Bob Lutz: CAFE 35 will increase the cost of GMs by $6000

[TinmanMS6]

Finally managed to find some numbers by manufacturer. They're from 2004, but it's something.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/docs/Summary-Fuel-Economy-Pref-2004.pdf

2004 numbers are on page 7.

No wonder Honda's not sweating CAFE numbers. Their import fleet is at 37.4mpg and their domestic fleet is at 31.1. Hell, their light truck average (24.5 mpg) is pretty close to GM's (28.8 mpg domestic/29.3 mpg import) and Ford's (26.3 mpg domestic/27.7 mpg import) car fleet numbers . No wonder Bob's shitting bricks.

 

[ChopstickHero]

an SUV/truck at 35 mpg? my ass. the hybrid SUV only get like 20mpg. lol

 

[Rogue]

i believe the average of all manufactured cars/trucks/suvs have to average 35mpg. But GM sells alot of trucks, so that hurts their average. Whereas Honda sells mostly cars that get great gas mileage, they're better off.

 

[genericuser]

I never understood the point of SUV's..

Station wagons ftw.

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

Its the "its safer" mentality. and its a trend

 

[TinmanMS6]

i believe the average of all manufactured cars/trucks/suvs have to average 35mpg. But GM sells alot of trucks, so that hurts their average. Whereas Honda sells mostly cars that get great gas mileage, they're better off.

At the moment, a manufacturer's truck fleet barely has to crack 20 mpg to pass CAFE regulations. That is why we have fleets of SUVs all over the roads. Manufacturers saw the loophole and Super-sized all of their wagons.

 

[turbolife]

I never understood the point of SUV's..

Station wagons ftw.

Agreed! Give me an A6 avant over any SUV anyday.

Its the "its safer" mentality. and its a trend

Which is funny, because studies have shown that to be false (not your statement, the thought that they are safer)

 

[CX-7owner]

Agreed! Give me an A6 avant over any SUV anyday.



Which is funny, because studies have shown that to be false (not your statement, the thought that they are safer)

Just on some SUV models that proved to be correct, and just in controlled tests.

 

[jred321]

like people needed another reason not to buy a GM

 

[turbolife]

Just on some SUV models that proved to be correct, and just in controlled tests.

Right. I was talking more real-world accident avoidence, etc, etc...

 

[Raynman]

I never understood the point of SUV's..

Station wagons ftw.

Amen, brother. AWD sportwagons will save us all.

 

[zoomzone]

My observation has been that those who buy inefficient SUVs don't really care about the MPG because they can afford to absorb the cost. What I don't understand is regular blue collar guys who don't make a lot of money insist on driving full size trucks (there's a lot of those people in Oklahoma).

I also have a relative who's always driven chevy tahoe or susburban. They recenlty got a minivan, and they were amazed at how much easier it is to use with their kids, even though I've been telling them that same thing for years. It also gets 25 MPG, instead of 14, like their tahoe.

These people need to drive a car in Europe, and they'll drop their SUVs fast. I filled up a Ford focus in the Netherlands, and it cost me almost $70! And that was almost 2 years ago.

 

[jbiird317]

well its tough to fit 20 sheets of drywall into a sport wagon or sedan...

i have a chevy 2500HD as a second car, i maybe get 15 mpg on the highway, probly 10 mpg around town. I really only drive it when the weather is bad or if I need to haul something, but these gas taxes that you are all suggesting would def be a killer to the average consumer, not to mention most construction companies (or other comp's that require heavy equipment hauling).

 

[jred321]

having a truck as a secondary vehicle is great. it comes in handy a lot. using it as your commuter vehicle is when it doesn't make sense (like both of my parents, 1 envoy 1 silverado, both commute 30 miles each way). if a person can't afford 2 vehicles then on the rare occassion they actually need a truck (construction projects, moving, etc...) they can always either borrow one or rent one. right now people are buying a vehicle that fits what they do 5% of the time and isn't good for the other 95% of the time when they should in fact buy the car that meets their needs 95% of the time

don't contsruction and other companies that actually need trucks for business get subsidies or tax credits or something along those lines? plus they'll just increase their prices since they are, after all, a business

 

[jbiird317]

don't contsruction and other companies that actually need trucks for business get subsidies or tax credits or something along those lines? plus they'll just increase their prices since they are, after all, a business

i cant speak for the subsidies or tax credit because most of the work i have done is just small sub-contracting work, but if they raise the prices of their labor that affects all of us as well.

 

[TinmanMS6]

Yup. As I said earlier, more expensive gas makes virtually all goods and services in this country more expensive. I'm sure some sort of program could be worked out to allow companies to write off gas taxes paid in a year, though, making it not so painful for them, and, consequently, the consumer.

 

[NVP5White]

well its tough to fit 20 sheets of drywall into a sport wagon or sedan...

i have a chevy 2500HD as a second car, i maybe get 15 mpg on the highway, probly 10 mpg around town. I really only drive it when the weather is bad or if I need to haul something, but these gas taxes that you are all suggesting would def be a killer to the average consumer, not to mention most construction companies (or other comp's that require heavy equipment hauling).

This is a valid point; however, you don't need a 2500HD to get through bad weather or to haul stuff (unless what you're hauling is a 40' powerboat, which itself is a MPG disaster).

CAFE was the only politically viable step since it wasnt "new" legislation, rather just an update to existing regulation. And BTW, the Feds took decades to raise it at all...the auto manufactures should have seen this coming since the new MPG is long over due.

Unfortunately, CAFE is not the right answer. I think consumption-based costs are the most direct, fair and effective regulation for all fossil fuels. Gas Guzzler tax increases and a gas tax increase would eventually lead to larger demand for smaller, fuel efficient cars. At that point GM, et al would be more then happy to deliver a cost-competitive small car.

So I see a conflict in the general make-up of todays automotive products. Too many cars are trying to be too many things to the buyer. IMO, I want a car for commuting/shopping/travel which is comfortable and gets good gas mileage. This car DOES NOT have to go 0-60 in 5 seconds, nor pull .90G in the skidpad. If I want a performance or heavy duty utility, I can buy a used vehicle which meets those requirements. Specialization of tools is a known engineering principle used to reduce complexity, and increase efficiency and reliability. The same philosophy can be applied to the auto industry.

Oh wait; it has been applied to the auto industry. Look at Europe in general and Italy specifically. Dont tell me Italians don't love their sports cars, because they do. But they realize a Ferrari should be driven on Sunday and the Smart ForTwo the rest of the week.

 

[Rogue]

can i get a Amen?!

 

[jbiird317]

This is a valid point; however, you don't need a 2500HD to get through bad weather or to haul stuff

but if i dont have the big truck then how will other drivers know how MACHO i am!? haha jk man, I see your point...

I am pretty much what the auto industry is trying to get rid of (performance oriented car and heavy duty truck) and i can understand that. My situation is that Im single so I have a fairly liquid income and then also my commute to work is only about 5 miles, so gas economy isnt something I worry about too much. I know taht this will change over the next few years, but then I would have to re-evaluate my car situation

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

I'll just buy one of these when they come out in the US, although driver fitment might be an issue at 6"4 280lbs