Are there compelling performance mods for the 2.5??

[The Great NY]

I'm just saying, everyone else who advertises merchandise on here is required to provide a payment fee, it even costs $2 to post on Panjo in the classified. It's only right to help keep the site running $ wise if you are hoping to gain anything out of it, regardless if you sell something or not. That's up to you though I won't be bringing it up anymore.
As far as Mazdaedit being "open source"; if it was actually open source there wouldn't be a licensing fee. I'd have Mazdaedit personal and be blowing my engine up right now if it was, but it's not it's $500 or something and like $1000 for a professional version. That's like saying Microsoft Windows is open source after you paid $200 for it just because anyone can make programs for it. But then they say you can only use it on this PC.... and this version can only do this this and this (Linux based Ubuntu would be considered open source).. that's exactly Mazdaedit and Epifan. And not that this applies to you because I don't know your work, nor have I heard anything bad about you, but honestly calling it open source when it's clearly not, seems like a good way to make it easier for Epipen to make more money by enabling tuners, (who pay over $1000 a pop + the fee he get's from each license sold to a customer) who don't actually have the patience, method and know how to define maps and how they relate to each other. Then they can just mail out work they didn't do and don't understand to a customer. That's how people like Joe from Dynotronics burned a lot of skyactiv (including me) customers who purchased tuning services from him, only to receive non start files, and files that were actually dangerous to the operation of the motor and made it run like s*** literally, or files that worked on someone elses car.

Completely understand your view on being a vendor. I came to this thread because I saw something i could help with. Even if it wasn't by tuning someone's vehicle. I have years of experience behind performance on the mechanical and electronic side of things. In fact I thurst for more threads like this nowadays because this camber game got the car game in a rut! Lol.

Here is why I consider Mazdaedit open source. Yes you may pay a fee up front to get it. But I look at it as donating to someone who has done some work on something that you yourself hasn't done. Yes you pay a fee up front.

But, at the same time. He does not need to provide hex editor to define more roms or allow people to even do such. It's open source in that nature. That you're even allowed to do that and share it. Regardless of the fee up front to get it. Which is actually less than 1k. And personal version is only $250 which gives the ability to define stuff as well.

SCT, HP Tuners, Cobb, APR, EcuTek Unitronic, Diablo, and the list goes on. Do not allow this at all. He'll most of their files can't even be viewed outside their software. Their software cost thousands of dollars. To only, only be able to tune. That's not open source IMO.... I know because I'm a authorized tuner/dealer for half those mentioned above.

I do see where you are coming from. But just because you "buy-in" initially. Doesn't mean it's not open source. Just my opinion of course. But I also tend to view things a lil differently than most.

You can have all the MAPS in the world. But if you can't make them work to your advantage. It doesn't matter. My specific tunes are my namesake. Not the available MAPS that I gave away that I found.

As for Dynotronics, I don't know what went down behind closed doors between he and OV, other than seeing them get into it a few times here and there. I read great stuff about both, and bad stuff. but that's none of my business. I don't have issues with either person. All I can do is speak for myself.

I don't do shelf tunes. No matter how many files I have done for a specific car. I still build files tailored to each customers car. Regardless if it's the same make. Why? Because that just how I do business.

But I do see where you are coming from on all accounts. And appreciate the conversation.

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[BigBuckNasty1]

Just curious what the tune involves. Just fuel and timing? Not turning off anything? Ever few years I go to get smogged and find out the state has some new check that catches something my tune did. I'm talking about turning off sensors etc. didn't effect emissions but regardless came up when they run the diagnostics. I'd be curious to see synod and details on the modifications done.

 

[Unobtanium]

On the Skyactiv, a lot of the gains to be had don't just come from the god awful Open loop fueling. From my experience with tuning the Skys a lot of the more substantial gains have been had by properly manipulating the VVT system.

The normal mechanical limitations that a non VVT engine would have can be exploited far more with the VVT tables and shift around where the torque and power is.

Fact is, from looking a dozens of factory Sky files. The Factory tune is highly conservative in terms of a performance standpoint. Trade off of focusing on mostly fuel efficiency over increased power. But even with adding more focus on power fuel efficiency can be increased a bit due to the other factory focus of calibrating the vehicle for longevity. Not to say a proper tune will not keep that longevity.

Another thing about the Sky is the timing. Ignition timing strategy is a bit all over the place. And simply "smoothing" out the timing tables show an increase in response and general power output.

Fact is for the price being charged by myself and the few other tuners offering services for these vehicles. It's 100% worth having a tune updated even in stock/no modification form. Yes of course mods increase power production potential and availability. But if someone had a stock car and came to me to calibrate it.they would leave a very happy customer.

Just remember as well. That the factory calibration is made so general as to be used on all cars without tailoring it. So there is a buffer. And the factory tune is good for that. But we all know every single engine is not the same so to speak. So a tailored calibration can be a benefit.

I have looked at factory calibration logs from bone stock cars. And. The logs were proof that the calibration was not the best. I'm not here selling black magic. Just here letting you all know. Tunes work. And not just because I'm a tuner. But because it's a fact.


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Hrmmm...the VVT is tuned by Mazda specifically to prevent carbon build-up and other issues.

 

[V8toilet]

Hrmmm...the VVT is tuned by Mazda specifically to prevent carbon build-up and other issues.

Can you elaborate on how Mazda tuned the VVT to prevent carbon buildup? What are these other issues you stated above?

Thanks

 

[The Great NY]

Just curious what the tune involves. Just fuel and timing? Not turning off anything? Ever few years I go to get smogged and find out the state has some new check that catches something my tune did. I'm talking about turning off sensors etc. didn't effect emissions but regardless came up when they run the diagnostics. I'd be curious to see synod and details on the modifications done.

Nothing is turned off unless customer specifically requests it. Things like rear o2 sensors (for cars with headers), EGR to name a couple.

Some method of CEL disables actually keeps the monitors from setting to "Ready" state. Each vehicle from 2001 and up are allowed one monitor to be " Not Ready" and still pass emissions.

No inspection station has the tools to tell if a car has been flashed. All they can see is what monitors are ready/not ready and GELs if any are present.

Some places where they actually do smog. They have the tailpipe sniffer. But they have no way to tell. The flash doesn't leave a footprint so to speak.

Things changed to name a few.... Fuel targets, ignition timing targets, vvt targets, Drive by wire tables to smooth out actuation. Idle stability, rev and speed limits. And etc.

Hrmmm...the VVT is tuned by Mazda specifically to prevent carbon build-up and other issues.

There is no way to prevent carbon buildup. It is the nature of the Direct Injection engine physics to build up carbon. You can decrease the rate of build up by keeping valves hotter. Which is what Mazda said they did. But you will never get rid of it.

Although DI owners have seen substantial benefits from methanol injection to help clean and keep clean the valves.

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[sillyxone]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but there were some mentioning of turbocharging in this thread, I thought this might be an interesting read on the technical implementation of the new turbo:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/deep-dive-inside-the-mazda-skyactiv-2-5t-turbo-engine/

 

[MikeM.]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but there were some mentioning of turbocharging in this thread, I thought this might be an interesting read on the technical implementation of the new turbo:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/deep-dive-inside-the-mazda-skyactiv-2-5t-turbo-engine/

Interesting article with a lot of great tidbits of info regarding the design and engineering of the new 2.5L Skyactiv turbo.

It's nice to see an engine designed as a cohesive whole to reach HP goals while maintaining excellent drivability characteristics and reliability.

 

[V8toilet]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but there were some mentioning of turbocharging in this thread, I thought this might be an interesting read on the technical implementation of the new turbo:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/deep-dive-inside-the-mazda-skyactiv-2-5t-turbo-engine/

Interesting to read their commentary on torque at low RPM and why it matters more than horsepower for a vehicle like this; something I've preached for years with much resistance.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

A cool read on 2.5L turbo... I personally have no interest in anything turbo at this point in my stable. I have yet to read anything that states a turbo helps one reach high trouble-free miles on any vehicle.

 

[ColtX-5]

It's a 184 hp inline 4 engine that has a 13:1 compression ratio, runs on regular gas, and gets 34 mpg. It doesn't seem you can get much more out of it without negatively affecting other things.

That's kinda uninformed. The engine can be tuned to run on 93 octane and get more power and better mileage, as safely as it can run on 87 octane. Switching from 87 to 89 octane was noticeable in an older VTEC Honda I had that had a knock sensor.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

just some insight http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=597475

 

[Unobtanium]

If they tuned the suspension up a bit, beefed up the driveline, and dropped that 2.5t in the cx5 as a "type r" or whatever version, it would be a pretty neat deal! Head to head with the forester and escape "performance" offerings, with much better low end to boot! It might even edge into the Impreza hatchback market share if it was executed well enough.

 

[MikeM.]

If they tuned the suspension up a bit, beefed up the driveline, and dropped that 2.5t in the cx5 as a "type r" or whatever version, it would be a pretty neat deal! Head to head with the forester and escape "performance" offerings, with much better low end to boot! It might even edge into the Impreza hatchback market share if it was executed well enough.

True. And it would probably sell pretty well if it were priced right. And there's the potential wrinkle. Mazda can already retail an AWD CX-5 GT with options for over $30,000. How much do you think they could sell a performance turbo version for? It would cost more to make for sure. And take up room on existing production lines.

 

[Unobtanium]

True. And it would probably sell pretty well if it were priced right. And there's the potential wrinkle. Mazda can already retail an AWD CX-5 GT with options for over $30,000. How much do you think they could sell a performance turbo version for? It would cost more to make for sure. And take up room on existing production lines.

Subaru is just smarter, I guess. They know how to do things right, with regard to that issue. The Forester 2.0XT starts under $30K. Mazda should figure it out, for all of their bluster about "zoom-zoom".
Oh, the base price of a Forester is $22,395, and CX5, $21,795, lest you think the base vehicles differ much in cost. So...your move, Mazda...

 

[MikeM.]

Subaru is just smarter, I guess. They know how to do things right, with regard to that issue. The Forester 2.0XT starts under $30K. Mazda should figure it out, for all of their bluster about "zoom-zoom".

~~~~~~~~~(blah)

 

[OVT]

Hey everyone, been reading through this post, and want to clarify just how important it is that when you are looking to tune your skyactiv, you choose someone with actual experience. I'm not bashing anyone it's just important that accurate information is posted.

For example...
- There is no "god awful open loop fueling". Thes engines run FULL TIME closed loop control, even at WOT. This is basic skyactiv knowledge... The only time open loop is active is during decel, where fueling isn't even a factor to performance at all.
- The fuel maps in mazdaedit are 100% wrong, it is also missing every single fuel table that is critically important to tuning these. The only maps it gives are part load transitions maps, incorrectly labeled.
- These engines have been designed specifically to keep the intake valves at an optimum temperature to help burn off valve deposits, fueling strategies and VVT strategies are in place to help this. There are certain VVT angles specifically designed to maximize fueling strategies.
-Ignition timing is not all over the place. Quite a common mistake from someone who doesn't understand the depth of the skyactiv ignition system. Here is a simple statement.. Mazdaedits ignition maps are wrong, incorrectly labeled, and the most IMPORTANT ones are not even there and must be found in the hex.
- the stock tune's inability to maximize power actually has nothing to do with fuel efficiency. The design of the engine's mechanical parts plays the biggest part in that. The stock tunes main focus is HEAT control, cylinder temperatures, catalyst temperatures, etc. All fueling strategies, timing strategies revolve around heat control and pre-ignition control, along with detonation. a "must know" if you tune these.
-You can significantly reduce valve deposits by altering intelligent warm-up, where most of the valve deposits take place, when the valves are too cold. You can't completely get rid of it, but you can make significant reductions.


More and more people are messaging us and emailing us to come to this forum to clear up some incorrect information. These engines simply can't be tuned like other engines. There is quite complex systems at work inside the ECU that must be understood if you care about the long term reliability of your engine. We should consider bumping prices up considering the cost of tunes out there with totally wrong information lol....

 

[Unobtanium]

~~~~~~~~~(blah)

Facts can suck...maybe Mazda can figure it out.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Well the OVT turbo manifold is complete and dyno testing/tuning has been started. Latest update is 220whp on the 2.p0op. They plan on realsing a basic version of lower boost, then a higher output version with meth injection. This is a forum members car.

 

[JimKJSVTCX-5]

Is there a basic tune that is worth it? PM me if you want

Hey everyone, been reading through this post, and want to clarify just how important it is that when you are looking to tune your skyactiv, you choose someone with actual experience. I'm not bashing anyone it's just important that accurate information is posted.

For example...
- There is no "god awful open loop fueling". Thes engines run FULL TIME closed loop control, even at WOT. This is basic skyactiv knowledge... The only time open loop is active is during decel, where fueling isn't even a factor to performance at all.
- The fuel maps in mazdaedit are 100% wrong, it is also missing every single fuel table that is critically important to tuning these. The only maps it gives are part load transitions maps, incorrectly labeled.
- These engines have been designed specifically to keep the intake valves at an optimum temperature to help burn off valve deposits, fueling strategies and VVT strategies are in place to help this. There are certain VVT angles specifically designed to maximize fueling strategies.
-Ignition timing is not all over the place. Quite a common mistake from someone who doesn't understand the depth of the skyactiv ignition system. Here is a simple statement.. Mazdaedits ignition maps are wrong, incorrectly labeled, and the most IMPORTANT ones are not even there and must be found in the hex.
- the stock tune's inability to maximize power actually has nothing to do with fuel efficiency. The design of the engine's mechanical parts plays the biggest part in that. The stock tunes main focus is HEAT control, cylinder temperatures, catalyst temperatures, etc. All fueling strategies, timing strategies revolve around heat control and pre-ignition control, along with detonation. a "must know" if you tune these.
-You can significantly reduce valve deposits by altering intelligent warm-up, where most of the valve deposits take place, when the valves are too cold. You can't completely get rid of it, but you can make significant reductions.


More and more people are messaging us and emailing us to come to this forum to clear up some incorrect information. These engines simply can't be tuned like other engines. There is quite complex systems at work inside the ECU that must be understood if you care about the long term reliability of your engine. We should consider bumping prices up considering the cost of tunes out there with totally wrong information lol....

 

[davesxx01]

James, yes, there is a basic tune you can get.

https://www.ovtuned.com/collections/mazda-tune-kits/products/mazda-bench-flash-all-models

Ya order this and give him a list of your mods and the octane you will use and a 1 day turn around then your set!