Marietta, GA
(One of the guys working in the service department gave me the contact info. for the custom exhaust. I was the guinea pig for the prototype exhaust so I got the whole system for free.)
Calling all MS3 Owners with smoking Turbos...
- Thread starter AutoXRacer
- Start date
Marietta, GA
(One of the guys working in the service department gave me the contact info. for the custom exhaust. I was the guinea pig for the prototype exhaust so I got the whole system for free.)
AllLostThings
Member
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
Mayeb I should go there then because the local dealership to me area bunch of nice guys and they love my mods but I had soem bad gas give me a CEL and they said I had to put my stock air box back on for them to look at it.
talked to my brotherinlaw at mazda (master tech) and he told me that it all depends on how much oil is leaking if they will do anything.. this turbo leaks as per bad design.. only reason we dont notice it with regular exhaust is that the cat catches it.. this is what Mazda NA told him.. not officially though... he has replaced alot of cx7 turbos for this leaky problem. and another tech at the speed dealer has replaced a few ms3 turbos already..
baby pricing
If it can be accomplished this summer, as I said we are behind schedule . Apparently my car is not our priority. dammit. Seriously If it becomes available you can give me whatever you want. I won't want it back. Right now its working fine. It Is going to be upraded period. Pm me so I will remember you come time
If it can be accomplished this summer, as I said we are behind schedule . Apparently my car is not our priority. dammit. Seriously If it becomes available you can give me whatever you want. I won't want it back. Right now its working fine. It Is going to be upraded period. Pm me so I will remember you come time
john blutarski
Member
- :
- 2004 Subaru WRX STI
I only read the first 17 of 22 pages but I just wanted to throw some thoughts out there that I had...
Has anyone tried switching to a 5w-40 non energy conserving oil like Rotella T? Mobil 1 30 weight is notorious for shearing down to as thin as a 20 weight in under 3k miles in the Subaru community. My oil consumption went from a quart of Mobil 1 in 3000 miles to almost none the next oil change once I switched to Rotella 5w40.
Also, I wonder if the oil is draining fast enough from the turbo in the MS3's design. The oil in turbochargers doesn't need to be high pressure but should be high flow. The seals will leak on any turbo if the drainage is not adequate.
Read this info from Forced Performance if you want more info on the subject:
My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so is one of my seals blown?
A. The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.
The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.
The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.
The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow.
Has anyone tried switching to a 5w-40 non energy conserving oil like Rotella T? Mobil 1 30 weight is notorious for shearing down to as thin as a 20 weight in under 3k miles in the Subaru community. My oil consumption went from a quart of Mobil 1 in 3000 miles to almost none the next oil change once I switched to Rotella 5w40.
Also, I wonder if the oil is draining fast enough from the turbo in the MS3's design. The oil in turbochargers doesn't need to be high pressure but should be high flow. The seals will leak on any turbo if the drainage is not adequate.
Read this info from Forced Performance if you want more info on the subject:
My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so is one of my seals blown?
A. The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals.
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car.
The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings.
The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing.
The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow.
This is great information! Thanks. Anyone look at the drain line on our turbo?
mazdaspeed32007
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed3
never saw it for ive never gotten back there that deep. and also that would explain why our catch cans do more than expected. all we need to do is get some info and a write up on replacing the drainage tube on the turbo....
mazdaspeed32007
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed3
ok so check this...i typed k04 turbo in google and this came up....but is that little nipple the oil drainage? or is it the orange plug thats behind it? im not really awesome at turbos when seeing one and mechanically trying to explain it so......
mazdaspeed32007
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed3
+1 for 5w30 on the mobil 1 syntec...if the weight of the oil was thinner it would drain better no?
orange could be the drain.. small section between the compressor side and exhaust housing side..
yes, but if it gets to thin it will flow right by the seals..
john blutarski
Member
- :
- 2004 Subaru WRX STI
That orange plug should be the oil feed or drain connection. I can't tell. The nipple on the compressor housing is most likely where the boost solenoid connects and then the other will connect to the wastegate actuator. I dont know enough about these cars yet or the boost control system.
As for the thicker oil, its just a suggestion. I'm not sure what problems with oil consumption you guys have but a thicker oil may be worth a try.
I'm sure Mazda would've tested the turbo and the oil flow in and out of it. Things like the location of where it is mounted compared to where its fed and then drains back to the engine need to be considered. Maybe Mazda didn't test it enough or it just is a bad batch.
john blutarski
Member
- :
- 2004 Subaru WRX STI
Shane, in your second pic there, I think the drain tube connection is where that yellow plug is.
Last edited:
john blutarski
Member
- :
- 2004 Subaru WRX STI
I read a lot of comments about people's turbos smoking after sitting and idling for a few minutes
Some more info:
The turbo's oil seals depend upon a positive air pressure inside the compressor and turbine to "push" the oil inside the bearing housing and keep oil from seeping into the outer housings. In an inlet restriction situation, the vacuum wants to "pull" the oil past the oil seals. Prolonged oil leakage into the compressor can lead to oil seal damage and excessive engine smoking.
Prolonged engine idling also can cause turbocharger oil seal failure, this time on the turbine side. Continued idling causes the turbo to rotate without producing boost. Consequently, a vacuum condition on the turbine side tries to "pull" oil past the turbine-side oil seal and into the turbine housing.
link:
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/turboChargerBasics/turboChargerBasics.html
Some more info:
The turbo's oil seals depend upon a positive air pressure inside the compressor and turbine to "push" the oil inside the bearing housing and keep oil from seeping into the outer housings. In an inlet restriction situation, the vacuum wants to "pull" the oil past the oil seals. Prolonged oil leakage into the compressor can lead to oil seal damage and excessive engine smoking.
Prolonged engine idling also can cause turbocharger oil seal failure, this time on the turbine side. Continued idling causes the turbo to rotate without producing boost. Consequently, a vacuum condition on the turbine side tries to "pull" oil past the turbine-side oil seal and into the turbine housing.
link:
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/turboChargerBasics/turboChargerBasics.html
