Beginning to loose hope on the MS3

funkyman

Member
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Mazda MS3 Red with NAV
I don`t know about EXEDE,this and that pipe and intercooler what not but,whats really dissapointing is that although its been almost a full year since this MS3 has been sold in the USA,no one or motorsports company has been neither able to develop or come out with a true reliable bolt on turbo and ECU upgrade that works or renders at least a 100hp at the crank so. I`m actually really dismal about it.No one can really tune these DI TURBO CARS or rather their ECU`s,not enough thorough knowledge or research and effort is being done by the sponsoring vendors when more so than not,this is the flagship race car of Mazda if not ,the quickest from 0-60 and the best looking and popular.In the Usa alone i`m sure there are 5000 potential customers looking for a true Turbo upgrade Kit like AA has for the BMW`s and i see that its not really getting much attention from HKS,AEM and Greddy who are the leaders in the Japanese tuning industry and Japanese cars.
It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well.Example Soltice and Saturn Sky turbos.We need some true Engine management gurus to look into this like the guy from AEM at HPF who cracked the Siemens ECU on the M54 E46 M3.(sad1)What i mean is tuning without using other types of fuel etc but pump gas.
 
I don`t know about EXEDE,this and that pipe and intercooler what not but,whats really dissapointing is that although its been almost a full year since this MS3 has been sold in the USA,no one or motorsports company has been neither able to develop or come out with a true reliable bolt on turbo and ECU upgrade that works or renders at least a 100hp at the crank so. I`m actually really dismal about it.No one can really tune these DI TURBO CARS or rather their ECU`s,not enough thorough knowledge or research and effort is being done by the sponsoring vendors when more so than not,this is the flagship race car of Mazda if not ,the quickest from 0-60 and the best looking and popular.In the Usa alone i`m sure there are 5000 potential customers looking for a true Turbo upgrade Kit like AA has for the BMW`s and i see that its not really getting much attention from HKS,AEM and Greddy who are the leaders in the Japanese tuning industry and Japanese cars.
It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well.Example Soltice and Saturn Sky turbos.We need some true Engine management gurus to look into this like the guy from AEM at HPF who cracked the Siemens ECU on the M54 E46 M3.(sad1)What i mean is tuning without using other types of fuel etc but pump gas.

if you think the aftermarket for the MS3 or MS6 is poor, its a good thing you never owned a Mazdaspeed Protege.

There are alot of reasons why the kinds of things you mention don't happen in the way we'd like nor the timeline we'd like. One, Mazdas have been traditionally niche cars. The brand simply doesn't have the kind of tuner charisma or reputation that the other import or even domestic brands have. Part of the problem is factory encouragement. The big 3 US makers have decent programs in place at the dealer level to encourage people to modify thier cars. Honda, Nissan, Scion do and have had those kinds of programs in place for years. Until very recently, with Mazda's purchase of Mazdaspeed and the whole "zoom zoom" campaign, Mazda really did nothing to encourage the end user to modify the car. Thats where alot of the enthusiasm begins for modifying a car. When the brand itself lacks the image of a vehicle that can and should be played with, fewer people that want to modify cars are even going to think about buying one. Look at GM Performance and Mopar Performance. They make no apologies about pushing thier performance parts in all the right places right down to the dealer parts counter. It took Mazda over a year to get the parts in thier Mazdaspeed catalog into physical warehouse inventory. Its shameful and halfassed and I've always felt that way about their performance parts program. Its an afterthought. For companies like Mopar, its a priority.

Two, because so few companies have focused on Mazdas outside of the Miata in the last decade, there are no companies really with the kind of knowledge to attack the platforms head on and make real quick and decent progress. Mazda ECUs are traditionally very hard to crack. The Accessport has been promised for almost a year now and we still have next to nothing. But on a Subaru, Cobb can whip out an Accessport with relative ease because they know those cars like the back of thier hand. Mazda has few dedicated tuners with that kind of goal or talent. Cobb has years of experience with Subaru. We don't have that kind of support in the Mazda community. Sure you have your Flyin Miatas with Miatas and Racing Beats with RX-7s but thats about it with a few exceptions and they're focused on those particular cars. Its growing, but its not yet at those levels. I hate to use the phrase but "its not a honda".

Direct Injection is perfectly tunable to make real power. Carburetor gurus said the same things when EFI hit the market, no one can make power with those fancy injectors, you need a good old fashioned Holley to make power! Time proved them wrong. Diesel operates on similar principles and there is tons of companies making amazing power with those engines. Direct Injection has been mainstream in affordable cars for a very short time now, and until its more mainstream or its been proven to most companies that people are actually going to modify these cars, few companies and fewer big name companies are going to want to invest in researching and producing parts for them. You mention HKS and AEM and other Japanese companies. They're not going to bat an eye at any Mazda lacking the words "miata" or "rx7" in the title until they can see what people are doing with these cars and that there is a market for them. I think, in time, the Mazdaspeed3 will help change that perception.

It should also be noted that tacking on 100hp at the crank has been done a bunch of times by more than a few people with both the ms6 and ms3. I myself am working on a bunch of stuff for this car, just because I don't talk about it doesn't mean things aren't in the works. I am the kind of guy who doesn't like to talk about things until there are results.

Give it time, there will be more parts for this car in a year than you know what to do with. Honestly, based on my experience with Mazda, I'm amazed there is this much support for the cars so far.
 
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^^ totally agreed xD remember that all those other import companies have been in the aftermarket since the late 80's or so. maybe earlier..i like mazda because its an unique car. not that many people drive it and we're always surprising people as well. just look at all the comments when people compare us to subarus and mitsubishis especially people wit MSPs and P5s. i love their stupidity xP just the other day, some1 asked ooo is that the new subaru?...deep down i was dying from laughter.

o yea u musnt forget our prideful race heritage xD love this commercial hehe http://youtube.com/watch?v=C_goFIeOWPw

anywayz, just sit back and give it some time. cant expect every1 to make new things wit just one yr of development...good things take time..just look at that thread wit the 500+ mazda3...that fricken turbo gives me the willies hahaha.
 
Their is a 500+ HP MS3 with pics and dyno's out right now. True the MS3 should have had alot more upgrades by now with the very positive consumer report reviews and the power they produce for a FWD car.
Like Captain said try owning a protege......... To reach 400 WHP is a b****

Give it some more time and I am sure at least one big turbo manufacture will make a good upgrade!

Rob
 
Um, try owning a KL-series V6. In the mid 90's it was in the Probe GT, MX6, 626 and a smaller cousin in the MX3. Sweetheart little motor with tons of potential (~300whp on 10psi), yet the aftermarket completely ignored it. Megasquirt is one of very few ECU tuning options (NOT pnp!!), the odd turbo/sc kit would pop up but rarely make production. People just need to be patient with the ms3, at least some big companies are actually working on parts for this car and considering it's limited numbers they're not going to throw their entire r&d department at it.
 
I came from a 1994 Thunderbird LX (V8) and if it wasn't a Mustang or Camaro you don't get sheet for mods. My MS3 to me, since I haven't been in the tuner world, spins my head how much there is just this soon after launch. It's crazy!

I've got the following things I'm going for, and should be able to get 315ish whp after it's done (estimates):
Port/Polish: 30whp
CAI/SRI: 15whp
Turboback: 30whp
Intercooler: 20whp

That's assuming I'm throwing about 230whp stock, and the numbers are based on manufacturer Dyno's, but for the Port and that's an estimate I feel is safe. Down the line I want a computer to mess with my AFR and stuff. Also, C-PE is working on this:

"MZR Hybrid Turbocharger

Coming Soon: Hitachi-Warner K04 Turbocharger upgrade

CPE is currently developing a hybrid turbocharger upgrade for the SPEED6 capable of safely eclipsing the 300whp mark. The stock turbocharger works well in stock trim, but becomes inadequate once power levels being to increase. It simply cannot flow the amount of air required for better than 300hp, and trying to do so will result in a lot of hot air and/or a wrecked turbocharger.

Though the parameters may change as the project progresses, we would like to retain the stock turbine housing and keep changes to the compressor side. This will allow the turbocharger to be used on stock style exhaust flanges, so no specific manifold or downpipe will be required.

We will keep updating this page with news as the project moves on.

-Custom Performance Engineering Staff."

Hang in there, next year at this time there will be all kinds of stuff available!
 
Just be patient. the first EMS systems you see are not going to be as good and clean because they have been pushed out the door to beat everyone else to market. The good stuff is coming, some very smart people are working on it, but it takes a long time to get these products done right.
 
Thanx for the good moral and support.I`m a patient man so i`ll keep my fingers crossed and wait.
 
dude its only been one year, it will come, its like any new vehicle, srt-4 didnt get any real outside suport till there 2nd year out. Be patient it will come.

some reason i needed to add "If you build it, They will come"
 
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i agree funkyman on the small aftermarket. But we have to admit that things have picked up. Mostly everything you need to turn this car into a full blown race car is out except a fuel system and some drivetrain parts. Both of which are under research right now.
 
I remember when I got my Lancer (non-Evo) back in 2002. There was almost nothing for the car. After a couple of years, their was plenty of parts out there including 2 bolt on turbo kits, 1 short lived supercharger kits, 4 coilover kits (not coilover sleeves), and all the other parts that you could want to put on that car. I am actually pleased to see the amount of parts available for the MS3. It could be worse.
 
The engine is brand new, the car is brand new. No one can have parts out immediately! Wow... I remember when I got my E36 M3 in '04, when the car had been out NINE YEARS, and tuner shops were still unlocking very, very simple secrets to making the car faster. RELAX!!!!!!!

Think about it, the EVO's are only stocked with stuff because that engine has been in every freakin' Mitsubishi for the last 15 years. Subaru's are fast because the factory supports BIG DOLLAR rally teams. The SBC has been basically the same SINCE THE 50's. If you're depressed already that you can't get 7,000 HP out of your MS3 6 months after you bought it, I'd rather you sold it to someone else who will appreciate it. s***, the car ALREADY has too much power for the amount of available traction, why do we want more?





And MOST WORD to the other KL owner. Trying to make power out of that engine without turbocharging was soooooo frustrating. Sure did sound good, though. :) I miss my MX-6's.
 
It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well.Example Solstice and Saturn Sky turbos..

I have a 2007 Solstice GXP, it's a Turbo with DI. BSR just started selling an ECU tune through Hahn racecraft in the US. I received mine last week!!! 260 Hp stock, now 315 after the tune. It is one fast little roadster now!!

I guess the message is that DI Turbos ARE tunable. Just gotta get the product out on the market for us. I would love to do some real tweaking to my MSP3!!(drive)

If anyone is interested, here's a link to the BSR product for the 2.0 Sky Redline. Same engine as the Solstice GXP: http://en.bsrab.se/products/
 
It is all in the numbers

Some of the problems we face with the MS3 are the low production numbers only 5,000 US. I owned two Miatas, what a group of owners. Just the Los Angelus chapter had over 350 members and San Diego had another 300. That was in 1997. The first year alone (1990) I think they sold 50,000 and the same holds true for the following 10 years with that kind of numbers the tuners like Racing Beat, Flying Miata and Jackson racing moved from other models and flocked to the Miata. Money was to be made.

The other problem we have is getting respect from the vendors. Again relatively low numbers doesnt help. Granted the same motor is used in the CX7 and the Speed 6 which I would have thought would help but most CX7 owners really dont look for a performance boost. What about the MS6 love the car but the 2006 model needed an 8,000 off sticker to sell it off the lot. Lets not talk the cause buy what you say you are going to buy when new products are being offered for the first time.

So - blame Mazda for only making 5,000 - that is the price of exclusivity.

Another example you got me started!

Take the XEDE made by Vishnue tuning sold by others. Vishnue wont even sell the product they make because again low numbers. Vishnue was once a Subaru only vendor, and now Mitsubishi because of the EVO. What really makes me pissed is that they now have developed the newer Procede engine management system for the BMW 335 and 535s. Why because these owners want more out of their cars and are willing to shell out lots of cash for it. Oh and I forgot BMW just doesnt make 5,000 of them.

Again - take Vishnue I was a little confused as to why the Xede had the Vishnue logo on it but was never mentioned on their website only on the BEGi website. Called and emailed BEgi no answer. Called Vishnue and had two replys in a day with answers about it and they had plans to produce the Procede chip for our MS3. That was back in May and Ive called them on numerous occasions to get more info and now get the run around. They have not moved any closer to the Procede. Why Lack of interest we need more members.

Want things to change do something about it. Call or email Vishnue and let them know you are interested in the Procede for the MS3 and MS6. If we can get 100 members to commit at 1,000 a piece - that's $100,000 no longer small potatoes.

Last example at the end of 2008 there will be 10,000 MS3s sold in the US, if 10% of the owners want an upgrade thats only 1,000. If you want to be optimistic say 20% want to upgrade their car and VOID their warranty. I think VOIDed warranty plays an important part to the after market community. And we have a 5 year 60,000 mile one standard (engine and drive train). That is a tough sell.

I can go on about Hondas and Toyotas but I think you get my point. How much money is to be made can only be supported by the volume of cars sold

I love my little car - and smile every day.

Cheers

Peter
 
i agree with the whole production numbers deal -- that and I don't know about anyone else here, but I limit myself to $100-200 per month for upgrades so I can afford my payment/insurance and still afford to eat, lol

I don't exactly have $1000 to lay down AND void my warranty so any repairs come out of pocket
 
Warranty shouldn`t be an issue if you are taking good care of your car,not driving like a mad man and that is taking it to the race track every week and ususally uprades are reversable.Warranty?What warranty.
 
Thats what I have been preaching Funky...warranty sucks ass on this car...3 years 36 on a new speed model..wtf...

Noooo sh it, and hallelujah brother.

WTF MazdaUSA, er, Ford?!

At this point I'll be over my warranty period in 2 years from purchase - I got it in May and I already have 4500 miles.

Worst. Warranty. Ever.
 
i dont know of many performance minded cars with a great warranty. the SRT-4 had a 3/36 as does the STi and EVO if i am not mistaken.
 
dont get your hopes up.... i know TRZ Motorsports is helping out in every way they can to get us some good parts.
things too look for soon...
a liquid/air intercooler kit
underdrive pulleys.
 

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