Big Bore Throttle Body

[AnthonyO3]

I was on Corksport.com and i saw that they had a Autoexe Big Bore Throttle Body, the factory throttle body is 55mm and the Autoexe Throttle Body is 60mm. It is around the $500 range. Do you think something like this will give good gains.

 

[ARD MP5]

Go stand alone and get rid of the AFM or MAF or however you wanna abrev it. Then you will definitely see substantial gains from the increased bore.

I'm sure there will be minimal gains as a bolt on.

I don't know, what do you guys think. I'd extrude hone the intake manifold and stuff.

Rishie

 

[AnthonyO3]

Hey Rishie, i dont mean to thread jack my own thread,but i sent the payment for the exhaust via pay pal, but it went through as a e-check, it should clear monday.

 

[Installshield 2]

Go stand alone and get rid of the AFM or MAF or however you wanna abrev it. Then you will definitely see substantial gains from the increased bore.

I'm sure there will be minimal gains as a bolt on.

I don't know, what do you guys think. I'd extrude hone the intake manifold and stuff.

Rishie

Rishie is right, on its own it won't do much...but after some other intake modifications you could see very substantial gains...No single NA mod (although this would work with a turbo as well) will give incredible gains, but a bunch of well researched mods complement each other for very significant gains...

if you have the cash for one, get a set of cams, and an intake (being that increasing TB bore size tends to benefit higher rpm, the AEM SRI would probably be better for breathing) and then the throttle boddy....as Rishie stated engine management not utilizing the MAF would be very beneficial, but the fact of the FS's MAF being on the less restrictive side does not make it a must to still see some decent power...

On the other hands Extruded honed intake manifolds can be very good, or very bad...It is still up in the air on the FS's intake manifold...but on some vehicles it drastically increases turbulence which leads to poor breathing, poor fuel/air swirling, and poor power...On neons it is excellent, on a lot of imports (sentra's, some B and K series Honda's) it actaully hurts power...

 

[ARD MP5]

Good info and good to know. You sound like you've researched it. I won't even question. I guess someone should try it and see if it works. lol. I've already done my part on the whole wheels dilemna and now just dumped a crapload into trying to chart the FS's boostability with proper Engine mgmt.

Peace, Rishie

So who's up for it? If it doesn't work I'll buy it and trade my stock mani since we're boosted.

 

[Installshield 2]

How about this???? ... I will have my intake manifold honed, and port matched, if applicable...if I don't like the results I will send it to you for your Volk's?? Hell I will throw in my Tecnomagnesio's so you have some wheels to get around on...

Or better yet, can I just put some AutoR&D stickers all over my car for a set of bronze TE-37's?...Black P5 with bronze TE-37's and Tein springs....yes please...

Also since you are researching a lot engine controllers...Do you have any insider info on whether AEM will make a EMS plug and play controller for an FS??...please tell me they will...

 

[twizyours]

I want it but I think that is just to much for a throttle body. Especially just a 5mm bigger one. If I could get it for like $380 or $400 I would be very interested.

 

[Installshield 2]

good point, you could probably bore your stock TB 5mm and have a new butterfly machined for less than $500...

 

[Matthew]

i second that motion shield...rishie i will put a goddamn banner on my car with your company if you give me some te37s AND ill give you my konigs

 

[Installshield 2]

ha, yeah man...Rishie you need more representation...the wholesale cost for some Volk's for Matt and I will be peanuts compared to the business we will send your way...Since I am such a decent guy, I will even cover the shipping charges for my wheels to you, Matt's wheels to you, TE-37's to Matt, TE-37's to me and all the various advertisements you send to us...I go to school at Penn State, and there about 43,000 spoiled pricks with shitloads of their parents money to blow on whatever they want...with your ads on my car (damn it i will even put some ads on my girlfriend's 96 Protege DX, she won't want wheels though, she is girly), you won't be able to keep up with the demand for wheels...

 

[mypfizzle]

hey rishie.. why dont u just let me drive your car and ill get u buisness. -=\
the guy contributes alot to this site guys.. help him out when you can.. now put your hands back in your pockets ant put away your will advertise for free volks signs.

 

[Matthew]

lol i wish i could

 

[twilightprotege]

the stock TB can only handle about 2-3mm boring from my very quick calculations....but i could be wrong.

in the world of TB's, 1mm over stock not worth it. 2mm...your choice if the increase in power is worth it, 3mm...you'll make power....

you just have to remember, or even better calculate if it's worth it. bigger TB you'll reduce air speed, but allow more air. it's a trade off just like every mod you do. big TB you'll loose bottom end but gain top.

i would put my money on 3mm over size is about the right TB size for the na and turbo FS's.

 

[Installshield 2]

the stock TB can only handle about 2-3mm boring from my very quick calculations....but i could be wrong.

in the world of TB's, 1mm over stock not worth it. 2mm...your choice if the increase in power is worth it, 3mm...you'll make power....

you just have to remember, or even better calculate if it's worth it. bigger TB you'll reduce air speed, but allow more air. it's a trade off just like every mod you do. big TB you'll loose bottom end but gain top.

i would put my money on 3mm over size is about the right TB size for the na and turbo FS's.

Excellent points...bigger TB for topend breathing, smaller for lots of lowend torque...Torque (actually more of an engine accelerating from a relatively low rpm) loves fast moving air that swirls with fuel effectively...High end power just loves air that can manage to get in there, doesn't matter as much how fast the air is moving...Look at it like runners of an intake manifold. Long runners for lowend pickup, short runners for highend breathing...

and there is definately such thing as too big...My guess on a relatively modified NA FS, 70mm would be as big as the engine could utilize in it's rev range...that is probably the ceiling on the absolute biggest, peaky TB for an FS...On the Pclub, at least 3 times a month some kid would ask "where can I find an 80mm throttle body for my P5?"...this is ignorant, and will yield absolutely nothing...

It is not as neccesary for Turbo applications, in that the TB bore size is more of a benefit of raising the volumetric pressure efficiency of the engine (the ratio of combustion chamber air pressure before piston compression, compared to intake manifold air pressure...this is rarely %100 in any NA engine in anything south of a $5 million F1 engine, and in some cases those engines use turbo's as well)...A turbo can raise that ratio to nearly %100 pretty easily if setup properly, with the stock throttle body...bigger TB's can make a decent difference, but the need isn't as great as for a high revving NA engine...

 

[perfworks]

Go stand alone and get rid of the AFM or MAF or however you wanna abrev it. Then you will definitely see substantial gains from the increased bore.

I'm sure there will be minimal gains as a bolt on.

I don't know, what do you guys think. I'd extrude hone the intake manifold and stuff.

Rishie

The stock MAF is in no way a restriction at the power levels these guys are running. The MAF is almost 2 3/4 in diameter and plenty for N/A Its good for about 300 HP (Forced induction). The manifold on the other hand is more of a restriction than anything else once you talk about upping boost pressure thru the Stock TB and runners. The plenum isnt bad but the design of the variable inertia system is not a "pro turbo friendly" devise. The older 98 626 manifolds are perfect for the F/I guys running high boost levels from a T3 and up.
Also i had the stock throttle body on mine forever running upwards of 20psi with no real problems. Save your money and and just port and polish the manifold. Also port matching to the head seemed to increase performance and gas mileage.

On a side note a tuned MAF is the only way to PROPERLY tune a F/I vehicle. The resolution it gives you by measuring the Air Mass rather than infering it with load and throttle position will ensure proper A/F ratios and max power for a given boost pressure and rpm. If your vehicle came with a speed density system then i could see the reluctance to spend the time and money to convert, but if you have a MAF from the factory it is really the wisest choice

 

[MSP Chris]

Well I was going to mention that supras can upgrade to a 100mm TB, but we drive a car far from a supra...

So I know this is partially off topic. I know companies have been advertising MSP cam shaft's. Is there a need for me to upgrade my MSP cam shaft's or go ahead and throw a TB on?

 

[twilightprotege]

check what installshield2 was writing - on a turbo car the tb isnt such a big advantage...get the head ported if you want more power.

and msp cams???? shaneracing right? hmmmmmmm. msp cams are the same as the p5/mp3 etc. mazdaspeed only make an exhaust cam for our car, not an intake came. the only intake cam available that is bigger than stock is the j-spec.

 

[Installshield 2]

Well I was going to mention that supras can upgrade to a 100mm TB, but we drive a car far from a supra...

So I know this is partially off topic. I know companies have been advertising MSP cam shaft's. Is there a need for me to upgrade my MSP cam shaft's or go ahead and throw a TB on?

Supra's are completely different like you said, mostly in terms of size...The engine is bigger in displacement and has two more cylinders needing fed...I have yet to see a 100mm TB on a Supra, but you could be right...

In terms of turbocharged four cylinder engines...Castrol's 8sec B18 powered Civic was running a 72mm TB, with roughly 987whp at well over 40psi...

 

[70]

Just as side note...At relatively stock power levels on N/A, the throttle doesn't need to be messed with at all.

Burmeister played with his on his rally car and found no gains going larger and no found no real benefit from doing the little tricks to the stock one.

The SWC cars that are running at over 8000 rpm run 60mm or 65mm throttle bodies. But they also make around 250 whp.

So, take that with a grain of salt.

Perfworks: Did you run the 98 626 intake manifold on your car? I'm guessing it would bolt right on sicne the 626 ran a similar FS motor.

 

[fkmp5]

to those threadjacking trying to get free wheels from Rishie.. you're going about it the wrong way

My Un-Official How-To on Sponsorships:
Put together a nice portfolio of your car, include as many pics as you can, a professional layout, your complete mod list, to-do list, list the car shows/sanctioned drag race events your car will be on display at (which reaches the best target audience), events that you attended already (this year and last, so they know you've been around and not going to be here today, gone tomorrow with free parts), and your personal info.. be sure to note exposures you car has gotten previously on various websites and/or magazines.

Sell your car as a piece of advertising. Let the vendor or manufacturer know the magnitude of exposure you'll be offering at national events (HIN, NOPI, IDRC, etc).

Send the portfolio, bound as a nice booklet, to the head of marketing at manufacturers or vendor companies. Don't let it show up by surprise, call them first. Get a name of where to send it. Call the company and ask who handles marketing/sponsorships. They'll give you the name, and usually forward your call to the appropriate desk. After you talk to the person, get the address and send them your portfolio. Then let the portfolio speak for itself.

Here is the most important thing: After you get a sponsorship (whether it's something completely free, or at a nice discounted price) KEEP IN TOUCH with that marketing director. Not only does it keep you in good standing with that company (and they'll keep you in mind when next years products come out) it also allows you to name drop when you go to the next company for a sponsorship.