AP compatability

[Nliiitend1]

Look, I apologize if my attitude has been received poorly in this thread. I initially jumped in to quell the paranoia that I saw was beginning to stir after rkm0's less-than-informed rantings...I should have just left it at that.

I just want people to understand that Cobb's process of "marrying" the AP to the ECU is not uncommon in the realm of aftermarket ECU flash devices, and that there isn't anything about their methods that should make a person paranoid.

 

[mazdaspeed32007]

no dude the question is a bit more than that...

sometimes there are "special cases" that need a bit more info than the blanket statement on the website.

its a legit question.

if for some reason you cannot return your car to stock with your AP and for some reason the ecu gets flashed then you will need to send your AP to COBB to sort out. this will cost you $400.

now we all have that info and can make an even MORE informed decision.

wow the power of the innanets unleashed!

my example for everyone where you might have to get the ap sent to cobb for unmarrying is this.

i went to buy one from a person on another mazda forum and he forgot to unmarry it from his car when he sold it. he couldnt get it contact with the person he sold it to so the ap couldnt be married to any other vehicle unless cobb fixed the ap so it could be used on another speed3. the cost of this is 400 or so. maybe more....i think 475. but in any case i cant see any other reason you would have to send your ap to cobb for anything besides this or maybe you broke it.

 

[mazybright]

Wow. Reading some of the posts on this thread makes me think that car brains aren't the only brains enslaved by the AP...

First, let me give you a real-life example that actually happened to me with my last car. I turned on the ignition and heard a loud pop: an ECU capacitor had exploded and fried the circuit board, requiring ECU replacement. If I had had an AP, I'd have had to get it unlocked to use it with the new ECU.

Second, I don't like black boxes that not only tell me what I can and can't do with them, but also hijack other things that come in contact with them. Especially black boxes that cost $700.

THERE IS NO TECHNICAL REASON TO LOCK THE ECU TO A TUNING TOOL.

Third, if you think $700, or even $450, is a bargain, great, rock on. I don't. Check out sites like http://openecu.org and http://chiptuners.org and see how Subaru, Mitusubishi, and VW owners are tuning their cars with free software and low-cost hardware (basically a cable you can buy on eBay for $40) and none of this locking nonsense.

We just need to put our heads together and come up with an open-source solution, because the potential of ECU mods is just staggering and doesn't require getting your hands dirty like with bolt-ons.

 

[Nliiitend1]

Wow. Reading some of the posts on this thread makes me think that car brains aren't the only brains enslaved by the AP...

First, let me give you a real-life example that actually happened to me with my last car. I turned on the ignition and heard a loud pop: an ECU capacitor had exploded and fried the circuit board, requiring ECU replacement. If I had had an AP, I'd have had to get it unlocked to use it with the new ECU.

...which is a scenario in which I don't believe Cobb charges you if you can provide some documentation, if I'm not mistaken...

Second, I don't like black boxes that not only tell me what I can and can't do with them, but also hijack other things that come in contact with them. Especially black boxes that cost $700.

Again, obviously it's not for people as paranoid as you. No one is forcing anyone to buy an AP...

THERE IS NO TECHNICAL REASON TO LOCK THE ECU TO A TUNING TOOL.

Third, if you think $700, or even $450, is a bargain, great, rock on. I don't. Check out sites like http://openecu.org and http://chiptuners.org and see how Subaru, Mitusubishi, and VW owners are tuning their cars with free software and low-cost hardware (basically a cable you can buy on eBay for $40) and none of this locking nonsense.

We just need to put our heads together and come up with an open-source solution, because the potential of ECU mods is just staggering and doesn't require getting your hands dirty like with bolt-ons.

Well then come up with a solution. When you can offer me a product that does everything the AP does at least as well or better than the AP does it for less money, you'll have my business.

Otherwise, get to work and quite bad-mouthing the guys who've already put a quality product on the market.

 

[mazybright]

@Nliiitend1: Like I said, if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and can live with locking, rock on. I think it's foolish to spend that kind of money. You're displaying all the symptoms of owner's delusion: you've spent the money, so now you have to justify it somehow. Rather like my girlfriend with handbags. "Yes, it was $2,000, but look at that beautiful stitching!"

And "everyone else does it" wasn't the basis for a sound logical argument in third grade and isn't now.

@Travis@COBB: can you ask your engineering team if you're modding just the maps (data) or the actual ECU code (program)?

 

[mazybright]

@Nliiitend1: One more thing, the ECU does get locked to the AP, as Cobb has confirmed, so I'm hardly being paranoid or uninformed.

 

[Nliiitend1]

@Nliiitend1: Like I said, if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and can live with locking, rock on. I think it's foolish to spend that kind of money. You're displaying all the symptoms of owner's delusion: you've spent the money, so now you have to justify it somehow. Rather like my girlfriend with handbags. "Yes, it was $2,000, but look at that beautiful stitching!"

And "everyone else does it" wasn't the basis for a sound logical argument in third grade and isn't now.

@Travis@COBB: can you ask your engineering team if you're modding just the maps (data) or the actual ECU code (program)?

Uh, actually I researched the AP ad nauseum before deciding to get one, and like I said, it didn't cost me anywhere close to $700.

I knew what it was capable of before purchasing it, and still think I got a great product for what I paid for it. If you can explain how exactly I'm deluding myself, please do. (dunno)

It easily made my car faster, more drivable, and gave me datalogging, DTC reading, and live data monitoring capabilities to boot. Considering that a lot of guys easily spend as much as I did on my AP for a catback exhaust that does little more than sound different, I think it's a reasonable value.

Cobb has sold a large number of APs to people that feel similarly.

Your ECU mapping gets locked to the AP while your AP is in use. That is it. You came out swinging talking about how with the use of the AP your ECU is "enslaved" when in fact every other function other than map alteration is maintained (as Travis explained).

I for one would rather have the safety of an unauthorized party not being able to overwrite my ECU while I have the AP installed...If you want someone to be able to overwrite your ECU's mapping, uninstall the AP. It's very simple.

(deadhorse

 

[mazybright]

It easily made my car faster, more drivable, and gave me datalogging, DTC reading, and live data monitoring capabilities to boot. Considering that a lot of guys easily spend as much as I did on my AP for a catback exhaust that does little more than sound different, I think it's a reasonable value.

Again, faulty reasoning. The AP's cost relative to a cat-back exhaust is irrelevant. A $10 hot dog at the ball park is still overpriced even if the burger costs the same. In both cases (the hot dog and the AP), the price is not determined by intrinsic utility but by artificial barriers (the ball park's ban against bringing your own food and the lack of information about ECU flashing).

You can do everything except the flash -- DTC scanning, datalogging, monitoring, etc. -- with free software a $10 cable. The flashing isn't possible (yet) because that info is not publicly available, but it will be reverse-engineered soon. In fact, I'm working on it right now.

 

[Nliiitend1]

Again, faulty reasoning. The AP's cost relative to a cat-back exhaust is irrelevant. A $10 hot dog at the ball park is still overpriced even if the burger costs the same. In both cases (the hot dog and the AP), the price is not determined by intrinsic utility but by artificial barriers (the ball park's ban against bringing your own food and the lack of information about ECU flashing).

You can do everything except the flash -- DTC scanning, datalogging, monitoring, etc. -- with free software a $10 cable. The flashing isn't possible (yet) because that info is not publicly available, but it will be reverse-engineered soon. In fact, I'm working on it right now.

Again...you just don't get it. (yupnope)

Cobb has a product on the market that sells for what they've decided to sell it for. End of story. Nobody cares what you think it's worth. And actually, its price-to-performance ratio is entirely relevant. It's the reason people don't feel ripped off having bought it. A ******* dashhawk costs half as much as an AP, and is nothing more than a passive monitoring device...

There is nothing faulty with my reasoning...YOU are the one that's using faulty reasoning. You're saying that people are paying too much for a product. Your reason for thinking this is because X product (that doesn't yet exist mind you) is cheaper (or as you claim, nearly free) than the AP, which you can go out and buy right now. Hmm....too bad your solution doesn't exist. (dunno)

Cobb put in the engineering effort and time to come up with a nicely packaged product that performs as advertised. I have no problem paying them for doing that. Obviously, plenty of others agree. When there are multiple WORKING solutions out on the market, they may have to adjust their pricing. That's how businesses work. Again, please point me to another WORKING SOLUTION that does what the AP does for less money, and I might buy it. Until then, put up or shut up.