Are AP maps track-worthy?

[Parkeway]

Romped the car yesterday for the first time on a Stage 1 map (Nano and Cobb inlet installed). Car pulled great but on an incline, car pulled hard and then "POP"! Car violently lost power for a second.

Checked all hoses: tight as a frog's a$$. Boost log showed it hit 22.7 (!). I am thinking boost cut and the pop was the BOV letting go?

Question is this: Is anyone confident enough in the maps to run them on track-days? The one time I get on it, I almost blow the car up. Doesn't bode well for a whole day of WOT.

(Better question may be "Is my tune track-worthy?")

 

[AutoEuphoria]

That was fuel/boost cut. 22.7psi is way more than that map should allow. Isn't it set for a peak boost target of 18 or so? I think they move the boost cut value to 20psi, so you probably hit that, which may have caused a backfire (the pop). I'm going to keep my mouth shut on the AP because I do think it's a good unit with potential if a custom tune is applied...but let me just say I had the same issues you are having and decided to go a different route.

 

[dread]

Are you running the stage 1 map or stage 1+. You need to tweak your tune if you are going to use the nano intake. The MAF is the most important sensor in this car and if your map is not properly calibrated for your intake it will run like s***. Get ATR and calibrate your MAF, see how it drives and then improve it from there.

 

[eg6motion]

Romped the car yesterday for the first time on a Stage 1 map (Nano and Cobb inlet installed). Car pulled great but on an incline, car pulled hard and then "POP"! Car violently lost power for a second.

Checked all hoses: tight as a frog's a$$. Boost log showed it hit 22.7 (!). I am thinking boost cut and the pop was the BOV letting go?

Question is this: Is anyone confident enough in the maps to run them on track-days? The one time I get on it, I almost blow the car up. Doesn't bode well for a whole day of WOT.

(Better question may be "Is my tune track-worthy?")

didn't Cobb specifically say that the Nano cannot be used the same as their SRI?

ah, found it...
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123732673

so don't use the stock maps...

 

[Parkeway]

Are you running the stage 1 map or stage 1+. You need to tweak your tune if you are going to use the nano intake. The MAF is the most important sensor in this car and if your map is not properly calibrated for your intake it will run like s***. Get ATR and calibrate your MAF, see how it drives and then improve it from there.

Will do.

I failed to mention I flashed the 1+ after the 22.7 "pop" and the car behaved a tad better but still hiccuped and stuttered. I think I was being cautious and that's the reason.

Whatever the case, did that boost cut/fuel cut/backfire/POW! do any damage to BOV or internals that I need to check?

 

[Parkeway]

didn't Cobb specifically say that the Nano cannot be used the same as their SRI?

ah, found it...
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123732673

so don't use the stock maps...

Guess then I should return to the Stock map until a get a custom tune?

 

[eg6motion]

Guess then I should return to the Stock map until a get a custom tune?

or try the stock maps to see how they respond. Best thing to do is probably try the stock maps, datalog to see how things are doing and maybe try their tuner software. Otherwise a custom tune is always the best.

 

[fastdreams]

I haven't had a problem running cobb ap ots tunes at track days.

mscai2 + cpe catted dp + cobb ap. Does fine.

 

[dread]

If you were using stage 1 of course you are going to get huge boost spikes. Stay on the stage 1+ map and let it settle for 100 miles. Then do some logging and I can tell you how good or bad your car likes the map.
You will want to log ltft, stft, rpm, relative throttle pos., boost, actual a/f ratio, wastegate, fuel pressure and knock retard.

 

[eg6motion]

I haven't had a problem running cobb ap ots tunes at track days.

mscai2 + cpe catted dp + cobb ap. Does fine.

you have a setup that closely matches their OTS notes....he doesn't.

 

[fastdreams]

you have a setup that closely matches their OTS notes....he doesn't.

True. Though I am running the stage 2 + SF 93 map now with throttle smoothing applied via ATR. It was fine without smoothing btw, that just makes it far better putting around town.

But you highlight the issue - he needs to get the right tune for the right parts, or tweak it to match.

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

check your fuel pressure with a WOT pull. mine went from 1700 to about 800 and realized....i need new fp.

 

[eg6motion]

True. Though I am running the stage 2 + SF 93 map now with throttle smoothing applied via ATR. It was fine without smoothing btw, that just makes it far better putting around town.

But you highlight the issue - he needs to get the right tune for the right parts, or tweak it to match.

yep. I am tempted to get an AP, but had orig planned on waiting a year or so more. Their software sounds very easy to use so that you can tune the car yourself. At least refine-tune it using their maps as a base.

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

yep. I am tempted to get an AP, but had orig planned on waiting a year or so more. Their software sounds very easy to use so that you can tune the car yourself. At least refine-tune it using their maps as a base.

the good thing about their self tuner is you load up the map you want...either stage 1 or 2 or even the stock map and build from there. its great. so you can work on 1 thing at a time and build and change as you go or as your lifestyle demands. then you can save your maps and use them for long trips/track/city/whatever.

 

[Parkeway]

check your fuel pressure with a WOT pull. mine went from 1700 to about 800 and realized....i need new fp.

Fuel pressure at the peak in my logs (22.7psi) was 1666. Most boost levels around the 17-20psi range stay in the upper 1600's and hitting 1730 occasionally. Must have a decent FP to begin with.

What I can't understand is how, in a map with boost targets at 18.5, the car would surge to 22.7? (and that's just the one I logged: I think the POP happened at 23 psi at least)

Would the load have sometning to do with it? I was on an incline and in 3rd at 3000 rpm when I went WOT.

 

[Parkeway]

I do know this: Going back to the stock map SUCKS.

I love how the AP opens the car up! If I could just get it to safe, reliable (dependable) levels, I would be stoked

 

[Parkeway]

Here's a log soon after the incident - sorry if the quality makes you blind:

 

[COBB Tuning]

Since these cars use the MAF sensor to calculate load and boost targets, changing the intake can cause boost control issues. Like others have said, you either need a tune or you need to uninstall your intake and go back to the stock induction system. The stock MAP may feel less than optimal because you have an intake on your car. We cannot stress enough how adversly an un-tuned intake can affect driveability and performance.
Try the stage 1 map with the stock intake and see how that behaves. You overboosted going up a hill because you increased the load on the engine over "normal" driving conditions.
The cool thing about the AP is that the ECU's safety features have been left in place to prevent engine damage from over-boosting or boost creeping. However, repeated overboosting can cause some issues if not dealt with.
Otherwise, these maps should be completely useable on the track as long as you adhere to the modifications that are called for in the map notes.

Travis
COBB Tuning

 

[Parkeway]

The cool thing about the AP is that the ECU's safety features have been left in place to prevent engine damage from over-boosting or boost creeping. However, repeated overboosting can cause some issues if not dealt with.
Otherwise, these maps should be completely useable on the track as long as you adhere to the modifications that are called for in the map notes.

Travis
COBB Tuning

Appreciate your input Travis and the effort you guys put into the AP - I understand the differences, however insignificant, between the intakes, and their impact on the map performance now.

With the addition of my Cobb Turbo Inlet, I should start custom tuning I assume, b/c I haven't seen any maps that take it (and it's great efficiency) into account.

Good news is I received the ATR today. I will start to parse the tables and see what I can come up with before I even consider going back to stock: At this point, I couldn't handle the slowness of it!

 

[dread]

adjust your maf before you do anything else.