AutoX harness opinions/mounting points?
- Thread starter Leigh
- Start date
True! I think in AutoX a harness isn't really safety equipment - its a driver's aid, and you would never catch me using a harness on the street. If safety were the primary concern with this the only "right" way to install one would involve a roll bar or cage and the schroth/corbeau/sparco harnesses mentioned would not even be considered since they all take longer to get out of and have no sub belts (whatever ASM tech really involves I wouldn't trust it in a real crash)
And as far as rolling - while its possible, I think your odds of having it happen are lower than your odds of being run over by an 18 wheeler (especially in a well balanced car like the MSP). When I manage the feat and die from using a harness you can all go out and buy roll bars in my memory though ;P
I'm currently using a Corbeau 5 point for auto-x. Works fantastic (I actually pulled a groin muscle last year auto-xing .... little too tense trying to stay in place). The 3" shoulder straps are a bit bulky, and use up the rear seat. The side straps can be tucked away nicely along side the seat and the front point goes undeneath ok. The cam-lock is not bad at all for getting in and out of the car. one flick of the wrist and you drop all the belts off... and they all snap in individually so it is easy to get adjusted well also. The harness can be found for aound 140 bucks. So not terrible economically either.
yeh, i just want the harness to hold my ass better....chopin at the wheel i keep havin to push off the door with my elbow or leg and it got annoyin.....oh and the cone causin ya to flip, i told my gf that is what i heard, she didnt wanna ride along with me after that lol heheLeigh said:
Harness Update
Okay, in spite of the high recomendations for the Schroth I went with the G-force for a few reasons.
1)I can't justify spending more than twice as much for the Schroth right now. 2)I've tried the G-force before & like it - the only Schroth belts I've ever used are on the karts in Austin(which admittedly are a whole different sort - but the bias is still there), and they don't do as much to hold me in as I'd like. The G-force has a re-webbing program and you can switch out the shoulder portion easily and inexpensively. This will be really, really nice if I decide to make it track-worthy in a few years since I won't have to buy new hardware.
Mounting was about 20 minutes not counting the 2 hour trip to sears hardware that invovled lots of arguing about whether or not they had the bolts I was looking for. No real problems with actual install.
I ended up using the childseat restraint bolt to mount the rear strap. I was going to bolt it to one of the rear seatbelt points, but looking at how it would stretch for that was uncomfortable with both the angle and slight offset it was going to have. The restraint place ended up being 100% easier anyway since no seats had to be removed and I was even able to use the stock bolt - I just swaped the harness plate for the original equipment.
I would recomend it for this kind of setup for anyone looking at mounting a Y-type harness. It lines up the belt much better - almost exactly horizontal. Using the rear seatbelt mounts it looked like you really need to have a real 4pt (separate shoulder straps - or something like the Rallye 4) - or else be prepared to drill some holes.
For the 3inch belts I had to leave the plastic cover off the stock buckle to get clearance for the inside lap belt. I think for most 2inch you should be able to re-install no problem.
Decided not to install the sub-belt for the time being.
Total cost: about 68$ after shipping and purchase of new seatbelt bolts (not included with harness).
First Impressions: I like. I am not going anywhere. I can use my left foot without fear of where its going to go when I'm done using it.
Theoretically this is allowing me to concentrate more on what I'm doing than where I'm sliding. In practice its mostly allowing me to goggle at the fact that I'm not sliding and is just confusing me a lot so far.
Also of note - I have apparently trained myself to drive based on how much I'm flung around in the car. I think its going to take a few events for it to sink in that I can't gague how fast I'm going by how hard my knee is impacting the door anymore.
Its hard to tell if its actually impacting my driving any though, since I ran with a new group today and on concrete (have never driven on concrete before - it was kind of off-putting since I seem to have developed a style based on the expectation that I won't have all that much grip).
Will know more tomorrow since I'm driving on home turf. (drive)
Okay, in spite of the high recomendations for the Schroth I went with the G-force for a few reasons.
1)I can't justify spending more than twice as much for the Schroth right now. 2)I've tried the G-force before & like it - the only Schroth belts I've ever used are on the karts in Austin(which admittedly are a whole different sort - but the bias is still there), and they don't do as much to hold me in as I'd like. The G-force has a re-webbing program and you can switch out the shoulder portion easily and inexpensively. This will be really, really nice if I decide to make it track-worthy in a few years since I won't have to buy new hardware.
Mounting was about 20 minutes not counting the 2 hour trip to sears hardware that invovled lots of arguing about whether or not they had the bolts I was looking for. No real problems with actual install.
I ended up using the childseat restraint bolt to mount the rear strap. I was going to bolt it to one of the rear seatbelt points, but looking at how it would stretch for that was uncomfortable with both the angle and slight offset it was going to have. The restraint place ended up being 100% easier anyway since no seats had to be removed and I was even able to use the stock bolt - I just swaped the harness plate for the original equipment.
I would recomend it for this kind of setup for anyone looking at mounting a Y-type harness. It lines up the belt much better - almost exactly horizontal. Using the rear seatbelt mounts it looked like you really need to have a real 4pt (separate shoulder straps - or something like the Rallye 4) - or else be prepared to drill some holes.
For the 3inch belts I had to leave the plastic cover off the stock buckle to get clearance for the inside lap belt. I think for most 2inch you should be able to re-install no problem.
Decided not to install the sub-belt for the time being.
Total cost: about 68$ after shipping and purchase of new seatbelt bolts (not included with harness).
First Impressions: I like. I am not going anywhere. I can use my left foot without fear of where its going to go when I'm done using it.
Theoretically this is allowing me to concentrate more on what I'm doing than where I'm sliding. In practice its mostly allowing me to goggle at the fact that I'm not sliding and is just confusing me a lot so far.
Also of note - I have apparently trained myself to drive based on how much I'm flung around in the car. I think its going to take a few events for it to sink in that I can't gague how fast I'm going by how hard my knee is impacting the door anymore.
Its hard to tell if its actually impacting my driving any though, since I ran with a new group today and on concrete (have never driven on concrete before - it was kind of off-putting since I seem to have developed a style based on the expectation that I won't have all that much grip).
Will know more tomorrow since I'm driving on home turf. (drive)
FWIW, I use a Schroth Rallye 3 mounted to the stock belt locations in front and to the stock rear shoulder belt location at the C pillar in the rear. No drilling, it hangs down against the rear seat back when not in use and this mounting point was made to be the single shoulder restraint for an adult (as well as being the Schroth-recommended mounting position because it give a close to zero angle from top of shoulder back). I use it for autocross and track events. It was expensive but works very well. It looks like the Coreau could be mounted the same way, key point is being able to disconnent the rear shoulder belt when not in use.
Anyone here have any complaints about any of these harnesses for a car at the track [not a dragstrip] w/ stock seats and no rollcage?
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If you ask around enough, you will hear people say that it is not safe to run a harness on the track without a roll bar/cage but I do it. I am held in better and better able to control the car--a plus for safety on every lap. If I roll over, however, it's possible that the B-pillar gives way, the roof collapses, the seat back does not give and the belts hold me in so tightly that I can't move out of the way and am crushed. In contrast, with the stock 3-pt belts, I could be pushed out of the way to the side by the collapsing roof and possibly avoid being crushed.Action Jackson said:
Now I don't want to be crushed but I want to drive on the track and I have much greater control with the belts than without. A rollcage/bar is not an option since I use the back seat regularly for my 2 kids (good reasons not to be crushed). So . . . I choose to take the risk. I think this is a reasonable risk for the thrill of driving on the track. In 5+ years of racing an ITS RX7 (with an 8-pt rollcage), I never rolled or came close to rolling over. In fact, I think I only saw 1 or 2 cars roll, but it can and does happen in amateur racing (even moreso in pro racing where the stakes are higher). In non-race track events, it could also happen but here i push even less than in the competitive race situation (I'm just having fun) so I don't think it'd be likely.
In the end, though, it's a personal decision which each driver must decide for themselves. The risk is relative--for example, compare it to riding a motorcycle. Life involves risk. Choose the ones you think are worth taking and avoid the others. If I was worried about all the possible risks, I wouldn't get out of bed.
Thanks Gar777.
I want to use my backseat as well and I don't got "that" fast on the tracks anyways on street tires. Besides if I wanted a race car, I'd buy an NX2000 or 240 and put a cage in it.
I figure that if I'm held into the seats better, then I wouldn't be sliding around in the seat so much in the corners. I also have a hard time staying "glued" to the seats which affects my shifting is affected. It's hard to shift when your foot is pressing against the dead pedal.
I'll have to see who in my area sells these types of belts.
I want to use my backseat as well and I don't got "that" fast on the tracks anyways on street tires. Besides if I wanted a race car, I'd buy an NX2000 or 240 and put a cage in it.
I figure that if I'm held into the seats better, then I wouldn't be sliding around in the seat so much in the corners. I also have a hard time staying "glued" to the seats which affects my shifting is affected. It's hard to shift when your foot is pressing against the dead pedal.
I'll have to see who in my area sells these types of belts.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65729Action Jackson said:
We have a group buy on the Schroths that ends on Friday...if anyone is ready to get theres. The prices are awesome thanks to Chris at SPD Racing.
Jackal14075
Member
- :
- 2003 Protege5
OK, i emailed Mazda Motorsports about using the child safety restraints as a mounting point for a harness, and they were very adimant about not using that point, apparently its rated at only 150LBS, which will snap instantly in anny crash, as your body wieght is multiplied exponentially. Also, where and when is this group discount, I'm ready to purchase.
Having them mounted high at the rear child seat points would NOT mess up your spine. The rule of thumb is that they should exceed a 45 degree angle supposedly, or go over a guide bar.
You could probably get around the mounting issue by using some 1/4" steel plate and mounting to that with it in the trunk screwed into a structural member.
You could probably get around the mounting issue by using some 1/4" steel plate and mounting to that with it in the trunk screwed into a structural member.
That was kind of my point - the only other stock option is at too steep and angle - the rear belt points *would* mess up your spine. That was the whole point in mounting it to the child restraint points in the first place.
I think its been previously established though that the only safe way to use a harness for AutoX is to not use a harness (or to get a rollbar/cage & harness bar).
I think its been previously established though that the only safe way to use a harness for AutoX is to not use a harness (or to get a rollbar/cage & harness bar).
Ahh.. I misunderstood you when you said that a harness would mess you up I took that as even if it was mounted up high.... I have a set of racing seats in my car that are mounted more or less right on the floor. They probably sit a good 3" lower or more than stock seats. It's enough that mounted to the rear lap belt points my harness is questionable, but not too bad as far as angle. I'ts certainly not the best of options as far as mounting, but semi-liveable. I would be much more comfortable though having the recommendations of a roll cage and harness bar.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65729Jackal14075 said:
Need payment today if that is possible for you.
If strength is the goal, the best stock option is to use the rear seat shoulder belt mounting point at the C-pillar. This is what Schroth recommends for their DOT-approved harnesses. Schroth does not recommend using the middle rear shoulder belt point (I don't understand why since it theoretically is for an adult), but this point would still be stronger than the child seat tether mounts. The bolts for the seat belt mounting points have roughly twice the diameter of the the child seat bolts (which makes them like 4X as strong or more). This does require lifting up the parcel shelf cover but there is room there to mount the belts and have the belt slide through the stock opening without any cutting. That's how I've mounted my 3pt (Y style).Leigh said:
For auto-x use, though, the child mounts are probably fine and certainly a painless option.
got snake?
Member
AutoBox said:can someone point me to a website that sells this rallye harness? after my first autox i really would like something to hold me down so i dont gotta worry about my ass flyin aorund.....also is a harness d - stock legalhow about a racing seat
I'm probably going to get the:
Schroth Rallye 4. I am annoyed with my front seats also. They suck in the autocross! My fat ass has pretty much worn out the driver seat. Looking for a decent replacement. But my issue is I wear dress pants to work and don't want to tear them on the side bolsters (did it on my buddies stock Civic Si seats) Any opinions? BTW I haven't been on this board in ages! Just trying to get into some autocross events this year. Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks!!!
Sid
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I use a Rallye 4 and like it alot. It depends on how you have your seat adjusted as to how well it fits you. I'm very small (5' 8"-140lbs) and it fits just fine. I have a stockier, shorter friend that can't fit in them since he has to move the seat up a little which reduces the amount of harness you have to work with.
got snake?
Member
I'm 5' 8" and about 210lbs. But I also want to get a better seat. Got any recommendations?
