audi a4 vs ms6

T

turbospartan

Member
hey all.... just wanted some opinions on the MS6.

right now, I have a 2004 a4 USP (ultra sport package).... I love the way the car looks, and handles but.....

It is not very fast at all. This isn't super important to me, but damn this thing is slow. Sometimes I have trucks passing me. I could put a chip in it (stage 1 = $500 gets you to about 215 chp, 1+ is same but add injectors for another $300, and you get to 235 chp).


2nd problem is.... im coming up on 50k miles. Nothing has gone terribly wrong with my car so far.... the only issue i've had is that the driver's window regulator is going out, so I need to replace that (2-3 hour DIY or $300 at stealership). But, as it has been noted here, the reliability of audi is in question. Supposedly they are pretty good if you stay on top of things... regular maintenance, preventative maintenance, etc..... but there is always the chance that that one thing could happen and BAM - you have to pay $2k for a new _____.

Also - I'm almost at 50k miles, and the recommended Timing Belt service is anywhere from 60k to 80k.... and that in itself costs around $1k to do (at independent shop it can be as low as $800, stealership as high as $1300).


What I wanted to know is.... besides me searching around this forum (which I have)... what can any of you say regarding the similarities between the 2 vehicles?


I've seen a couple of MS6's within an hour drive of me for sale, all around $19k with anywhere between 20-40k miles....


let the debate begin....
 
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Audi's are good cars but you are right. The A4 regular is not fast at all. I drove the lexus IS250, audi A4, and the acura tsx. They all felt pretty slow (they all have around 200 hp). Anyway when you get an audi your paying for the name and their notoroius quality. I take it your warranty is up if you complaining about possible expenses in the future. The mazdaspeed 6 is a nice car. I love it. Beautiful balance between power, comfort, and control. If thats what your after then this is a good car for you. If you want a car for pure speed and modding potential than I would suggest an evo or an sti.

As for the similarities . . . not too many. Speed 6 drives and handles better (AWD). Its much faster. It has decent crash test ratings. With the audi you will get more quality in the finish and it will hold its value better. The one thing I dont know about the speed 6 is the reliability. The car has only been out from 06-07 and there arent too many with over 50k miles.
 
Maybe I wasn't clear in the first message... but its not that I want a car purely for speed.... its just that the A4 is a pig (0-60 in like 8.1 seconds? get real). Its somewhat fun for me to drive... its "peppy" in 2nd and 3rd gear, but s***... its kind of depressing that I have a "sport sedan" and I'm getting beat by mini-vans and s***

As for the speed6 handling better..... absolutely not. Audi has AWD as well, in their Quattro system (torsen) which is from my understanding one of the most advanced awd available anywhere.... that is basically where their reputation comes from: Quattro. Plus, i've heard some people say that you absolutely NEED snow tires in the winter, and that the AWD of the speed6 is sometimes hard to understand (going over dips/bumps, while turning, etc) because it switches from 100/0 ratio, to 50/50 ratio on its own "judgement"

Here is what I like about the A4:

Beautiful car, in my opinion it is way nicer looking than the speed6 and almost any other sedan on the road today, even for a 2004
interior - best interior i've ever seen in a car (better than Ford, GM, mazda, cadillac, mercedes, etc)
handling - sports suspension + all wheel drive + 6 speed
gas mileage - i currently average about 26 mpg mixed... up to about 32 on the highway


What I like about the speed6 -

basically it seems to me like it is a "poor man's audi" - it has handling/AWD, turbo engine, and a lot of the details you would find in an Audi.
it is a pretty quick car.... 0-60 in the 5.8 second range (from what i've read)


What I dont like about the Audi:

it is slow. I've stated that above... 0-60 in something around 8 seconds. It only has 170 hp stock.
they are "known" to have issues/problems right around the 50k mile mark... which is right where I am at. This is not a GUARANTEE that something will happen... but often it does. Do I want to risk it is the question.


What I dont like about the speed6 -

I think its looks are OK. The interior is also OK, but not outstanding. I've seen a couple on here that look pretty nice, but the lines of the Audi are classic. Some people, such as myself, like the b6 model (2002-2005) audi's better than both the b7's and b8's... which says something from a styling standpoint about a car.



So, for me, thats what it comes down to..... The speed6's engine performance and reliability (if it is considered reliable - need some input here) vs. the Audi's looks, handling, and overall "swagger"



Make sense at all?
 
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ha you think the audi handles better than the ms6? get real. i drove my ms6 and my friends a4 1.8T quatro on the same day and the ms6 out handled that thing like crazy. the a4 had sloppy turning where the ms6 is tight and precise. but hey what do i know.
 
quattro is a much better AWD system than the speed6 fwd biased AWD.

i wouldnt be surprised in an unbiased test that OPs a4 w/ similar power output would outperform the speed6
 
haha give me a break. i have driven the 2 in the same day and its night and day difference.
 
im not discrediting the ms6's awd system at all.... but Audi Quattro awd is much more advanced.

Again, the ms6 has much more power (over 100hp more)... but an a4 with stock sport suspension and similar power (from a Big Turbo setup) would outperform the ms6.

I dont want it to seem like I am "cutting down" mazda or the ms6, but Mazda has been doing AWD for how long?

Audi started about 20 years ago, and they were actually banned from certain racing events because no one could even compete against the awd. Wikipedia it.
 
i was in the middle of writing a reply about the quattro system and then i accidently closed the tab. I dont feel like rewriting everything. lol

audi ruled the rally sport during the 80s.

like i said above a similary powered a4 w/ quattro would out perform the speed6 any day.
 
I have had experience between both cars, a girlfriends a4 w/quattro (actually her brothers car) and my speed6 (admittedly short). I traded in a mkIV jetta gls 1.8t because of an unforgivable amount of glitches and gremlins that had been building steadily from 55k miles. the mzr powerplant in the speed6 has earned high praise from multiple sources and is finding its way into more vehicles than just the speed series cars. It's true that you won't find many of them that have broken the 50k mark yet, but there really aren't many complaints about the engine so far. Stories are floating around about a small amount of people launching rods through their mzr blocks, but they can mostly be traced back excessive abuse or irresponsible modding, neither of which seem to apply to you.

The quattro system is a fantastic awd setup and far more refined than the speed6's awd, but a mild amount of driving skill under standard driving conditions almost negates the quattro's advantages (thought in a race I'd rather have the Quattro (2thumbs) ). Remember, on public streets awd should be used as a supplement and not a crutch. I don't see the a4's suspension as being vastly superior to the speed6's considering the Audi is a compact sport sedan and the speed6 is a heavier mid-size sedan with a taller ride height.

Fit and finish are where the Audi clearly shines. Audi is a class up and aiming more in the range of Lexus or Infinity whereas the Mazda is gunning more at the VW or Honda market. Despite this fact, the speed6 is remarkably well put together. The quality of the interior materials may not be on par with Audi, but the fitment and general tightness left me stunned. Not the rattling dash or TMPS (too much plastic syndrome) one would expect to find with a car in this price range.

I guess in the end I feel an Audi would make a great lease vehicle that you could give back to the dealership before any expensive problems had the chance to pop up and the speed6 is more of a car one could easily afford to own and maintain over the years if they were willing to sacrifice some of the extra creature comforts. Hope that helps out a little.

*edit*

I think a closer comparison between an Audi and the speed6 would be to compare it against a a6 3.2l quattro from 06-07. The a6 still has a nicer interior and the larger engine comes close to the power of the speed6. The price game gets a little ugly at this point since the average going price for the speed6 is in the low $20k range while the a6 averages in the mid $30k range. Clean lines and posh interior do seem to come with a hefty price.
 
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NCZ13 said:
like i said above a similary powered a4 w/ quattro would out perform the speed6 any day.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, a severely weight reduced and lowered speed6 would outperform the a4 w/quattro by that much larger of a margin. Now a s4 vs the above mentioned speed6 is something I would be excited to see (drinks).
 
Just add a APR Stage III+ and you be fine (12s are capable with this kit). One thing I like about Euro cars is that everything come in packages. You get the Manifold, turbo, DP, all necessary pipping/hoses and fuel upgrade with ECU/reflash/chip needed for that kit.
 
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Haha the problem with going APR stage III or better is the cost....

The APR stage III costs like $5500 for the components included in the kit. Then you also have to buy a full exhaust system, and upgrade your intercooler. So that brings up the total somewhere around $7-8k to have a very nice car.

If Audi's were notoriously reliable cars (as is not the case for most people) - I would be saving my money up to do this in a heartbeat.


The b5 (1998 - 2001.5) S4's are baaaaaaaad ass cars. I like the b6 body style better, but the engine in those b5's can put out huge numbers (up to 500awhp, yes awhp not crank). They have a twin turbo (called bi-turbo in Europe) 2.7L v6. Problem with these cars is that they are even more "prone" to having expensive problems... and if you want to upgrade the turbos? - you have to pull the entire engine out of the vehicle to do it.

b5 S4's in good condition today can still fetch up to $23k plus with stage III turbo's in them.... so yea it would be great to have, but $23k for a car that is nearing 10 years old? Not worth it in my opinion, I need a daily driver.



As for the comment about cutting the weight in the ms6.... thats the reason that the audi's are somewhat slow.... my a4 with quattro weighs over 3500lbs.... thats pretty damn heavy for a 1.8L engine with a tiny K03 turbo to be pushing.
 
Don't want to deviate from the OP but have you considered the WRX ?

Im not personally too fond of the looks but the new interior is decent and its a quality car that seems like a lot of fun to drive. Im sure the speed is more comfotable but then again the speed's 6 gears gets annoying during traffic in DD. You have to shift quite a bit due to 6 very short gears.
 
MAZDA_SPEED said:
as in stock s4 or modified s4? because a chipped s4 puts down 318hp on 93 octane on stock engine i believe(most likely)..
http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/ecu_upgrade_s4.html
Click to expand...

Stock vs stock (err... theoretical stock on that fictitious speed6). Once you start adding mods on one side or the other it becomes a race against $ spent which is where the speed6 would be able to gain an advantage with its much lower purchase price. With the cost of a s4 and a mod package you would be able to build one hell of a speed6 and that starts getting into territory this thread didn't seem to be going. Might be a better discussion for a different thread.
 
Myriad said:
Stock vs stock (err... theoretical stock on that fictitious speed6). Once you start adding mods on one side or the other it becomes a race against $ spent which is where the speed6 would be able to gain an advantage with its much lower purchase price. With the cost of a s4 and a mod package you would be able to build one hell of a speed6 and that starts getting into territory this thread didn't seem to be going. Might be a better discussion for a different thread.
Click to expand...

agreed!(fuoops):p
 
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actually mazda has been making awd since the 1980's...

turbospartan said:
im not discrediting the ms6's awd system at all.... but Audi Quattro awd is much more advanced.

Again, the ms6 has much more power (over 100hp more)... but an a4 with stock sport suspension and similar power (from a Big Turbo setup) would outperform the ms6.

I dont want it to seem like I am "cutting down" mazda or the ms6, but Mazda has been doing AWD for how long?

Audi started about 20 years ago, and they were actually banned from certain racing events because no one could even compete against the awd. Wikipedia it.
Click to expand...
 
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