals is not normal.

 

[drledford93]

Does anyone have the info on finding out if our car has a bad turbo, as per above? Just curious...

 

[BluMicaR]

(attn)
I spoke with Jon from CP-E and he said that Hitachi-Warner (the manufacturer of our turbos) had a bad batch of turbos. He said that Hitachi is recalling these turbos which wound up on our cars.

He said its not a normal condition for our cars to smoke!!!

That would explain the new part number Mazda is using for the replacement turbos.

Can someone call/contact Jon from CP-E to confirm this (not doubting you AutoX) and see who he's spoken with at HW? If we can get some kind of /real/ information regarding this bad batch that ended up on MS3s then we're getting somewhere. Provided Jon can confirm this statement, the honus is then on Jon to back it up because that's some serious kind of info. Tracking this down could precisely lead to a batch build-date recall of turbos and if we saw the guys (like Knowledge007) who have had the smoking issue once removing back pressure and catalytics were inside that build date range, it would be confirmed and there's no way MUSA could deny warranty service for bad seals. Since it seems to be now the bad turbos are causing the seals to go once back pressure is removed by freeing up the breathing.

 

[BLACKMS3]

It has nothing to do with back pressure IMO... The issue is either there or it isn't and removing one or more of the cats makes it more prevailent as they aren't there to reduce the polution aspect of the smoke due to burning oil.

 

[absolutamente]

15,000 smoking

I have this problem as well. I've got 15,000 on the clock now, but I first noticed the issue at around 9,000 in a Taco Bell drive through. A guy in an M3 yelled from behind me and I looked back to see thick ass smoke. Ever since that, whenever you just start it or idle after driving hard it smokes profusely. I brought it to a Mazda dealer in the Twin Cities (MN) and they said they could not duplicate the problem. I am bringing it back after Christmas to have them look again. Has anyone else had issues with Mazda refusing the issue or to perform warranty work on it?

 

[AutoXRacer]

Gosh, I hope my 08 doesnt have this problem!!! I havent even picked it up yet! (flame)

So far the only ones that have admited to the smoking isssue are 2007s...

Since it seems to be now the bad turbos are causing the seals to go once back pressure is removed by freeing up the breathing.

From my preliminary research, even if you have a stock exhaust, you could still be leaking oil in your turbo... It has nothing to do with the exhaust. Remember, the two cats the MS3 has takes care of the smoke by burning it all off... The oil leaking is still going to happen with the factory setup...its just the two cats burn it off... Overtime, I suspect your O2 sensor and cats to fail...

The factory setup is masking (covering up) the smoking problem!!!

Tracking this down could precisely lead to a batch build-date recall of turbos and if we saw the guys (like Knowledge007) who have had the smoking issue once removing back pressure and catalytics were inside that build date range, it would be confirmed and there's no way MUSA could deny warranty service for bad seals. Since it seems to be now the bad turbos are causing the seals to go once back pressure is removed by freeing up the breathing.

Thats why I wanted to start this thread so we can build a database from the members here to track build dates, mileage, year, etc... So far, my online research on Hitachi-Warner has not yielded anything...

 

[Speedy3]

So far the only ones that have admited to the smoking isssue are 2007s...




From my preliminary research, even if you have a stock exhaust, you could still be leaking oil in your turbo... It has nothing to do with the exhaust. Remember, the two cats the MS3 has takes care of the smoke by burning it all off... The oil leaking is still going to happen with the factory setup...its just the two cats burn it off... Overtime, I suspect your O2 sensor and cats to fail...

The factory setup is masking (covering up) the smoking problem!!!




Thats why I wanted to start this thread so we can build a database from the members here to track build dates, mileage, year, etc... So far, my online research on Hitachi-Warner has not yielded anything...

I somewhat disagree. The cats aren't going to burn up the smoke! If this were true, then why did we have thread after thread of black soot and smoke from running pig rich when this car first came out? The smoke comes from the burning of the oil; this the cats can do. The cats won't get rid of the smoke from the burning oil.

I believe it is all about pressure differential.

 

[cosmic_spd3]

So absolutmente,do u have any exhaust upgrades on your car??i dont think at 9000 mile ur car or any car should be smoking..unless u have excess oil in ur crankcase or u blew a turbo seal,piston rings or valve seals...so try to figure out which one it is..and it all starts at lessening back pressure..
i had an 89 supra stock for about 2yrs no upgrades and until i did my 3"exhaust and bigger turbo i started having smoking issues..i can guaranty 85% of people with no cats and bigger exhaust systems on there cars start smoking at about 500-1000 mile after instillation..

 

[BLACKMS3]

I somewhat disagree. The cats aren't going to burn up the smoke! If this were true, then why did we have thread after thread of black soot and smoke from running pig rich when this car first came out? The smoke comes from the burning of the oil; this the cats can do. The cats won't get rid of the smoke from the burning oil.

I believe it is all about pressure differential.

People have had the issue with stock exhaust... how do you explain that?

My theory is that the issue is occuring with or without aftermarket exhaust and the issue is more noticeable with a catless exhaust. If the issue is bad enough and fouls your cats over time, the issue could show up in stock exhaust systems.... which it has.

 

[knowledge007]

Well I am running a high flow and believe me when I was smoking oh my lord. But anyway, it is not cause by relieving back pressure.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Everyone has to keep in mind that the amount of oil being burnt is small (a few drops worth of oil) and it occurs during idle; with or without factory exhaust (downpipe).
In addition, its not all MS3 that have this issue...so far its a hit or miss thing; if your car has a defective turbo, then you have smoking issues regardless of exhaust setup.
I believe two cats can mask that until the leak becomes worst.

Anyway, all I'm doing is passing on information I've been given by people in the field that work with turbos.

Only time will tell the story...

 

[absolutamente]

The car is still completely stock, although I had been considering a down pipe and catback. I am feeling a little unsure about that decision now, given that it appears I have ran into some of these issues even without freeing up my exhaust flow (if that is even the root cause). I don't want to say that I have driven it hard and put it away wet, I have given it cool down time after hard driving and ran good synthetic oil, but it certainly has seen near track conditions almost daily. Either way, at 15,000 it certainly should not, in my oppinion, be having this type of issue.

 

[knowledge007]

Well it is nothing to worry about. As soon as you can duplicate the smoking at the dealer considering the car is stock, they will be obligated to replace the turbo. Don't sweat it either, it is not going to hurt anything, just the annoying smoke, I know, is scary. But it is nothing to worry about.

 

[3.slow]

I had a remote mount turbo on my truck and the turbo was my exhaust pipe lol. The seal is not affected by the back pressure, but by the oil inside the turbo itself. The only time a turbo leaks oil is when the oil builds up high enough to breach the seals. If oil starts getting backed up in the turbo it can override the seals after a short period. The seals themselves may also be defective rather than the oiling system. Any tiny scratch or imperfection in any seal at such high pressures as they are seeing, oil will indeed leak.

If anyone with a 08 ms3 has had a seal problem please speak up because it appears it is only an 07 problem.

What type of oil are people using? People with leaky seals please let us in on whether you are using the reccomended 5w-30 or going with the ultra thin synthetic oils which are prone to seeping out of everything.

 

[PLM_Man]

People with leaky seals please let us in on whether you are using the reccomended 5w-30 or going with the ultra thin synthetic oils which are prone to seeping out of everything.

I'm far from an oil expert, but wouldn't a 5w-30 conventional oil be as "thin" as a 5w-30 synthetic oil? The theory behind synthetic is that it makes for a better lubrication; the 5w-30 is the oil's thickness and viscosity.

By the way: I have an 07 MS3 with 12k miles using Mobil1 Synthetic for 11k. No smoke or loss of oil at this point in time (knock on wood). Installing a turbo-back later in the Spring so we'll see if any is hiding.

*Edit* Related mods: MS CAI installed within the first 3k miles.