evilmonkey
Member
not for me i tap the clutch , pop it in an go, i dont need that extra movement....i guess its just driving technique. I've drag raced for years with my clutch like this....just what i prefer
Anyway to modify clutch engagement
- Thread starter black_ninja23
- Start date
evilmonkey
Member
Perhaps a stop front AND back of the pedal said:
- :
- 2007 MS3
The way to correct this is to alter something so more fluid is required to be forced into the line to move the actuator at the other end. That increased fluid has to come from greater movement of the foot actuated pump at the firewall, which means you`ll have to press down further to get the same amount of clutch movement you do now.
The best option is to dismantle the actuator and see if it can`t be bored out a little or replaced with one with a larger bore, which would accomplish the objective of lowering the disengagement point and making it feel more gradual.
Does anybody know;
a) the capacity of the clutch "master cylinder" piston? In other words, how much fluid it can displace in a full stroke of the pedal?
b) the size of the actuator at the transmission end? Again, internal volume with the clutch pedal depressed far enough so you can sit in gear without moving.
The best option is to dismantle the actuator and see if it can`t be bored out a little or replaced with one with a larger bore, which would accomplish the objective of lowering the disengagement point and making it feel more gradual.
Does anybody know;
a) the capacity of the clutch "master cylinder" piston? In other words, how much fluid it can displace in a full stroke of the pedal?
b) the size of the actuator at the transmission end? Again, internal volume with the clutch pedal depressed far enough so you can sit in gear without moving.
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Darth Vader
Member
Mats, you may not be into DR but, it is the ultimate concentration test of personal shifting ability and automotive shifting action....
MLC, the tricky bit I see is, isn't the hydro actuator built as part of the brake master cylinder on these cars, rather than a separate sub-system as on most? Hard to see back there and I have no manual for these cars to refer to.
Why, oh why can't we have a cable? Oh yeah, this car is based on a chick car, I forgot...(doh)
MLC, the tricky bit I see is, isn't the hydro actuator built as part of the brake master cylinder on these cars, rather than a separate sub-system as on most? Hard to see back there and I have no manual for these cars to refer to.
Why, oh why can't we have a cable? Oh yeah, this car is based on a chick car, I forgot...(doh)
Darth makes a valid point. Regardless of the type of competition we might enjoy, drag racing is probably the only motor sport where extremely rapid, repeatable clutch engagement is typically the single deciding factor in the outcome of a race - reaction time.
So for this limited purpose, his suggestion of mechanical double stops that reduce pedal movement in both directions, allowing full disengagement and full engagement in the shortest distance possible makes the best sense to me.
With my engagement point so high, there's probably little I can do to reduce travel in that direction, but a mechanical stop on downward movement is in the works for me this weekend. Trip to the hardware store as soon as I make a few measurements.
Speaking of mechanical stops. Those of us who used to race dynosaur carburetered cars with rear leaf springs, when they came from the factory that way also used a similar device, called a pinion snubber. It was mounted between the rear floor pan and the top of the differential and was positioned and adjusted with a threaded screw so that the hard rubber tip of the snubber was just about an inch or so above the top of the diff housing. On launch, the diff would rise up and contact the snubber. It was as effective in most cases as having traction bars. To drive on the street, you would back the snubber up away from the diff.
We don't need to lose our "institutional memory" about racing mods learned from the distant past. Alot of these old school tricks can be applied to modern cars with a little thought and sometimes work better than more complicated electronic tuning or engine or suspension nannies.
Yes, I'm a grandpa, but one who used to race a lot and still does on occasion. We need to take maximum advantage of modern technology, but not lose the collective learning from racers of the past.
So for this limited purpose, his suggestion of mechanical double stops that reduce pedal movement in both directions, allowing full disengagement and full engagement in the shortest distance possible makes the best sense to me.
With my engagement point so high, there's probably little I can do to reduce travel in that direction, but a mechanical stop on downward movement is in the works for me this weekend. Trip to the hardware store as soon as I make a few measurements.
Speaking of mechanical stops. Those of us who used to race dynosaur carburetered cars with rear leaf springs, when they came from the factory that way also used a similar device, called a pinion snubber. It was mounted between the rear floor pan and the top of the differential and was positioned and adjusted with a threaded screw so that the hard rubber tip of the snubber was just about an inch or so above the top of the diff housing. On launch, the diff would rise up and contact the snubber. It was as effective in most cases as having traction bars. To drive on the street, you would back the snubber up away from the diff.
We don't need to lose our "institutional memory" about racing mods learned from the distant past. Alot of these old school tricks can be applied to modern cars with a little thought and sometimes work better than more complicated electronic tuning or engine or suspension nannies.
Yes, I'm a grandpa, but one who used to race a lot and still does on occasion. We need to take maximum advantage of modern technology, but not lose the collective learning from racers of the past.
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Darth Vader
Member
Like any force induction car, tap into the gas a bit before the clutch engages and its smooth as silk.
- :
- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
Yup, you will have the throwout bearing engaged ALL the time.
they arent made for that, just for intermittent
- :
- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
Clutch is a feel thing, and so, personal
I would like mine even higher, and so, I fall into evil monkeys school of thought. but the resting pedal hieght does appear to be fixed.
I think, the other guys, with the pedal stops etc. prefer a fixed reference point to engage from. stomp down to exactly here >>> and reference off that.
EM and I reference from the disengage point, with muscle memory providing the reengage.
different paths to the same place
- :
- 2007 MS3
I think that for most, and I`m about to try this myself, the adjustable stop at the bottom is only partially about pedal feel. It is mostly about not moving the pedal through "dead space", which is a waste of time and effort.
- :
- 06 LS MS6
07 BM GT (shell has been struck from the roll)
Right, but I, and proly evil, others, don't jam the pedal to the floor(or pedal stop).
just past the disengage point. which is where the aforementioned "musclememory' comes into play.
my pref might go all the way back to bike days, as far as the preference. to carry the pedal stop concept to a bike, you would be squeezing the lever all the way to the handle (or your ring finger) to disengage. most guys want it to disengage as soon as they put some pressure on the lever
liquidflem
Member
- :
- MS3
I think the clutch just has way too much travel. I want it to feel like my friend's S2000.
It does. I have to relearn how to drive my brother's Evo everytime I drive it. I owned one for 2 years prior to my Speed.
6
60181
exactly. I miss my S2000. It's clutch and tranny were the best I've ever driven.
The MS3 has a lot of travel and mine engages way to close to the top. I've grown used to it, but still don't like it.
Shiroi_ms3
Member
- :
- 2008 Mazdaspeed3
Sorry to resurrect this thread but I have a question in regards to this.
I just brought my car back from the dealer, they needed to fix the slave cylinder. When I press in the clutch now there seems to be little to no resistance at all until about a half an inch away from the bottom. Before the dealership visit the clutch engaged about halfway through the travel time and it seemed to take some force to press it in. Also when I have my foot all the way down I literally move it 1/4 of an inch if not less and the clutch engages.
Is either of these normal to you guys or are these differences between the dealer visit a bit weird and should I take it back to have it amended. I feel like the clutch is engaged while I drive because of the point when it actually starts resisting.
I just brought my car back from the dealer, they needed to fix the slave cylinder. When I press in the clutch now there seems to be little to no resistance at all until about a half an inch away from the bottom. Before the dealership visit the clutch engaged about halfway through the travel time and it seemed to take some force to press it in. Also when I have my foot all the way down I literally move it 1/4 of an inch if not less and the clutch engages.
Is either of these normal to you guys or are these differences between the dealer visit a bit weird and should I take it back to have it amended. I feel like the clutch is engaged while I drive because of the point when it actually starts resisting.
liquidflem
Member
- :
- MS3
Sounds like they didn't bleed your clutch fluid correctly.
Shiroi_ms3
Member
- :
- 2008 Mazdaspeed3
thanks for the quick reply guys I will make sure to give them a call first thing in the morning and then drop it off asap to have it fixed.
