Back in time, Would your buy your MSP again?

[Chad92]

I searched for a thread similar to this, and could not find one.... so here it goes.

If you were able to travel ten years into the past, would you buy your MSP all over again? Knowing what factors/issues (upgrades, problems, repairs, explosions) you have experienced with your Mazdaspeed Protege, would you buy the car all over again knowing what you know now.
-If not, what would you buy and why wouldnt you buy it over again?
-If you would, then what would you do different (or not), and/or or what would you change?

My answer to this question is simlple, NO, I would not buy my particular MSP again. The car I bought, was a basket-case. I drove the car for ~1000 miles and the motor went ZOOM-ZOOM-BOOOM! Granite, the car did have some problems that needed doing and I should not have pushed it as hard as I did on the stock tune. But the fella who owned the car previous to myself, honestly treated the car like it was in a concentration camp...
Although, I do need to say I would buy A DIFFERENT MSP, without all of the issues (sway bushings, tune, body damage, etc.) rather than the particular car I bought. Or I would simply do what I have always wanted to do, buy a lowish mile Evolution VIII, and keep the damn thing stock!

This may be a sore subject for some, I know. But please do imput whatever you feel you would do in that situation!

 

[2.0t03speed]

If i could travel back 6 years i'd still buy it again. Back then the aftermarket was still alive, and the community was amazing. My msp introduced me to so many people/friends that i wouldn't have otherwise. The car was always super dangerous and i was always pushing the boundaries of the stock motor. I think that was part of the reason why i loved it so much. Whenever i drove it i was like ok what is going to happen now when i mash it haha. i did so many motor/turbo/trans swaps i can do them in my sleep now. Even though i sold it a few months ago i still miss it. i don't think i will ever mod a car as much or have as much working knowledge of a platform as i do the msp.

 

[Dcmason22]

Yes, I would buy it again if I could go back. I've owned mine for a little over 8 years. I've learned a lot with this car and have had a lot of fun with it over the years. But, the main reason that I would keep it is because of the rarity and simplicity. When I go to meets/shows I don't see tons of MSP's (if any lol), and I like that! MSP's are so easy to work on. The engine bay isn't FULL of crap that's just in the way. Which makes it enjoyable to work on.

I have recently fallin back in love with my MSP. I had to take a break and focus on my life (wife, child, career, etc) so, I took a 4 yr hiatus. It feels great to be outside working on it and buying new parts again!

 

[KrayzieFox]

This is a tough question for me, and it's something I was literally thinking about yesterday while working on my MP3.

On one side I would have to say no because my particular car was neglected quite heavily by the previous owner and it's still haunting me to this day, but on the other hand I enjoy it so much that I couldn't see myself driving anything else.

Here's a list of things that have been wrong with it since day one of my ownership:
When I first got it, I had to give it a full body makeover because it was in such rough shape.. it had underbody neons with wiring drilled right through the floor, as a result the carpets were rotting from the mold that built up due to the water getting in through the holes, interior neons, goofy audio synchronized flashing LED things, a monster tach drilled into the a-pillar right through the a-pillar cover, altezza tails, and all sorts of others retarded 16-year old rice mods that I gave zero s**** about. Now aside from the pure lack of taste the previous owner had, the body was also in pretty rough shape. It had a few deep scratches, a huge wrinkle in the left quarter panel, and the entire paint job was entirely faded and had virtually zero clear left due to it NEVER being washed or waxed. Now obviously Mazda had a lot to do with that one because their HZ yellow paint jobs (P5 and MP3) were single-stage garbage, but it was pretty obvious the previous owner had never ever even attempted to wash it. And to top things off, the entire interior from trunk to ceiling cover was filled with dust and mud from being driven on what I assume were purely gravel roads. There must've been a hole or leak somewhere in the rear right quarte panel since that's where it was most concentrated and it had made its way all the way around the interior of the car, making it impossible to keep it clean until I ripped out the entire interior and thorough cleaned it. And I also gave it a brand new proper paint job this last summer and took care of all the body damage.

So that's a long ass list of things I had to do just to "fix" the previous owner's neglect and ****-ups, but on the positive side those are honestly the ONLY things I've had to do on this car. I haven't had any major issues (knock on wood) with the engine, sensors, transmission, suspension, or anything really. Every single thing I've done was essentially voluntary, so having said that it's been a great car and it continues to serve its purpose.

But to answer the original question, if I could do it again knowing what I know today I probably wouldn't buy my particular car. I would've sucked it up and paid a couple more thousand for the MP3 that VIPMSP was selling at the time (it was in mint condition, I just couldn't get a loan for it cuz he was asking more than book value), or maybe I would even wait around for a spicy MSP to show up. Either way, I would've ended up with a Protege, just not the one I ended up with.. I'm still having to fix old owner issues to this day and I've owned the car for almost 4 years now...

 

[Chad92]

This is a tough question for me, and it's something I was literally thinking about yesterday while working on my MP3.

On one side I would have to say no because my particular car was neglected quite heavily by the previous owner and it's still haunting me to this day, but on the other hand I enjoy it so much that I couldn't see myself driving anything else.

Here's a list of things that have been wrong with it since day one offices my ownership:
When I first got it, I had to give it a full body makeover because it was in such rough shape.. it had underbody neons with wiring drilled right through the floor, as a result the carpets were rotting from the mold that built up due to the water getting in through the holes, interior neons, goofy audio synchronized flashing LED things, a monster tach drilled into the a-pillar right through the a-pillar cover, altezza tails, and all sorts of others retarded 16-year old rice mods that I gave zero s**** about. Now aside from the pure lack of taste the previous owner had, the body was also in pretty rough shape. It had a few deep scratches, a huge wrinkle in the left quarter panel, and the entire paint job was entirely faded and had virtually zero clear left due to it NEVER being washed or waxed. Now obviously Mazda had a lot to do with that one because their HZ yellow paint jobs (P5 and MP3) were single-stage garbage, but it was pretty obvious the previous owner had never ever even attempted to wash it. And to top things off, the entire interior from trunk to ceiling cover was filled with dust and mud from being driven on what I assume were purely gravel roads. There must've been a hole or leak somewhere in the rear right quarte panel since that's where it was most concentrated and it had made its way all the way around the interior of the car, making it impossible to keep it clean until I ripped out the entire interior and thorough cleaned it. And I also gave it a brand new proper paint job this last summer and took care of all the body damage.

So that's a long ass list of things I had to do just to "fix" the previous owner's neglect and ****-ups, but on the positive side those are honestly the ONLY things I've had to do on this car. I haven't had any major issues (knock on wood) with the engine, sensors, transmission, suspension, or anything really. Every single thing I've done was essentially voluntary, so having said that it's been a great car and it continues to serve its purpose.

But to answer the original question, if I could do it again knowing what I know today I probably wouldn't buy my particular car. I would've sucked it up and paid a couple more thousand for the MP3 that VIPMSP was selling at the time (it was in mint condition, I just couldn't get a loan for it cuz he was asking more than book value), or maybe I would even wait around for a spicy MSP to show up. Either way, I would've ended up with a Protege, just not the one I ended up with.. I'm still having to fix old owner issues to this day and I've owned the car for almost 4 years now...

Right? I cannot believe the damage some if these second hand cars go through. I did not list all of the problems i have had, simply because more than 50% of them are still unknown. I loved the car when it ran, but that is a rare thing among some of these "very-USED" msp's with what they go through. It would be nice to have a car that can take some abuse when stock, like the Evo 8's (so ive heard).

 

[KrayzieFox]

I think most Protege owners would love the idea of an Evo or STI, but the truth is that most (maybe all) of us ended up with Proteges because we simply couldn't afford anything with higher base performance.

So having ranted about all the issues I've had with my car, I do have to say it was a bargain. I only paid $5000 for it in '09 when it had only 67,000 miles on it (that was one of the few "good" things about it, relatively low mileage for an 8 year old car) and I put in another $1500 into restorations (that included a new paint job). So from a monetary perspective, I don't know if I could've gotten any more car for the $6500 I spent on my MP3... I would've had to shell out at least twice that much for an Evo VIII in '09.

 

[CHIQLES]

Yes. I still catch myself looking at her after a car wash and saying dam. lol

 

[protege3690]

DEFINTIELY would buy my MSP all over again. ive owned mine for 4 years now and even though she is currently down again (damn alternator) when i walk past and see that A$$ with all my suspension upgrades i cant help but just fall in love all over again. i paid $6800 for mine completely stock with the exception of an OEM factory installed sunroof from the previous owner. which i LOVE and make my msp stand out when i see it open. it was my first car i ever paid for on my own. got it when i was 19, my other cars, eagle talon, suzuki sidekick, and jeep grand cherokee laredo were all hand-me downs during highschool. and sold them all. KrayzieFox has a super valid point. i love evos, the looks power everything. do i plan on ever owning one, if my finances are right sure i would love to upgrade, but we all settled for a lower platform car due to price, or at least most of us did. and the MSPs are relatively easy to work on. its not a lego-vehicle like a honda, but close. but i love my MSP, i would buy it again, and i would never sell mine.

 

[mazdaspeedp]

I would forsure buy an msp again. I just woulnt buy the one i bought. It was an ontairo car and was all rusty. Than the diff broke along with having to replace the whole rear end struts,springs,swaybar,links,bushings 3 times, replaced a bracket that snapped because it rusted through, replaced the rear controll arms. Also had to do the radiator. The one thing that really pissed me off about this car though was the bad intercooler pipes.

 

[Chad92]

Seems like alot of people buy Lemon-MSP's (no) My buddy-friend has a MS6, and it has developed has a rod-knock with around 70k miles, and he doesnt rag on it 24/8. Maybe Masdaspeed should have consulted Mitsubishi about what happens when a turbo is strapped to a cruddy engine (DSM). I know MSP's were cheap (under $20k), but im perty sure that customers wouldn't have minded an ~$800 increase for stronger connecting rods. In the long run, it seems like that would have saved alot of us from spending buku-bucks on engine rebuilds/swaps.

 

[KrayzieFox]

The MSP was also Mazda's first Mazdaspeed vehicle, and judging by the overall package they didn't really seem like they knew what they were doing. Everything that made it a MS Protege was manufactured by someone else: Callaway, Garrett, Tokico, Racing Beat, Sparco, etc. so it's pretty obvious that Mazda wasn't interested in doing any more than slapping on some aftermarket parts on a regular Protege.

 

[2.0t03speed]

The MSP was also Mazda's first Mazdaspeed vehicle, and judging by the overall package they didn't really seem like they knew what they were doing. Everything that made it a MS Protege was manufactured by someone else: Callaway, Garrett, Tokico, Racing Beat, Sparco, etc. so it's pretty obvious that Mazda wasn't interested in doing any more than slapping on some aftermarket parts on a regular Protege.

Thats why with the ms3 everything on the motor is stamped with FoMoCo(ford motor company) lol.

 

[Chad92]

Hey, Ford is the last truely American car company left out of the "Big Three". Chrysler-Fiat, GM-"Government Motors", Ford- "Freakin' Original Rally Designs" (I Assume). But I want more opinions on the subject!

 

[fatti03msp]

I would have bought mine still.... love the car, but would have not put so much money into it and would have put the money towards my 2nd gen FC TII. Again love the car but RWD is just so much more fun, plus building power is easier too on a FC

 

[tweety2300]

How does Mazda not know what they're doing? You guys act like the msp was the first turbo car Mazda made...

 

[Chad92]

Yes, the 323 is TURBO-BOOSTED, the RX-7's were, and the Millenia was Supercharged (I educatedly assume). I dont think anybody said they dont know what they are doing, but they could have put a bit more effort into finding a reliable engine platform, rather than a probe decade-old proble block. Would have also been nice if they at least attempted to exhange the stock fs-de Pixie Stick rods with some more muscular bits, and do a bit more research on what the fuel settings need to be for that particular turbo setup.

Back on Topic tho good sir!
Thre are "24^10E" other threads that discuss Mazda's education through the TRBO-101 course

 

[tweety2300]

The MSP was also Mazda's first Mazdaspeed vehicle, and judging by the overall package they didn't really seem like they knew what they were doing. Everything that made it a MS Protege was manufactured by someone else: Callaway, Garrett, Tokico, Racing Beat, Sparco, etc. so it's pretty obvious that Mazda wasn't interested in doing any more than slapping on some aftermarket parts on a regular Protege.

This is what I'm saying chad

And just some info. Callaway made the manifold, garret made the turbo like they do 90% of other factory turbo cars, racing beat was just sway bars same as the mp3 along with the tokico struts, sparco was just pedals and shift knob iirc.

The only huge issue with the msp was the LSD and the stock tune. LSD had a fix released for it. The rods are fine if its tuned correctly for stock boost. The rods are meant to hold 170 hp and they do that just fine, but when it runs pig rich and you have an idiot behind the wheel running the piss out of it even when it's hitting fuel cut, yes you're going to have problems

I wouldn't buy my particular mp3 again as it was horribly maintained and is a huge night mare

 

[KrayzieFox]

This is what I'm saying chad

And just some info. Callaway made the manifold, garret made the turbo like they do 90% of other factory turbo cars, racing beat was just sway bars same as the mp3 along with the tokico struts, sparco was just pedals and shift knob iirc.

The only huge issue with the msp was the LSD and the stock tune. LSD had a fix released for it. The rods are fine if its tuned correctly for stock boost. The rods are meant to hold 170 hp and they do that just fine, but when it runs pig rich and you have an idiot behind the wheel running the piss out of it even when it's hitting fuel cut, yes you're going to have problems

I wouldn't buy my particular mp3 again as it was horribly maintained and is a huge night mare

Maybe I should rephrase. It's not that they didn't know what needed to be done to make a proper turbo vehicle, as I'm sure any engineer at Mazda has far more knowledge about these topics than any of us, it's that it seemed they didn't quite know what to do with this whole new brand of Mazdaspeed performance. So that's what I was referring to when I said they didn't quite know what they were doing, as they didn't really do much of the manufacturing that made it a Mazdaspeed. Garrett making the turbo is no surprise, but the rest could've easily been done in-house if they were fully committed to the project. But I assume the commitment to the MS brand was exactly the problem. They likely knew what needed to be done but just didn't have the budget to do it "properly". Seeing as how it was their first MS vehicle I'm sure higher-up Mazda execs were pretty hesitant to hand over a bunch of money to a project that may or may not be very successful in the future..

And yes, you're right in saying that the rods are fine for what the car was intended for. It's not Mazda's fault that 99% of MSPs got picked up by people like us who want to squeeze every ounce of power they can, but it is their fault for overlooking key components like you mentioned. The LSD, even when "revised", still failed even at stock power levels and the tune was also atrocious even after the reflash was rolled out. Another unresolved major flaw was the poor lubrication system, but that's an inherent property of the FS-DE and has probably been that way since it was first used in the 90's. At the end of the day though, I'm sure it all came down to a simple cost-benefit analysis, and Mazda decided to leave things along to keep costs down, and I'm ok with that because it allowed me to afford the car.

But anyway, back on topic, both the MP3 and MSP are beautiful and extremely fun to drive, and for the money we all paid for them it was virtually impossible to get anything else that would've been a better overall package. Sure the MSP may lack in the power side of performance, but it made up for it with beautiful styling, incredible handling and road response, and even the uniqueness factor to a certain extent. Call me a hipster if you want, but that's one of the main reasons I like the MSP

 

[mazdaspeedp]

This is what I'm saying chad

And just some info. Callaway made the manifold, garret made the turbo like they do 90% of other factory turbo cars, racing beat was just sway bars same as the mp3 along with the tokico struts, sparco was just pedals and shift knob iirc.

The only huge issue with the msp was the LSD and the stock tune. LSD had a fix released for it. The rods are fine if its tuned correctly for stock boost. The rods are meant to hold 170 hp and they do that just fine, but when it runs pig rich and you have an idiot behind the wheel running the piss out of it even when it's hitting fuel cut, yes you're going to have problems

I wouldn't buy my particular mp3 again as it was horribly maintained and is a huge night mare

I think sparco also designed the seats along with the steering wheel too.

 

[CHIQLES]

what I like about the car is that someone could be tailgating me until we get to the curves then they fall behind and not once will I hit the brakes just maintain speed and go. Im looking through the mirror and laughing to myself.