Just like the title says. I'd like to stay NA, what are the best mods. I've got RB cat back exhaust, AEM intake, Racingmazda catless full length header (on it's way), Sparcko plug wires, JSPEC intake cam and Mazdaspeed exhaust cam. What would be the next steps?
Best options to get max HP gains NA
- Thread starter kopp0041
- Start date
boostisgood
Member
- :
- 1988 FC3S TII
Forged internals, and High compression. polish the head, ect ect. Your about at the limit for small money HP gains in NA form.
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
yah get a pulley from unorthodox, port and polish the heads but not too much polishing, some valve work, polish the intake manifold, Jspec pistons or other forged goodies.
maybe start lookin at an ecu upgrade at this point, either a FMu or full one like the e6k.
if you tune it alot with the ecu and all those parts you should be able to hit 150whp easy.
maybe start lookin at an ecu upgrade at this point, either a FMu or full one like the e6k.
if you tune it alot with the ecu and all those parts you should be able to hit 150whp easy.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
the stock bottem end is more than up for the task for a relatively heavily NA build up...so the only thing needing changed is the pistons, simply for increasing static compression ratio...If you are absolutely commited to this and are looking for absolute highest streetable all engine gains feasable, then forged connecting rods, lightwieght pistons, and knife edging of the crank (which is forged already) will be needed for weight savings, not for strength...
IMO don't worry about forged anything for a while...
The most important part of this entire build up is tuning...You will never get good gains with a heavily built FS NA without a good stand alone...Everyone will tell you don't build it up NA, the FS sucks, NA sucks, go with a turbo, etc...The FS can be very impressive with well thought out modifications and TUNING...
Get bigger cams, a stand alone, and 11.1 or so compression pistons for very good power (with your other mods, approx 175+whp)
IMO don't worry about forged anything for a while...
The most important part of this entire build up is tuning...You will never get good gains with a heavily built FS NA without a good stand alone...Everyone will tell you don't build it up NA, the FS sucks, NA sucks, go with a turbo, etc...The FS can be very impressive with well thought out modifications and TUNING...
Get bigger cams, a stand alone, and 11.1 or so compression pistons for very good power (with your other mods, approx 175+whp)
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
Well no, not really
The pclub had jesse, chris, ed, and a slew of other extremely technical guys that pretty much knew everything you could ask...Not that this place doesn't, but I don't know a lot of the people on this board yet so I don't know who to point you too...
Also, all of those guys (most being moderators) don't return to the other board anymore, mostly becuase of the board being down and hollow promises made by the owner Jason...
the best recommendation for now that I have is get over to the pclub and read every single one of Jesse's (PsuedoReality X) stickied tech articles, in the tech/how to section...That will setup a very informative knowledge base for a lot of NA mods, thats all I did...
and I will do my best to answer, or find an answer for any question you have...
and Chas, you are exactly right about running rich stock...you can easily free up 7-8whp with the stock engine and good tuning from a stand alone...but it is a MUST once the compression is increased, with no ECU upgrade you will see detonation and about 4whp total...with a stand alone you will see 40+whp or so with 11.1:1 (approx.) compression...Piggy backs will not cut it, you need both fuel AND ignition timing control to have it running properly...
The pclub had jesse, chris, ed, and a slew of other extremely technical guys that pretty much knew everything you could ask...Not that this place doesn't, but I don't know a lot of the people on this board yet so I don't know who to point you too...
Also, all of those guys (most being moderators) don't return to the other board anymore, mostly becuase of the board being down and hollow promises made by the owner Jason...
the best recommendation for now that I have is get over to the pclub and read every single one of Jesse's (PsuedoReality X) stickied tech articles, in the tech/how to section...That will setup a very informative knowledge base for a lot of NA mods, thats all I did...
and I will do my best to answer, or find an answer for any question you have...
and Chas, you are exactly right about running rich stock...you can easily free up 7-8whp with the stock engine and good tuning from a stand alone...but it is a MUST once the compression is increased, with no ECU upgrade you will see detonation and about 4whp total...with a stand alone you will see 40+whp or so with 11.1:1 (approx.) compression...Piggy backs will not cut it, you need both fuel AND ignition timing control to have it running properly...
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i would say your immediate next step is porting of the head
i agree with installshield. forged stuff wouldnt be needed for under 200hp na engines...
and yes, GET BIGGER CAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
watch out for my postings in the possibilities going n/a thread (i think that's it). my head and intake manifold are coming off the car this weekend. porting next week, install with the bigger cams (than jspec) weekend of 18-19. i'll let you know the results
i agree with installshield. forged stuff wouldnt be needed for under 200hp na engines...
and yes, GET BIGGER CAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
watch out for my postings in the possibilities going n/a thread (i think that's it). my head and intake manifold are coming off the car this weekend. porting next week, install with the bigger cams (than jspec) weekend of 18-19. i'll let you know the results
Great, thanks for giving me the heads up, I'll be looking for the results. As far as the cams go, do either of you know what grind specifications I should go with? Is there a possibility that with higher lift, I'm going to need different valve springs and what not to prevent valve float? Or are you just thinking more duration on the more aggressive cams? Where's the best place to get you hands on a set of blank cams for our cars?
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
lobe angles and slope (which relates to how fast the valves are shoved open and released) can have more of an effect on valve springs than just lift...If the duration is also high, the lifting of the valve off the seat is much less abrupt, allowing the valve springs to keep the tappets in contact with the cam lobes...that is more or less of a generalization...
Personally I don't see the need for valve springs if you will be hanging around 7,000 rpm, which the FS is easily capable of with proper tuning and big enough cams...but a relatively mid level NA build up will require more of an increase in overlap and duration with a boost in compression on a low rod ratio engine such as the FS...
So in short, the lift specs do not need to be increased enough (or with steep enough lift angles) to make stiffer or "double" valve springs a must...
Keep researching that though...this NA s*** is a bit of a gray area with the FS, and theoretically the stock internals can handle crank speeds of 7400rpm with the right tuning...I have yet to see one rev that fast, let alone with the stock valve springs...all that is mentioned above is simply generalizations made from similar engines...
Remember that it is best NOT to do stiffer valves springs if not needed...They will actually sap more power than the stock springs becuase it takes more work from the crank to turn the timing belt and cams (the valve springs are physically stiffer making them more difficult to open)
Personally I don't see the need for valve springs if you will be hanging around 7,000 rpm, which the FS is easily capable of with proper tuning and big enough cams...but a relatively mid level NA build up will require more of an increase in overlap and duration with a boost in compression on a low rod ratio engine such as the FS...
So in short, the lift specs do not need to be increased enough (or with steep enough lift angles) to make stiffer or "double" valve springs a must...
Keep researching that though...this NA s*** is a bit of a gray area with the FS, and theoretically the stock internals can handle crank speeds of 7400rpm with the right tuning...I have yet to see one rev that fast, let alone with the stock valve springs...all that is mentioned above is simply generalizations made from similar engines...
Remember that it is best NOT to do stiffer valves springs if not needed...They will actually sap more power than the stock springs becuase it takes more work from the crank to turn the timing belt and cams (the valve springs are physically stiffer making them more difficult to open)
my advice..go boost..and never look back
