Audiophiles

[FrigginGLI]

I'm sorry but I don't see where you need an audiophile's opinion. Except for Poseur's posts, this thread is entirely about bass, which is at most 15% of an audiophile setup. If you want SQ, put your money into 1) a good deck and a DSP, 2) high end component speakers for a front stage, and 3) a high end amplifier to power those speakers.

Once you have that, we'll talk about bass. A 5" or 6" sub in the right box with the right install is all that is necessary for an audiophile install so an 8, 10, or 12 is more than enough. Unless you are going for SPL or 'show and tell' then more than 500 watts per sub is overkill. If the sub needs more than 500 watts to quote-unquote "sound good" then it is not an SQ sub and you should be looking for something else.

Yea, this guy just after spl. No audiophile needed here.

 

[Poseur]

I honestly think that with the money you'll be dropping on that sub, you'd be MUCH better off looking for speakers upfront that don't sound like s***, and getting a cheapie sub. Bass is good and all, but it's truely not allthat requisite of dropping an assload of money on a sub. infact, I'd go sofar as to say that I could name the handful of ppl on this board who could blindly tell the difference between that sub, and say a kicker comp VR (this list likely doesn't include myself) and at that I bet most of them could be fooled if the box was built right. Primarily, bass is sloppy music. it does NOT take alot of money to reproduce with a fair bit of accuracy.

Also, not necc true about not ever feeling the need to upgrade lateron. a 10 W7 is a good sub for SQ, but even my audiosnob self prefers more output and a schoshe lower extension from time to time, I generally opt for a decent 12.

Essentially what we're all trying to do here is prevent someone buying a lotus to take the the dragstrip. Sure it's a performance machine and it'll do the job, but it makes the baby jesus cry.

I've heard stock msp speakers and I thought someone should shoot someone at kenwood/mazda or whoever made that decision. My stock P5's setup sounded better. if you've got W7 kind of money to play with RIGHT now and you're at all intrested in SQ, do yourself a favor and atleast just take some music around and listen to what some nice components can do for you.

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

I honestly think that with the money you'll be dropping on that sub, you'd be MUCH better off looking for speakers upfront that don't sound like s***, and getting a cheapie sub. Bass is good and all, but it's truely not allthat requisite of dropping an assload of money on a sub. infact, I'd go sofar as to say that I could name the handful of ppl on this board who could blindly tell the difference between that sub, and say a kicker comp VR (this list likely doesn't include myself) and at that I bet most of them could be fooled if the box was built right. Primarily, bass is sloppy music. it does NOT take alot of money to reproduce with a fair bit of accuracy.

Also, not necc true about not ever feeling the need to upgrade lateron. a 10 W7 is a good sub for SQ, but even my audiosnob self prefers more output and a schoshe lower extension from time to time, I generally opt for a decent 12.

Essentially what we're all trying to do here is prevent someone buying a lotus to take the the dragstrip. Sure it's a performance machine and it'll do the job, but it makes the baby jesus cry.

I've heard stock msp speakers and I thought someone should shoot someone at kenwood/mazda or whoever made that decision. My stock P5's setup sounded better. if you've got W7 kind of money to play with RIGHT now and you're at all intrested in SQ, do yourself a favor and atleast just take some music around and listen to what some nice components can do for you.

Ok, let me hear what you suggest I do with the money instead then. I've got 'hookups' for a reasonably priced cheaper single 10/amp/wired/install package. So say I go with that package, what would you do else where? Can the stock MSP amp be used to power an speakers or is it strictly a mono amp. The rear door speakers don't sound too bad, but I do agree the fron ones sound like s***. SO give me some suggestions man. I dunno bout the stock deck anymore either, it's starting to crap out again on me. Should I just replace it or let the fuckers replace it under warranty again(like 3rd time). Possibly suggest what a good cheaper sub/amp package is also, cause I can get pretty much anything at a lower than retail price(legally from a stereo installation store)

EDIT* Also, I'm pretty sure I should, but do you think it's neccasary to dynomat the doors and trunk to help prevent those rattles that can make any stereo sound cheap.?

 

[Poseur]

the $1000 challange is a good place to look for ideas. For front speakers, really just go listen to as many as you can put your ears on. I highly recommend components, and halfway decent ones at that. just take some music with you and go listen. there's ten billion things ppl can tell you and you can look up all the specs you want, but in the end, it's your ears and noone can tell you what they like. A good place to start is looking at $300ish components. JL, Focal, Boston, DLS, Image Dynamics, Diamond, (believe it or not kicker), MBquart (if you can find them still) etc are some brands to checkout. Also listne to them all as objectively as possible. often you'll find that more money does NOT alwas equal better sound. But the real key her eis to take some time and listen to speakers. make sure you have your own music with you so you've got familiar tunes and you cna really get into details. I actually have a couple of mix discs (all pure wav files that haven't been compressed to mp3 and back) that I take with me everywhere I go just in case. If a salesguy insists on bugging you, ask them if they can set everything flat and turn off everything but deck, amp and the speakers you're comparing so you can get a good ear for the speakers.

As far as your amp, YES the stock amp will work, many have done it, but it's a bit on the weak side. You might want to consider looking into just getting a good solid 4channel amp and running everything off of it. something rated say 75wRMS per channel will give you close to 250 or 300 bridged so you can run the front two stereo to your front speakers, then bridge the rears for your sub.

Currently I'm helping a friend put together a setup running infinity refrence components, a decent 12" sub, and this amp. Oh, another note, don't limit yourself to 5x7 components. 6's and 5's can be made to fit with fairly little hassle.

with dynomat, trunk kind of, doors for sure front doors at least.
ghetto-rattle isn't necc stopped with dynomat, just helped. for that you
may have to do it the old fashon way, get some caulking, weatherstripping, and whatever other sorts of foam or rubber you can find to wedge between vibrating panels, etc.

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

I plan on visiting a few places this week on my off time. I'll take a few CD's of what I always listen to to listen.

Would you suggest I ditch the stock deck to, or do you think it's suffiecient enough? I know a deck can make a world of difference

 

[Poseur]

I'd ride it out for ahwile, if it means the difference in getitng the speakers you reallywanted, or settling for "alright" and a deck, go for the nicer speakers.

mostly a deck's a deck. you're primarily looking for a signal to send to the amps. Kenwood decks aren't actualyl all that bad sound-wise, the just suck for reliability... There's not going to be a HUGE difference like there will be in speakers.

 

[anarchistchiken]

wow, audio geek drama, hahaha.

 

[Poseur]

Somewhat, yes. it WAS drama about a year ago. Now it's just a matter of upkeep. There's always noobs on the scene who get lulled by some retard or another, I know because I too was once in those shoes.

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

Well, something awesome happened...a audio store near my house had the same power wedge as the W7 I wanted with the W6 model...for half price...so there's my subwoofer, amp is coming, wiring is 4guage..and now I'm looking at a reallu nice panasonic deck and some decent front speakers...I'll power them with the stock amp..if it isn't fried. I got my blown stock woofer replaced today and an hour later everything in the trunk stopped working...lol.

 

[FrigginGLI]

Somewhat, yes. it WAS drama about a year ago. Now it's just a matter of upkeep. There's always noobs on the scene who get lulled by some retard or another, I know because I too was once in those shoes.

I've still have yet to have a problem with ED.

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

speaking of ed.............back on topic...lol

 

[Poseur]

speaking of ed.............back on topic...lol

Exactly, sorry for that man...

SO everything went dead, like your amp died or what? Seems you're fairly good spirited about it all?? Good deal on the W6, those are some nice subs. And the JL boxes are cool with the way they port.


As far as the deck.. umm, what panasonic? Personally I can say that the fairly inexpensive one I got my brother for his graduation in 98 is still functioning, but to my best knowledge their line is kinda hohumish, and there's likely more solid known value stuff out there if you're popping fora new deck.

 

[anarchistchiken]

Yeah, I'm nota huge fan of Pioneer stuff. I mean they make decent mid range unit, and I know a few people who have had them for 5+ years without a problem. I'm biased, but I would definatly suggest you wait for the new year Alpine models to come out and see if you like them. I havn't seen the styling yet, I just hope they do away with this damn touchstick thing.

 

[chuyler1]

My quick take on head units.

First, never buy the base line from a company if they have more than one line.
Second, don't overbuy. Only get the options you need.
Third, the power rating means nothing. No HU amp can compete with an external.
Forth, the basic stats that mean somthing: S/N ratio, pre-amp output voltage, DAC.
Fifth, the options that you might want: MP3 playback, Crossovers, EQs, non-fading sub output, etc...

Finally, go to the website and download the manual. Most reputable brands allow you to do this. It will show you how valuable these features are. For example, you may find out that the 3-band EQ advertised is simply a bass/mid/treble setting (woopiedo) or the crossover is limited to 50/80/120Hz (your amp's crossover can do better than that).

Brands I recommend:
Nakamichi
Eclipse
Clarion
Alpine
Pioneer

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

Well the panasonic was just an idea. It looked good enough for me, and has what I'm looking for. The one that really caught my eye was the Panasonic CQ-C9901U, it WMA MP3 Cd player/Reciever with 512colour OEL display that has changable displays. Sure, I could go with the model under it thats the same minus the colour, but I figure why not spend the extra cash and get the bling? It's a 70wx4, 5v/60ohms pre-amp out (front, rear, subwoofer), Adjustable HPF and LPF(Crossover), SQ9(9-band sound quality) with variable centre frequencies, SBC-SW(Super bass controlled subwoofer), WMA/MP3 playback from CD-R/RW, DVD/CD changer control, 512colour OEL display, Customizable colour 3DDm(3D Dot Matrix) display, Dual AUX input, and motorized and removable full front face plate.....to me that sounds good enough. I've known a few people who run them and have them without problems. I just got all of this out of the book I took, and the thing in person is amazing. I'll check online now for a link or something.
EDIT* And on second though, instead of blowing the whole stash of cash on that(just realize it was as expensive as my sub and amp together installed) I decided the lower model...thats very similar just without the colour display and a few other options either tweaked or different, here is the CQ-C8401U....http://www.panasonic.ca/english/car/caraudio/players/cqc8401.asp
Non-fading subwoofer-out, 60Wx4, Dual Pre-outs(5v/60hms), 7-band SQ with level adjustments, high-pass and low pass filter, and all sortsa other cool s***. Best part is it's half the price of the super neat one I saw, and prolly still has more options than I'd ever learn to fully utilize. But end point is it has what I needs, and I needs what it has.


Yeah the sub/amp just stopped working so I figured it was a sign...a sign to go spend. I'll check it out, maybe I just lost a connection somewhere but nothing works back there. I hope I didn't fry the amp, but I'm not gonna go crying into my cereal if it is. s*** happens, and for a reason usually. This reason was so I'd go spend a large sum of money on some decent stereo stuff....now the hunt for components begins. I'm liking the JL components...but refresh my memory, what fits in our doors..both just fit right in and minor modification.

My car is gonna be sounding good inside. The place I'm getting to install has a fair rate and said they'll dynamat my trunk for free since I'm buying so much from them.

 

[chuyler1]

You can fit a 5x7, 6x8, 4, 5.25, or 6.5 without cutting any metal. Mounting depth isn't a concern unless you are looking at high-end 6.5s with large magnet structures. The average 6.5 will fit fine though.

The 4, 5.25, and 6.5 installs require you to build an oval baffle with a round cutout for the speaker. Its not that difficult. You can do it with a jig saw, a drill, and a steady hand.

 

[Poseur]

I forgot aobut panny's Digital HU amps.. you might be able to actually get about 22w of real power out of thatone in which case it could help you get by until you can get an amp. I've got no idea how they really sound, really nowhere locally carries them.

as far as fitting speakers... http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73605&highlight=6-3/4 6's will fit, 5-1/4's are evne easier. Matter of fact alot of companies are throwing in plates with 5-1/4's now. I got some with my Kickers.. (really, it seems silly, but if you can find anywher earound who's got some SS's on the board, put your ears on 'em. They'r eprettymuch everything I like about Focals as far as midrange with what I think to be a nicer tweeter. Soft domes just do it for me...

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

I'll let ya know if there is a sound improvement over stock with the Panasonic on just the speakers(stock)....then I'll tell ya how it sounds with the woofer too

 

[mazdaspeedpower]

If all goes well sometime next week I'll be doing the deck and woofer/amp...and if money permits new fronts. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like

 

[Scott D.]

And back on topic, while searching for HU's, I'd say not to get a Panasonic. To tell you the truth, I'm not impressed by mine (I have the CQ-C 8400u). Sure, it looks cool, but that's about it... I have it installed well, and when i'm hitting like anything in the 25-60hz range, it starts skipping. It feels cheap. The Xovers are limited... LPF is only 70/90/120, and HPF is only 70/90. Really stupid. I want my HPF lower, etc. I dunno, maybe there are different now... but I'd say go for a similarly priced Alpine, Eclipse, or Pioneer.