Broken 3rd gear x 3

[FuLcRuM]

For a high powered STREET car, I'd personally recommend something in the ballpark of:

1-2.8 (41 MPH @ 6500RPM)
2-1.55 (75 MPH @ 6500RPM)
3-1.26 (92 MPH @ 6500RPM)
4-.97 (120 MPH @ 6500RPM)
5-.755 (154 MPH @ 6500RPM)

My calculations assume that you're running a 215/45/17.

Basically, decently longer gears on the low end to help with traction, and marginally longer gears on the top end to help the range of the gearbox. I know my ratios might look odd to some, but for a 300+hp FWD Protege, you really need 1 and 2 to be as long as possible. With that amount of power, you don't have a chance in hell to get traction with a stock gear ratio, and you're going to be spinning tires until 3rd gear. Why not take some mechanical advantage away and trade wheel spin for acceleration?

How about we comprimise some:
1 - 2.8 (41mph@6500)
2 - 1.8 (64mph@6500) I think your 2nd was to tall, RPM drop put us below our TQ curve.
3 - 1.26 (92mph@6500)
4 - 0.97 (119mph@6500)
5 - 0.69 (168mph@6500) I'm running a 0.72 now and love it. A tad lower RPM would be even better.

I agree on taking power from the low gears, 1st is useless, 2nd is ok up to 6lbs on my car (about 225HP @ wheels), 3rd will hold about 8-9lbs and 4th I go all the way to 13 (my Max boost). AVC-R works very well (lol2)

 

[Maxx Mazda]

You know what? Even if the gears stay the same and we drop the final drive (would require eplacing output shaft as well) we could do this...

 

[cityracer]

I'm a probe owner, and will start saving for this upgrade. The only thing holding me back from power tuning my set up has been my fear of not having a reliable trans. Which happened to break third just this last monday... We found this thread pretty quickly after it started.

PS-thanks for the pics Fulcrum. I shared all this with my mechanic who is installing the quaife. We are in final reassembly now. should we be overly concerned about adjusting backlash? Kind of don't have the tools necessary to check this...

 

[gmc]

The standard ratios that we have off the shelf are 3.11, 1.833, 1.24 and 0.9. Final drive ratios stocked are 4.13 and 4.43.

Here are some videos on Youtube of our straight cut gear sets in FWD applications. They will give you a good idea of how loud the straight cut gear sets are from inside and outside the car.

Nissan SR20 FWD synchromesh engagement straight cut gear set.
Inside the car drag racing
From outside the car drag racing
Early 2000 series SR20 FWD synchromesh engagment straight cut gear set in stripped out race car

Nissan SR20 FWD dog engagement straight cut gear set.
Inside the car - driving techniques (including clutchless shifting)

Honda B-Series dog engagement straight cut gear set.
Anthony Dinallo - EG Civic 2007 IDRC Sport compact Finals (0.207, 9.836, 154.65)
Polish FWD Record holder 2007 - runway drag strip (untreated)

I'll ask the obvious question here, but what's the (rough) associated cost on custom ratios? I want custom ratios for 1, 2 and 5. 1 needs to be taller, 2 taller by a hair, and 5 I want to be a granny gear.

On a note to PAR, you should really mass produce and (please) stock a few sets at a time. The Protege community has been waiting a LONG time for an "end all" transmission solution, and it would be beneficial to stock a few sets, as the orders will come pouring in quickly.

Custom ratios are a no-cost option.

We have had these gear sets available since 2005 with the latest revision gear sets in production for the last 24 months and they're a normally stocked item off the shelf. We currently have 50 sets of 3rd/4th synchromesh sets in production in addition to what we have in stock. We're doing performing a stock check later today, after which I'll post up our current stock situation.

I need a 3rd and 4th for my car. Are they billet? How much horsepower can they handle? I will be driving my car daily and dont know which gears to get helical, or straight? Is it neccesary to get the needle bearing conversion for those? what will be the cost shipped to 68152??

All of our products are made from the highest quality billet stock. The needle bearing conversion is an option, we make and stock both std and needle roller versions of all gears.

Shipping to the USA by Postal Courier service is around $120 AUD and around $94 AUD by Air Mail.

You know what? Even if the gears stay the same and we drop the final drive (would require eplacing output shaft as well) we could do this...

We have a number of final drive ratios which will allow you to move all of the ratios around. In addition to this, we can also manufacture a custom final drive ratio set if required.

 

[Kooldino]

How about we comprimise some:
1 - 2.8 (41mph@6500)
2 - 1.8 (64mph@6500) I think your 2nd was to tall, RPM drop put us below our TQ curve.

That's way too short. I'm even considering going for a longer second gear than I previously listed. Second gear is a complete joke in my car. A 1.8 second gear is barely any different than stock, and will still be useless to me.

3 - 1.26 (92mph@6500)
4 - 0.97 (119mph@6500)
5 - 0.69 (168mph@6500) I'm running a 0.72 now and love it. A tad lower RPM would be even better.

I like the punch my car still has in 5th gear. The only way that I'd want a taller-than-stock 5th gear is if I lengthened out 4 as well.

I agree on taking power from the low gears, 1st is useless, 2nd is ok up to 6lbs on my car (about 225HP @ wheels), 3rd will hold about 8-9lbs and 4th I go all the way to 13 (my Max boost). AVC-R works very well (lol2)

Note that with the longer gears, you'll build more boost in the lower gears than you would with stock length gears.

 

[Kooldino]

You know what? Even if the gears stay the same and we drop the final drive (would require eplacing output shaft as well) we could do this...

This is true.

 

[FuLcRuM]

That's way too short. I'm even considering going for a longer second gear than I previously listed. Second gear is a complete joke in my car. A 1.8 second gear is barely any different than stock, and will still be useless to me.

How far up can we take 1st before it starts to lagg to much? 2.5, 2.2? I have no idea. My main problem with going to a taller 2nd is the RPM drop, even the stock setup drops to far. That's why I want to bring 1st up but not move 2nd much. Our redline is 7k in the probe and even shifting there 2nd picks up around 3500, most turbos aren't fully spooled by then.

I like the punch my car still has in 5th gear. The only way that I'd want a taller-than-stock 5th gear is if I lengthened out 4 as well.

Do you guy's normally boost in 5th? It's considered a huge NO NO to boost Probes/Escorts in 5th as they blow even easier then 3rd. Sometimes I'll slowly build a couple pounds if I don't feel like shifting but never shift hard into 5th while accelerating.

Note that with the longer gears, you'll build more boost in the lower gears than you would with stock length gears.

I can build 13 pounds in 2nd now, I use my AVC-R to keep the boost down so I can maintain traction. I do have a smaller turbo though, most Probes use slightly to massivly larger then what I have.

What boost levels do you guy's typically run?

 

[LinuxRacr]

I've been boosting in 5th gear since 2002, and have never blown 5th. Hell, I rarely down shift on the highway to pass it is so good. I have killed 2nd and 4th gear before, but never 5th.

 

[nvmsp]

Ok so let me ask this. I can live with that noise while shiftin it's really not a big deal.

What would need to be modified to run all 1st - 4th straight cut gears?

 

[shane02pro5]

The pricing has been posted previously by shane02pro5. To confirm, the pricing is as follows.

1st~4th synchromesh engagement gear set - $3,420 AUD (special for January)
Includes input shaft, and 1st~4th gears. Double synchronizer 3rd gear & or 4th gear is a no cost option. (4th gear double synchro version is Nil stock)

Optional crown wheel and pinion shaft - $1,210 AUD (special price for January)

Gear set + crown wheel and pinion shaft - $4,230 AUD (special price for January)

3rd/4th synchromesh engagement gears - $1,530 AUD (special price for January)

3rd synchromesh engagement gears - $850 AUD
Double synchromesh & or needle roller versions are a no cost option.

4th synchromesh engagement gears - $850 AUD
Double synchromesh & or needle roller versions are a no cost option.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

According to the Protege FAQ, or stock ratios are:

1st gear
3.307:1
3.454:1
2nd gear
1.842:1
1.833:1
3rd gear
1.310:1
1.310:1
4th gear
0.970:1
0.914:1
5th gear
0.755:1
0.680:1
Final Drive
4.105:1
3.409:1
Reverse
3.166:1
3.454:1
For a high powered STREET car, I'd personally recommend something in the ballpark of:

1-2.8 (41 MPH @ 6500RPM)
2-1.55 (75 MPH @ 6500RPM)
3-1.26 (92 MPH @ 6500RPM)
4-.97 (120 MPH @ 6500RPM)
5-.755 (154 MPH @ 6500RPM)

My calculations assume that you're running a 215/45/17.

Basically, decently longer gears on the low end to help with traction, and marginally longer gears on the top end to help the range of the gearbox. I know my ratios might look odd to some, but for a 300+hp FWD Protege, you really need 1 and 2 to be as long as possible. With that amount of power, you don't have a chance in hell to get traction with a stock gear ratio, and you're going to be spinning tires until 3rd gear. Why not take some mechanical advantage away and trade wheel spin for acceleration?

PS - Here's a nice ratio calculator:
http://www.f-body.org/gears/

i want your calcs for my gears...straight cut 1-4.. and w/e.. i think i can find a way to pull 3500.00....

but..what about time from payment till delivery?

 

[shane02pro5]

It will be a little less in US its around $3100US

 

[FuLcRuM]

Guy's Here is the info I got from Gerard the last time I inquired,

For orders of 10+, we can offer you the following pricing.

1st~4th billet gearset (10+) - $2,700aud
Crownwheel and pinion (10+) - $780aud

If we can all agree on a gearset and get 10 of us, we should be able to get the 1-4 set for less then $2500. I think that is doable

I sent PM's to all 11 people from Probetalk that were interested in these sets to come check out this thread.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

gearset i'll agree on.... using danas' calculations and i want straight cut 1-4

 

[tomt64]

Im from ProbeTalk also and I am definitely interested in 1-4th gearset.
Is there an extra cost for helical gears?
Would anyone know if they would be weaker than a straight cut gear?
Could someone tell me in a nutshell a single compared to double syncromesh gear?

Sorry for the noob questions... our weakest gear is 5th, so I would honestly love to be able to go at a higher speed at the end of 4th gear [120mph+] but still be able to cruise in 5th gear at 65-70mph if possible.

 

[FuLcRuM]

Im from ProbeTalk also and I am definitely interested in 1-4th gearset.
Is there an extra cost for helical gears?
Would anyone know if they would be weaker than a straight cut gear?
Could someone tell me in a nutshell a single compared to double syncromesh gear?

Sorry for the noob questions... our weakest gear is 5th, so I would honestly love to be able to go at a higher speed at the end of 4th gear [120mph+] but still be able to cruise in 5th gear at 65-70mph if possible.

If you go back a couple pages Gerard posted some links of cars with the PAR gears. Honestly the strait cut's are not that bad. Apparently they have done a great deal of work on the tooth profiles.

The cost is the same for strait or helical, also the same for custom ratio's and the dual syncro's.

Helical gears are actually stronger then strait cut, the problem is that the helical gears create a side load (trying to push the shaft out the side of the case), so even with stonger gears if you put enough power down you'll punch the shafts out the side of the case. I've seen pictures of exactly this from the Ausi guy's. Also Gerard mentioned that there helical gears do create some noise, not as much as the straits but more then a factory set. (dunno)

Aparently the Protoge guy's don't have problems with 5th. I wonder if it may have something to do with their shorter input and output shafts (they don't have that last little set of gears we have). In any case they don't break, and offer .75 or .68 fifth, so I think we could get a 1-4 PAR gearset then get ahold of a Protoge .68 fifth for a nice low cruise like we all want. (thumb)

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

yeah i'm feeling along w/ danas calcs.. the whole dual synchros i love. so i want 1-4 straight cuts, dual synchros and danas calcs.. i'll be happy..

 

[FuLcRuM]

Ok, how about these ratios?

1st - 2.8 (43mph @6800)
2nd - 1.65 (73mph)
3rd - 1.26 (96mph)
4th - .96 (126mph)

Again these are using a 4.11 final and 215/45/17 tires. Probes would be a few MPH faster since we run a 225/45/17.

Using these ratio’s if you shift from 1st to 2nd @ 4000RPM you hit 2nd @ 2357RPM if shifting @ 6800 you hit 2nd @ 4007RPM.
This should pickup just before peak TQ in 2nd, and still allows you to hit almost 75mph in 2nd gear.
There is no point in even worrying about 5th since it’s not included, the Protg guys can use their stock .75 5th and us Probe owners can use either the 2.0L .72 or the Protg .68. Just an FYI the Probe GT stock 5th is .795.

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

i think that would probably work pretty well.. a longer 5th would be cool for long drive...lower rpm

Ok, how about these ratios?

1st - 2.8 (43mph @6800)
2nd - 1.65 (73mph)
3rd - 1.26 (96mph)
4th - .96 (126mph)

Again these are using a 4.11 final and 215/45/17 tires. Probes would be a few MPH faster since we run a 225/45/17.

Using these ratios if you shift from 1st to 2nd @ 4000RPM you hit 2nd @ 2357RPM if shifting @ 6800 you hit 2nd @ 4007RPM.
This should pickup just before peak TQ in 2nd, and still allows you to hit almost 75mph in 2nd gear.
There is no point in even worrying about 5th since its not included, the Protg guys can use their stock .75 5th and us Probe owners can use either the 2.0L .72 or the Protg .68. Just an FYI the Probe GT stock 5th is .795.

 

[turbo5dave]

hey

hey im also for pt and if we could do around 2500 im in but has to be able to work with the quaife diff i already have. May take a little bit longer the jan to come up with money due to baby being due end of month.