AutoX harness opinions/mounting points?

[Leigh]

Okay, so the baseball sized bruise on the side of my leg from being slammed into the door last weekend has finally convinced me to stop dawdling and invest in a harness. I'm a little back and forth on what to get though, so I wanted some opinions.

I know there are MSPs using the Schrothe Rallye harnesses... and I'm half tempted to go with them, except they're a big investment over some of the other ones I'm looking at.

I talked with a couple of guys at my region about it - and got to try a g-force latch-type harness. It held really well, and seemed comphy but I wondered if it would be annoying in an AutoX setting to deal with getting all the links hooked on everytime you strap in... since I wouldn't expect to be sitting in the car for an entire run heat (when you have 15-20 minute breaks between runs sitting in a hot car is pretty boring)... On the other hand, it seemed like a well made harness and it would only run me about 60-70$ shipped. That's about 90$ less than the rallye 3 or 4 that I could be spending on entry fees.

My other consideration was a sparco clubman harness which seemed like a nice compromise - it has the stock-like buckle but is less than the rallye (around 85-100 is what I was seeing). It looks like the straps are thinner though... and being female I'd kind of like something that's going to distribute that pressure as broadly as possible

Anyway - opinions from people using these? Like/hate?

Other than that I was trying to figure out mounting points. The outer stock seatbelt bolt seems easy enough, but I'm guessing the cover for the one next to the consol is going to have to come off and stay off. How hard is it to get the seat out to do the install? Does anyone have pics of how they attached theirs?

Rooting around in the back I had someone suggest mounting the rear strap to a bolt behind the rear seats - running it between the top and bottom of the seats and attaching it there (I have a pic of it, but it doesn't seem to have uploaded correctly - will try again later). Its a grade 8 bolt about centered on the driver's side rear seat.

I was also considering if there was a way to hook any of these harnesses to the child restraint hooks. They just look so temptingly convenient. I'm not sure if they're too high up to be effective though.... or if they would even be strong enough to hold...

 

[DistantTea]

Why you should spend the extra money and get a schroth rallye 4:

1.) You want to use the back seat some day (it disconnects from the rear V)
2.) You want to have it disapear when you are not autocrossing (it disconnects and rolls under your seat completely out of sight).
3.) You want to be able to get in and out of it (super easy on and off)
4.) You like to tell people not to mess with your schroth... its sensitive equipment.

If all you do is autocross and you don't have a full cage I would just get the schroth. A full 5 point 3" web will hold you in better, no doubt about that but a Schroth is easy to install, goes away when you don't need it. The schroth will hold you down great and was damn near created entirely for autocross on a street driveable car... real 5 points are bulky, hard to adjust and NOT DOT approved (although there are some that are, but they cost more than a rallye 4) so you can't be driving around on the street with them (lets not get into that debate today though please).

Attatchment points are a breeze. You use the back seatbelt bolts. Don't jury rig the scroth ends to work with latch (although I really want to) it was made for those bolts. Waist harness can attatch to the bottom drivers seatbelt bolt and then I used the seat rail ground bolt on the back right side... works well.

Biggest reason though... you can get it in black and grey that matches the seats (hand)

Those are just my opinions though. If you get racing seats though you might want to invest in something even nicer than the schroth... like a cage.

 

[AutoBox]

can someone point me to a website that sells this rallye harness? after my first autox i really would like something to hold me down so i dont gotta worry about my ass flyin aorund.....also is a harness d - stock legal how about a racing seat

 

[Leigh]

If all you do is autocross and you don't have a full cage I would just get the schroth.

Somehow I knew you were gonna say that ;P

Just lucky I got my tax refund last week or I wouldn't even be considering the schroth... descisions descisions....

Harness = legal in stock
Racing Seats = not legal in stock, will bump you to... STX I think?

 

[AutoBox]

boo......guess its just a harness for me? which one uses stock belt bolt locations for mounting?? so i can wrap it up for my drive to work during the week

 

[low_psi]

I used a Corbeau 3-pts Double Release last season. It was great; cheap, easy to install, easy to hide and held me well. I think I may have been a bit too thin for it(6'/120lbs ) but it was great and I plan on using it in the MSP.

I-Bolt Mounting Points-

I replaced the lower bolt on the B-Pillar frame and the female connection bolt, both from the factory three point system. This allows you to easily switch between the two while staying installed. Each I-bolt has a clip on it so that you can remove it quickly it you want the harness completely out of the car for steet driving.
The rear I-bolt replaces the female connections' bolt that the rear seat belts use.

Here's a picture:

Comes in Blue, Black or Red.

Just make sure you hang onto the factory bolts for when you remove the harness completely. Mine were thrown away in the move this summer so I've got to go pick them up from a junkyard. You can't just but the bolts from Mazda, they come with all the connectors($30-65 per point).

Along with some pads, this harness felt great.

 

[AutoBox]

ill have to check that out..i wanna get a harness before june 13th.....thx

 

[DistantTea]

Thats a good harness too. I like the rallye 4 though because it uses two mounting points for the rear strap point... less lateral movement. But thats really nitpicking, not a horrible point of failure or anything.

We got our schroth from soloracer.

http://www.soloracer.com/

 

[AutoBox]

thanks for the link...ill probably get mine there...thx again

 

[KBicknel]

Like Distanttea said, we have the Schrothe and just love it. It so easy to use and it was easy to install. I would say that it's worht the money.

 

[Leigh]

Just make sure you hang onto the factory bolts for when you remove the harness completely.

Remove the harness you say... hmm, but that would mean I wasn't keeping my car for some reason.

Nah... that would never happen ;D

I had seen the corbeau awhile back, forgot it was an option... really wish I had a chance to try some of these out... its hard to figure out how they will fit you/your car from a picture...

 

[Mallard]

I also have the Schroth Rallye 4 and love it. Here's my project log with the install cateloged. Not sure of this is the exact way you did it Distant, but it's up to spec.

http://trackaddicts.net/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=48

If you use anything other then a Rallye 4 you will NOT want to mount the rear stratps to the lap belt anchors. In an accident if the rear straps are at too much of an angle they will pull down and compress your back, instead of just holding you flat to the seat. The Rallye 4 is designed to use those points and is safe. The child seat anchors on the rear decklid would be my choice if I were useing any other harness. (Not that you're going to get in an accident at a Solo event, but you should have it installed correcly reguardless)

 

[low_psi]

If you use anything other then a Rallye 4 you will NOT want to mount the rear stratps to the lap belt anchors. In an accident if the rear straps are at too much of an angle they will pull down and compress your back, instead of just holding you flat to the seat. The Rallye 4 is designed to use those points and is safe. The child seat anchors on the rear decklid would be my choice if I were useing any other harness. (Not that you're going to get in an accident at a Solo event, but you should have it installed correcly reguardless)

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree that the rear lap belt point create too much of an angle. I don't see how the Scroth is designed any differently than the Corbeau I used. The angle created is the same as w/ the Scroth and within spec for the Corbeau harness safety reccomendations. Are you saying that the single strap for the rear lies at too much of a sideways angle, compared to how a 4pt harness will center the harness at the seat back?

 

[DistantTea]

Nah, the rear seat belt anchor positions are good for the rallye 4 and the 3. It should be obvious that a schroth autocross harness (or the corbeau) are pretty much meant for "safe" motorsports only. I wouldn't use my schroth on a track day and I don't use it on the street. DOT approved dosn't mean safe...just legal.

As far as anchoring position is concerned the 45 degree angle that these style harnesses use is actually FIA legal (obviously point of attatchment is not). Its not as safe as a zero degree anchor but what they try to avoid is having people put the anchor points on the rear floor of the car... which could be dangerous even at low speed impacts thanks to your squishy OEM seat and redirection of forces.

I was thinking about moving my rear V strap to the two upper anchor points where the left and center child seat tether locations are.. but those bolt locations are only rated for 150lbs load and in an accident at 30 mph the harness would snap right out of there.

 

[Mallard]

No, I am saying that when looking at the seat from a profile with the harness installed, the straps that sttach to the back seat should not be at an extreme angle. GM Racing recommends only a 0-10 degree angle in the belts so stress is not sent through the persons back in the event of an accident. Given, more extreme angles are allowable since the 0-10 sepc is for race cars that frequently impact walls at over 100 mph.

The Schroth Rallye 4 is designed for this mounting position, and the Rallye 3 is acceptable at these positions, but preforably mounted to a higher position. The lower mounting positions are close to a 45 degree angle and I was told anything over that is bad. The ASM technology in the Schroth is probably the reason it is acceptable, but I would be wary of wearing the harness doing anything except autocross.

 

[low_psi]

What's the ASM technology?

And yes, even DOT approved harnesses shouldn't be worn on the street. That's just asking for trouble. I think most NASA and SoloI/Club Racing events require 5pt belts, but driving schools don't require them.

 

[BinaryRotary]

I just use these. Cost effective and they work well.

 

[Mallard]

ASM is thier "Anti-Submarining" Technology. If you look at a Schroth there is a plastic cover on the rear strap that says ASM on it. In the event of an accident it keeps you from sliding down in the seat. Obviously they can't disclose what the little plastic thing does (and whats under it), but my guess is that it lets out the belts a small amount or provides some elasticity during the first milliseconds of impact. Your weight is then concentrated on the lap belts, while the shoulder straps merely hold you in place. This keeps the shoulder straps from concentrating load on the top of your shoulders and hence, your back.

Again, this is may assumption, but would go along with what they are claiming the end result is. I would not feel comfortable using ANY belt at high speeds that was at a severe angle like that though.

 

[AutoBox]

woot cant wait to get mine

 

[DistantTea]

I think the big picture here is that for autocross... its all good. For ease of use and hiding after the event (plus being available in black with grey lettering to match the mazdaspeed) I like the Schroth.

If the car ever saw track duty where my OEM 3 point was a bad idea I wouldn't have the schroth in there I would have a Sparco camlock, a full cage, and a fire supression system (amongst other things obviously). But I'm a snob that way. There's no halfway to safety in a race car.

Luckily autocross is safer to the average driver than traveling on the highway through dayton at rush hour... it wouldn't matter if I strapped myself in with duct tape, I think I'll be ok if I ever hit that 3" curb and shear off a wheels at 15mph.