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xantxp5x

Member
This sunday I raced my pro5 completely stock in an auto x event.
Had such an amazing time and i intend on going and becoming part of the auto x club. I ran a 46.84 on the course which i was told was really good for my first event. I just wanted to comment on how UN-psyched i am with the dunlops that came on the car. I was coming through this big sweeping turn and every time the tires would screech out and slow me down. REgardless my p5 ran really well and i had a great time. I suggest all my fellow mp3 and p5 owners from jersey and NYC to come on down. Get at me if anyone feels the same way about the tires.
 
After six years of autocrossing, I'll tell you your first upgrade should be Kuhmo tires! These will make a bigger difference than any other single mod. Don't focus on HP, make it handle.

Britt
 
Wish there was on auto-X track in my area. In case there's one that I don't know of, I live in the Springfield MO area. If anyone knows of one within a reasonable distance (100mi. or so) please let me know. I would love to try my skills on a real track!
 
Check this Brad.

http://www.kcrscca.org/

I am in Jefferson City so no place really close to me. I have friends in KC so would prolly go up there for it. I am sure St Louis has same time of thing.

Doing a SCCA Solo II this spring would be a ton of fun i think.
 
AWESOME!!!
Thanks Jason for the info..
Maybe we could go to one at the same time.
I would love to see your MSP.
The local dealership hasn't gotten any in yet.
Every time I ask when they can be expected they always say "by the end of next month".
I would love to buy one but I just purchased my P5 last July so they would probably **** me on my trade-in.
 
still smiling...

i actually cant stop smiling i had sooo much fun today. I got some questions for people who have autocross/ racing experience. I want to get a good tire and wheel selection for racing. Should i get 16" or 17" and is wider better??? also I know lightwieght is good. What about suspension will coilovers make it handle better? I want to get the ground control with the eibach springs will that help? or is it just for show??? Get at me!!
 
For wheels: smaller, lighter, wider
For suspension: start with adjustable struts before anything else

Also make sure you play around with tire pressures a bit to adjust the handling before you go sinking a lot of money trying to fix things that aren't really broken.
 
Before you buy ANYTHING, learn to drive your car at its current limits.

I've been autoxing since 1996, and one thing I've learned in that time is to go in steps: learn to drive to the maximum extent each time you do a mod, THEN do the next one. AS someone with no prior experience, in the long run, you will be better off with the car stock until you have enough experience to know exactly what you want your car to do and what to do to get it there.

For example, it took me almost 18 months to get my Celica into the shape I was finally happy with. In the San Francisco Region, I had one of the top cars in STS, because I had taken my time, and done things right.

I bought an Orange MSP yesterday, and I don't expect to start the mods for about 6 months, at a minimum.

That said, what you do depends on what class you intend to run in. If you are in the STOCK class (HS for a P% with the SCCA) you cannot make many changes at all: Shocks, front swaybar, cat-back exhaust, and tires. YOU MUST USE STOCK SIZE WHEELS!!!!!! That means SAME diameter, Same withs (+/- .25 inches) and same offset (again +/- .25 inches) DOT race tires are a good idea, and essential to be competitive in stock, but you should learn to drive at the limit with the stock tires, THEN put on r-compounds, and you will be better prepared to take advantage.

If you want to run in STS, wheels and tires are easier to work with: no diameter limit, 7.5 inches width limit, and max tire width of 225mm, with a treadwear of 140 as a minimum. Most of the really fast STS cars run on 15" Falken Azenis or BFG KD tires. I myself used the Falkens: AWESOME dry tire, great in the wet until about half tread, and CHEAP ($70-75 each for 205/50-15) Mods for STS are also easier: Intkaes, exhaust, full suspension, short shifters and the like. STS is more friendly to someone who wants to modifiy their car, but stock is better for a beginner if he hasn't made any major mods yet.

Good luck, and welcome to Autox.....
 
Run stock. I did, and I love it. I'll be stock again this year. Won my region first year out. I have the MP3, but the P5 should be a good HS car. I ran street tires for the first 2/3 of the season. They are much better than you think, the key is getting to know that SLOW IS FAST! If your tires are squealing and breaking loose, slow up a little and let the car do the work. Don't push the tires into submission. :)
Most of all, HAVE FUN! I can tell you already have the bug. It's a great time if the people in your area are a nice group. I've met some of the nicest people I've ever been around over the last year.
Good luck, and hit us up if you have any Q's!
 
What HE said :D

Another nice thing about running on streets for a while is how much faster and better the car will feel once you finally master the streets and move to r-compounds. I really appreciate the R tires now more than I would have if I'd run on them from the get go.
 
i just wanna go ahead and say... I LOVE THIS F***ing car... everytime i get inside it I smile. I cant wait till i pus some money aside so i can jiuceher up and get her at the level she deserves to be. Also regarding the AUTO X as far as tire presure goes what should i run for the next time ?? Get at me.
 
Stock tires, right?

In general, you want to set the FRONT tires so that they don't roll over onto the sidewalls in turns. To do that, you'll need a pretty high pressure (I used 45+ on the stock Yokos on my Celica when I got it...) and you'll want some chalk or white shoe polish. I'll explain the procedure below:

1.) set your tires to a beginning value. (I recommend 40-45psi)
2.) Mark on the edges of the tread and over onto the sidewalls with the chalk or polish. Mark it so you can tell after a run how far over the edge of the tread onto the sidewal your cornering forces have rolled the tires.
3.) Go run!!!
4.) After the run, look at how far down the sidewall the polish has been worn off. Ideally, the edge of the polish will be right at the outermost edge of the tire tread blocks.
5.) If the tire rolled over too much, raise the pressure 1-2 psi and try again. If the wear did not reach the edge of the tread, then reduce pressure and try again.

All of the above applied mostly to the FRONT tires on a FWD car. Now the hard part: the REAR tires.

6.) Once you have the front pressures set right, then set the rears. What you want here is to set the rears so they have the right amount of grip to give the car the handling characteristics you want (i.e. how neutral, understeering or oversteering you want.) Start with the rears at the SAME pressure as the fronts. Then take on of two options: raise or lower the rear pressure to get the car to rotate how you like. In the vast majority of FWD cars, equal pressure front and rear will cause understeer. By adjusting the rear pressure, you can adjust the balance of the car. This is an ART, not a SCIENCE and there is no set way to do it: it's all up to choice. In general, though, the larger the difference (in either way) between front and rear pressures, you will tend to see more oversteer. The rear end will tend to rotate better (or too much.)

When my last car was stock, I ran 45psi in front and 26-28 psi in the back to get the car to rotate more. I have seen other people get the same results with 45 psi F and over 55 psi rear. It's all up to you and your preference.

My advice would be to find someone experienced at the next event and latch on. Ask questions, get advice and learn how tofigure ot your own best setup yourself. AS you get experience, it will get easier, but not easy.

BTW, a better way to set the front pressures would be to use a pyrometer and measure the tire temp on the tire on the OUTSIDE in the LAST corner of the run IMMEDIATELY when you get back to staging. The perfect pressure for the tires is the one where the tire temperature is EVEN all the way across the tread. Riase pressure to get higher temps in the moddle, lower pressure for higher temps at the edges. Be careful, though: camber and toe play a role here: If you have little negative camber (the tires look like "I I" or even "\ /" from the front) then you will have higher temps at the outside edges no matter what you do....

But how many beginners have a pyrometer sitting around? I don't after several years.....

Have fun, make friends and have fun..... :D
 
As for tire pressures on the stock tires, I recommend about 45-47 in the front and 35 in the rear. Keep the rea from sliding out and gives good control. Remember, often times through tight stuff where you push a lot in a FWD car, slow is fast. Learn it. Live it. Love it. It works.
Good luck!
 
I can't figure out why a smaller wheel is better than a larger wheel. I always thought that a smaller tire wall is better for this kind of stuff. Course I"m just going to start too so I"m just getting advice too. So if you experienced guys say that a 15" is better than a 17" I"ll believe you, but I'll scratch my head as to why.

So if you run stock, you can't change anything right? Springs shocks, wheel size, strut bars, sway bars? THey either had to come with the car stock or not at all right? I'll have to look up the SCCA rules on modifications. But thanks for all the help you guys do.
 
pa_mp3_man, obviously low profile tires (shorter sidewalls) is better for handling.
as for the smaller diameter, i believe it has to do with unsprung weight affecting the performance of the suspension. ie with less mass being accelerated with the suspension, the more quickly it can respond to the road. And in the drag setting, it's effectively gives you a "shorter" gearing and weight makes a difference here as well.
 
For STOCK class, you can change: Shocks, FRONT Swaybar, Cat-back exhaust, and tires (DOT legal r-compounds are OK.) The wheels must be stock size (+/- .25 in for width and offset) and no added strut bars are allowed.

The smaller wheel is good for torque multiplication: it's essentially the same as putting lower gears (numerically higher such as 3.73 vice 3.42 differential gears.) It's not OK in stock to go with the smaller size unless they were available from the FACTORY with the smaller wheels: DEALER ADDED OPTIONS ARE NOT OK FOR STOCK!! The lower weight is also a factor: less weight to accelerate.
 
Ok, i gotcha, thanks. Well I think I'm pretty much ready to go and try to kill my daily driving tires in one day :). Happy racing to you guys. Good luck.
 
The stock Dunlops lasted through about 8 events for me. Then they were shot. Now I use DOT R-rated tires, but I'm glad I experienced the stocks first. I would have never understood the difference. It's well worth learning on the street tires. You'll also learn how to better handle your car in case you ever have to get a little aggressive. (Have to swerve to avoid an accident or get around something unexpectedly) GREAT experience for any driver.
The smaller tire thing, scapamouche hit the nail on the head. You can reduce rotational mass by 15-20 lbs at each corner. Less to stop, less to accelerate, and less to turn. All that mass adds up over time, and slows you down in the long run if there's too much.
 

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