ATX P5 Turbo Build by Richs970
- Thread starter richs970
- Start date
No, no. I bought the 14mm banjo bolt that someone linked in the "turbo your P5" sticky thread. It's my own fault for not checking, but it's 12mm not 14mm for the stock coolant tap on the upper passenger side of the block. Anyways, I wound up using the Stock MSP banjo, which has a barbed fitting on the back of the bolt for the oil cooler, and I just plugged the end of the barb with a hose cap and clamp. Anyway, the hose cap burst open and coolant was pouring out.
Fixed it today by clamping on some fuel line and putting a bolt w/thread sealer into the fuel line. It's wayyyy more sturdy than what I had done before. Thank god I was able to reach the banjo without takin anything apart. All I did was unbolt the alternator.
Anyways, everything's ok now except the AFR. Seems like my voltage clamp is still not doin it's job, but maybe not......
Can someone please clarify for me which line the fuel pressure gauge should be on, ad which line the begi should be on. There is one line running straight into the fuel rail from right to left (looking from the front of the car), and there is one line coming out of the fuel rail at a right angle on the passenger side of rail. In other words, looking at the engine from the front of the car, which way does the fuel flow?
I'm thinking I have the begi and fuel pressure gauge setup wrong or something. Because this shouldn't be so hard to tune
My gauge is on the line that comes up the drivers side makes a u-turn and goes straight into the rail. The begi is on the line that comes off the rail at a right angle and goes then heads toward the drivers side and back into the quick connector on the passenger side (relative to the other fuel line). I was pretty sure i had it right, but now I'm questioning myself.
Fixed it today by clamping on some fuel line and putting a bolt w/thread sealer into the fuel line. It's wayyyy more sturdy than what I had done before. Thank god I was able to reach the banjo without takin anything apart. All I did was unbolt the alternator.
Anyways, everything's ok now except the AFR. Seems like my voltage clamp is still not doin it's job, but maybe not......
Can someone please clarify for me which line the fuel pressure gauge should be on, ad which line the begi should be on. There is one line running straight into the fuel rail from right to left (looking from the front of the car), and there is one line coming out of the fuel rail at a right angle on the passenger side of rail. In other words, looking at the engine from the front of the car, which way does the fuel flow?
I'm thinking I have the begi and fuel pressure gauge setup wrong or something. Because this shouldn't be so hard to tune
My gauge is on the line that comes up the drivers side makes a u-turn and goes straight into the rail. The begi is on the line that comes off the rail at a right angle and goes then heads toward the drivers side and back into the quick connector on the passenger side (relative to the other fuel line). I was pretty sure i had it right, but now I'm questioning myself.
Last edited:
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
Rich a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a few pics of the begi setup and we'll be able to help yo more. If you soldered the o2 clamp, the next place to troubleshoot is that begi unit so you're on the right track. We'll get ya fixed up. I drove around for a week and a half trying to figure my s*** out lol.
Ok so I was away in Chicago for a week and then super busy at work. Plus my camera broke so I couldn't even get any pictures up in the last two weeks. Anyways here it is. After doing a little more research I'm confident I have everything installed right:
Fuel line setup
Fuel Pressure Gauge Location (that blob on the left is my coldpipe and to the right is the battery
My dad has been helping me out the whole build, and helping me tune the car so he drove it twice while I was in Chicago. Said it was bucking a little before hitting boost. So obviously I took it for a ride this morning to see what he meant. I'd hit the gas, and it'd buck without really hitting boost, even though the boost gauge was rising. Then, I heard air release.... Turns out I blew a coupler. I'm hoping that that is what caused the bucking to begin with. I'm assuming that the engine was getting inconsistent pockets of compressed air since the coupler was on the verge of disconnecting. What do you guys think?
Right now I'm waiting for everything to cool off so I can get in there and reconnect the coupler.
Fuel line setup
Fuel Pressure Gauge Location (that blob on the left is my coldpipe and to the right is the battery
My dad has been helping me out the whole build, and helping me tune the car so he drove it twice while I was in Chicago. Said it was bucking a little before hitting boost. So obviously I took it for a ride this morning to see what he meant. I'd hit the gas, and it'd buck without really hitting boost, even though the boost gauge was rising. Then, I heard air release.... Turns out I blew a coupler. I'm hoping that that is what caused the bucking to begin with. I'm assuming that the engine was getting inconsistent pockets of compressed air since the coupler was on the verge of disconnecting. What do you guys think?
Right now I'm waiting for everything to cool off so I can get in there and reconnect the coupler.
Got the piping hooked back up, and took her for a drive. Still got the bucking feeling. I could feel and hear the engine rpm going up and down during acceleration. Really weird feeling. It also seemed like one time the engine rpm rose pretty high, but there was no power. Hope the transmission isn't damaged....Anyone ever experienced this? I have no idea what do to next.
I've had this happen.
You'll throw cels pretty soon, p103 will be the first.
The atx ecu does not like seeing boost above 4 psi. When it does it see boost beyond 4 psi it goes into fuel cut, thus the abrupt bucking.
This was the case for me whenever i really got on the pedal. slowly building boost up to 4-6 psi didn't give me this problem.
my solution around it was the AFC and 440cc injectors,
use the afc to lower the maf readings to prevent fuel cut and have the 440's delivering extra fuel to compensate for the lower voltages from the afc.
try setting up the maf in pull through rather than blow through.
Yeah that makes sense. If you go back a little in the thread I'm actually having trouble tuning the Begi+FM Voltage clamp setup. The car is running super lean under boost. I'm not sure if the Begi is installed wrong, or if the FM voltage clamp is shot, but it's not working. That would explain the fuel cut, and the bucking. Dammit, I need to figure out where my problem is. Anyone see anything wrong with the way my fuel system is set up? If not, then it's gotta be the voltage clamp. I'm hitting 80 psi fuel pressure at 5-6 psi boost, and the fuel pressure gauge is on the line going into the fuel rail....so I've gotta be getting the right pressure.
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
If you're seeing that fuel pressure, then your clamp is not clamping the signal. I have my old FM clamp if you want me to send it to you. Just send me like 25 bucks and it's yours. Sucks that you haven't been able to find the problem yet. Hopefully she's running good very soon.
I think I'll take you up on that...
Otherwise, this is what I'm thinking:
a. maybe the pressure wants to go above 80 but my fuel pump is maxing out. a new fuel pump probably wouldn't hurt. 80 should be enough though.
b. maybe my o2 sensor is screwed up. My hot pipe comin off the turbo is sitting right on the o2 sensor, kinda bending the end of it a little bit. Plus when I took the sensor out, I cleaned it with some starting fluid spray, which I figured wouldn't hurt the sensor at all. But of course now I'm questioning that. maybe a new o2 sensor...
c. maybe voltage clamp connections are screwed up. I soldered them all, but that o2 signal wire only had a really short length of wire to splice because the rest of it was shielded. So I did a lot of yanking on the wire in order to get my hands in there. I checked the ground that I connected the black wire to, and it was definitely a good ground.
d. maybe the voltage clamp setting was messed with (I got it second hand), so I did this:
posted by lokiel on another forum:
"I must start by stating that the FM 2-wire O2 Signal Modifier requires no adjusting, it is already set correctly by FM when it is mailed out so don't "frig" around with it if you don't have to.
I purchased my FM O2 Signal Modifer from another forum member and did not know whether or not it had been adjusted so decided to set it myself. The FM 2-wire O2 signal Modifier instructions mentioned NOTHING about the fact that it did not need to be configured (I've asked them to explicitly state this in the instructions) so I used the 4-wire instructions. They got me confused so I fired off an e-mail to FM and received the following useful information:
"Adjusting and/or testing the signal modifier...
The signal modifier's nominal adjustment range is 5-15 kPa but some can be set as low as 3kPa or as high as 30kPa so it's important to adjust them for your application. You'll need a garden-variety digital multimeter with a diode test or high-ohms setting to determine when the signal modifier is active. When set to one of these modes, the multimeter will generate a test current similar to the signal generated by a rich O2 sensor and when the signal modifier becomes active you will be able to see the multimeter reading change to a different value. The value that you see on the meter may or may not be the actual modified signal voltage, depending on the brand and model of the multimeter you're using. If you don't see a "diode" or "high-ohms" setting then look for a diode icon, which is shaped like ->|- . If using a high-ohms setting then you will also need to set the resistance range for 1-2K. If you're using a "diode" setting then there probably won't be any range options. Connect the + (red) multimeter lead to the white signal modifier wire and the - (black) lead to the black signal modifier wire. With no pressure applied to the signal modifier the reading on the multimeter should be full-scale. When you apply enough pressure to the high side hose barb of the signal modifier (or vacuum to the low side hose barb) the meter reading will fall to a lower value. It is possible that some multimeters could generate a reverse-polarity test current (although we've never actually seen one) an in that case it would be necessary to reverse the meter leads. Connecting the meter leads backwards will not damage the signal modifier ... the meter reading will just stay at full-scale even when the proper activation pressure is applied.
CAUTION ... Don't use an air compressor for testing because applying more than 15psi will damage the signal modifier.
Apply the test pressure (or vacuum) at the desired level and then adjust the pressure setting screw on the signal modifier so that it comes on but is just about to go off. Turning the adjuster screw clockwise reduces the pressure setting. If you don't have a gauge and a pressure or vacuum source, you can estimate a pressure of 10kPa (a typical value) if you have enough lung capacity to blow up an ordinary kids balloon. Just connect a piece of hose to the high-side barb and blow on it about as hard as you would to blow up a balloon. The signal modifier should be set so that it comes on at that pressure. If you want a setting higher than about 10kPa then you will need at least a vacuum gauge and a tee connected to the low side hose barb of the signal modifier. If you can drink a milkshake through a straw then you can suck all the vacuum that the signal modifier can handle, but it's quite difficult to estimate just how much without a gauge. "
I used this information to set my 2-wire O2 signal modifier as follows:
1. Set multi-meter to diode mode (marked as ->|- on my multi-meter).
2. Connect the +ve (red) multi-meter lead to the white O2 signal modifier wire and the -ve (black) lead to the black signal modifier wire.
3. Connect hose to O2 signal modifier's tap labelled High (has white wire on same side of unit).
4. With no pressure applied to the O2 signal modifier, turn the O2 signal modifier's screw anticlockwise so that the multi-meter displays its full-scale setting (eg. 1 on my multi-meter).
5. With no pressure applied to the O2 signal modifier, slowly turn the O2 signal modifier's screw clockwise until the multi-meter reports a value other than the full-scale setting (eg. 464 on my multi-meter). At this point you've gone too far so turn the screw anti-clockwise until it just goes back to the full-scale setting. ANY amount of positive pressure will now activate the O2 signal modifier.
6. Blow into the hose and observe that the multi-meter changes from its full-scale setting to another value (eg. 464 on my multi-meter). When you stop blowing, it will return to its full-scale setting.
7. If you want the signal modifier to activate with more pressure, turn the O2 unit's screw anti-clockwise. Repeat step 5, noting that you need to blow harder this time to achieve the same result. I stopped once I reached what I believe was just under the pressure required to blow up a kids balloon. Hopefully this is < 10kPa."
Except I set it so that basically any positive pressure into the high side would change the setting. So essentially, I'm pretty sure that my voltage clamp is at the right adjustment now, if it wasn't before...but still having problems.
Otherwise, this is what I'm thinking:
a. maybe the pressure wants to go above 80 but my fuel pump is maxing out. a new fuel pump probably wouldn't hurt. 80 should be enough though.
b. maybe my o2 sensor is screwed up. My hot pipe comin off the turbo is sitting right on the o2 sensor, kinda bending the end of it a little bit. Plus when I took the sensor out, I cleaned it with some starting fluid spray, which I figured wouldn't hurt the sensor at all. But of course now I'm questioning that. maybe a new o2 sensor...
c. maybe voltage clamp connections are screwed up. I soldered them all, but that o2 signal wire only had a really short length of wire to splice because the rest of it was shielded. So I did a lot of yanking on the wire in order to get my hands in there. I checked the ground that I connected the black wire to, and it was definitely a good ground.
d. maybe the voltage clamp setting was messed with (I got it second hand), so I did this:
posted by lokiel on another forum:
"I must start by stating that the FM 2-wire O2 Signal Modifier requires no adjusting, it is already set correctly by FM when it is mailed out so don't "frig" around with it if you don't have to.
I purchased my FM O2 Signal Modifer from another forum member and did not know whether or not it had been adjusted so decided to set it myself. The FM 2-wire O2 signal Modifier instructions mentioned NOTHING about the fact that it did not need to be configured (I've asked them to explicitly state this in the instructions) so I used the 4-wire instructions. They got me confused so I fired off an e-mail to FM and received the following useful information:
"Adjusting and/or testing the signal modifier...
The signal modifier's nominal adjustment range is 5-15 kPa but some can be set as low as 3kPa or as high as 30kPa so it's important to adjust them for your application. You'll need a garden-variety digital multimeter with a diode test or high-ohms setting to determine when the signal modifier is active. When set to one of these modes, the multimeter will generate a test current similar to the signal generated by a rich O2 sensor and when the signal modifier becomes active you will be able to see the multimeter reading change to a different value. The value that you see on the meter may or may not be the actual modified signal voltage, depending on the brand and model of the multimeter you're using. If you don't see a "diode" or "high-ohms" setting then look for a diode icon, which is shaped like ->|- . If using a high-ohms setting then you will also need to set the resistance range for 1-2K. If you're using a "diode" setting then there probably won't be any range options. Connect the + (red) multimeter lead to the white signal modifier wire and the - (black) lead to the black signal modifier wire. With no pressure applied to the signal modifier the reading on the multimeter should be full-scale. When you apply enough pressure to the high side hose barb of the signal modifier (or vacuum to the low side hose barb) the meter reading will fall to a lower value. It is possible that some multimeters could generate a reverse-polarity test current (although we've never actually seen one) an in that case it would be necessary to reverse the meter leads. Connecting the meter leads backwards will not damage the signal modifier ... the meter reading will just stay at full-scale even when the proper activation pressure is applied.
CAUTION ... Don't use an air compressor for testing because applying more than 15psi will damage the signal modifier.
Apply the test pressure (or vacuum) at the desired level and then adjust the pressure setting screw on the signal modifier so that it comes on but is just about to go off. Turning the adjuster screw clockwise reduces the pressure setting. If you don't have a gauge and a pressure or vacuum source, you can estimate a pressure of 10kPa (a typical value) if you have enough lung capacity to blow up an ordinary kids balloon. Just connect a piece of hose to the high-side barb and blow on it about as hard as you would to blow up a balloon. The signal modifier should be set so that it comes on at that pressure. If you want a setting higher than about 10kPa then you will need at least a vacuum gauge and a tee connected to the low side hose barb of the signal modifier. If you can drink a milkshake through a straw then you can suck all the vacuum that the signal modifier can handle, but it's quite difficult to estimate just how much without a gauge. "
I used this information to set my 2-wire O2 signal modifier as follows:
1. Set multi-meter to diode mode (marked as ->|- on my multi-meter).
2. Connect the +ve (red) multi-meter lead to the white O2 signal modifier wire and the -ve (black) lead to the black signal modifier wire.
3. Connect hose to O2 signal modifier's tap labelled High (has white wire on same side of unit).
4. With no pressure applied to the O2 signal modifier, turn the O2 signal modifier's screw anticlockwise so that the multi-meter displays its full-scale setting (eg. 1 on my multi-meter).
5. With no pressure applied to the O2 signal modifier, slowly turn the O2 signal modifier's screw clockwise until the multi-meter reports a value other than the full-scale setting (eg. 464 on my multi-meter). At this point you've gone too far so turn the screw anti-clockwise until it just goes back to the full-scale setting. ANY amount of positive pressure will now activate the O2 signal modifier.
6. Blow into the hose and observe that the multi-meter changes from its full-scale setting to another value (eg. 464 on my multi-meter). When you stop blowing, it will return to its full-scale setting.
7. If you want the signal modifier to activate with more pressure, turn the O2 unit's screw anti-clockwise. Repeat step 5, noting that you need to blow harder this time to achieve the same result. I stopped once I reached what I believe was just under the pressure required to blow up a kids balloon. Hopefully this is < 10kPa."
Except I set it so that basically any positive pressure into the high side would change the setting. So essentially, I'm pretty sure that my voltage clamp is at the right adjustment now, if it wasn't before...but still having problems.
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
My o2 clamp is also the older version which has a few more wires and requires manual adjustment of the screw. I can give you the directions for which wire goes where that flyin miata wrote up a while back.
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
Yea I have had this setup for around 15k miles now. I don't know what you mean about the maf though...
Yeah I'm not sure what you mean about pull through or blow through. I thought the filament in the MAF just changed temperature as the air flowed over it.... Doesn't seem like it'd matter what the direction is. Come to think of it, I still haven't put the IAT in though, so that could be screwing me over a little bit too.
Doesn't seem like the MAF is screwed up tho, because below boost levels my AFR is on target hovering around 14.7.
Doesn't seem like the MAF is screwed up tho, because below boost levels my AFR is on target hovering around 14.7.
justanothermp5
Banned
- :
- Rust Bucket
he means was is on the intake or on the pressure side (relocated)
Ok so Fish sent me a new old school style voltage clamp and I went to install in this morning. On the way to do that I figured out what my problem might be. A single copper thread off of the shielding wire was soldered into my connection on the o2 sensor signal wire. It was pressed so tightly against the wire that I must have missed it before. I assume that it was shorting out the signal wire. Cut that, sliced off some of the shielding insulation and moved it back a bit and went for a drive.
First two times I hit boost, ran great, hit 10-11 AFR, and I was ecstatic. Then it all went downhill. I tried once a twice more, and I starting getting a ping as soon as I hit boost, and the AFR's were dropping like they had before. WTF!! lol
I'm gonna check the spark plugs, reset the ECU and try and take her for another ride in a little bit.
First two times I hit boost, ran great, hit 10-11 AFR, and I was ecstatic. Then it all went downhill. I tried once a twice more, and I starting getting a ping as soon as I hit boost, and the AFR's were dropping like they had before. WTF!! lol
I'm gonna check the spark plugs, reset the ECU and try and take her for another ride in a little bit.
fishdonotbounce
Registered Zombie
- :
- 08.5 CWP Speed3
man. CHeck all of your connections. I'm hoping that you get it all figured out very soon. Keep us updated.
Well I think the short circuit must have fried the voltage clamp. Either that or it was already fried when I got it. I installed the new one, and now I'm running in the 10-11's most of the time in boost. It's clicking over at the right spot, and the voltage test on the clamp showed that it was calibrated properly. It occasionally comes back up to the 14's or 15's but it's hard to watch the AFR gauge the entire time. I'm about to make a fairly long trip up north so I'll see how it goes on the way there.
