And in other news on the Mazda diesel engine front...
- Thread starter paris1
- Start date
I know that many feel that diesels provide better "real world" power, or that the power band is more accessible in every day driving. Others love the after market tune-ability of diesels.
Having said that, in my opinion, the 2.2L 173 (american hp) diesel that Mazda offers in the CX-5 is not quick enough when paired with the automatic to satisfy american tastes.
The CX-5 diesel in the UK with automatic takes 9.4 seconds to get to 60!
The 2.5L automatic does it in well under 8s
Mazda got to experience first hand, with the 2.0L cx-5 that most people in this market are not happy with a 9+ second 0-60 time.
When taking into account the large extra cost, and increased curb weight of the diesel, it makes sense to me that Mazda does not think that it will provide the "zoom zoom" that customers expect.
So, in my speculation, Mazda went back to the drawing board and is playing with Urea injection to allow them to squeeze more power out of the diesel while still meeting emission targets.
Unfortunately, Urea injection further increases the cost of the diesel model and further weakens the business case for bringing the diesel stateside.
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- 23 CX-5 Premium
Very well stated. Have to say, this fixation we Americans have (and I include myself in this) on "naught to 60" times is really rather short-sighted. Being of a certain age, I can remember back in the "bad old days" of emission-strangled 70s-80s engines when it was all a car could do to make it to 60 in ten seconds. As long as it could do that, auto journalists and buyers were satisfied. Nowadays the acceptable norm has dropped to the sevens and eights and if a given drive train can't make the grade, everyone is up in arms. Europeans, having always to deal with the limitations of small displacement 4 cylinders, are much easier to please. That's why the initial 2.0 petrol CX-5 was much more acceptable there and the diesels were available for more torque, but as mentioned, not necessarily better acceleration. Had the 2.5 been available when I bought my 2013, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, but I can honestly say I have never regretted being "stuck" with the lowly 2.0 coupled with the 6AT. For everyday use it is perfectly adequate and can hold its own in spirited driving just as, I suspect, the diesel version can. If we can just get past this incessant need to compare cars and learn to judge them on the strength of their individual merits! Probably never going to happen though.
I'm not really buying that at all, I test drove the gas and both diesel versions, the difference between the gas and diesel was night and day, maybe not the numbers, but the ease of driving and the feeling. By this I mean, if I want to join the highway in my car, I leave it in 5th, join the ramp and 35mph, put my foot down and merge in at 80 mph without much effort, then put it in 6th. If I want to do that in the gas, I need to be in 2nd, rev to the red line, up to 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. The diesel gives you much more accessible performance. The vast majority of owners don't care about performance numbers on paper.
I can honestly see diesels becoming unpopular here, there is a lot of negative press about them, new health scares, I think this is similar in the uk too. I only bought a diesel as it was one of the few "slightly" used models on the market and was within my budget (pay upward of 40k for one here) and the gas version just didn't have enough torque for me. I do 5000miles a year, so mpg is not a priority, indeed, the new CX5 here comes with the 2.5 gas, but only in AT and I really only enjoy MT.
This is a massive risk for Mazda.
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- 23 CX-5 Premium
Why is this a "massive risk"? It's a different market and you've made a fine case for the virtues of the diesel. Problem for Mazda is overcoming Japanese reluctance to buy diesel. That much is true!
Please Guys, don't be so impatient to have the Diesel Version in the US because we are having here in Europe a lot of problems with the SkyActive 2.2 engine in both versions 150hp and 175hp.
The issues are not yet explained by Mazda and they are not providing a lot of information about that. To summarize, some engines after an undefined number of Kms stop working and there are several issues:
- Lack of turbo Power
- Broken Turbo
- Camshaft with unexepcted and abnormal Wear
Most of the times, The Camshaft and the turbo and sometimes the "Vacuum pump"(sorry for the translation! ) must be changed.
Picture of a damaged Camshaft : http://staticclub.caradisiac.com/1/...5236684676/cx5-nockenwelledefekt74jto-big.jpg
The issues are not yet explained by Mazda and they are not providing a lot of information about that. To summarize, some engines after an undefined number of Kms stop working and there are several issues:
- Lack of turbo Power
- Broken Turbo
- Camshaft with unexepcted and abnormal Wear
Most of the times, The Camshaft and the turbo and sometimes the "Vacuum pump"(sorry for the translation! ) must be changed.
Picture of a damaged Camshaft : http://staticclub.caradisiac.com/1/...5236684676/cx5-nockenwelledefekt74jto-big.jpg
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I have had this issue rectified by Mazda at 90k klms and I am aware this is going to be a major problem for people with the early versions of the Diesel Engine.
I first noticed a problem when I was stopped on a hill. My foot on the brake pedal was slowly dropping to the floor. I had to keep pumping it to keep the pressure on. After my local Mazda dealer investigated, they found that the problem was related to the cam shaft wearing out the lift rocker lobes, causing metal deposits in the oil which then caused the vacuum pump to lose pressure.
The fix was to replace any component that had come into contact with the contaminated oil. These consisted of Turbo Charger, Vacuum pump, Camshaft and rocker arms. I note Mazda did not change other items like bearings, rings or other parts that may have become damaged by this problem. It seemed like a quick fix to "get the car over the warranty period".
I have also since learned that in Australia, owners of these particular model vehicles will be receiving a letter to inform them of the problem and they will be required to bring in their vehicle to have it repaired. If I was one of these customers, I would be demanding a entirely new engine.
Mazda Australia wont be advertising this as a "Recall", instead only contacting certain customers, probably only the ones that have done high kilometres. As for the other people who have not done much driving yet, their car will be out of warranty by the time they notice anything wrong and because this isn't a Recall, they wont know about the problem.
Here is an extra tip for any Australian owners of these vehicles - Consumer Affairs : Check their website BEFORE you take the car back to Mazda. If you have a MAJOR MALFUNCTION of your vehicle within the warranty period and you purchased it new, you are entitled to either a REPLACEMENT or REFUND. The trick is DONT TAKE THE CAR BACK TO MAZDA. Get it checked by a independent car servicing company and pay for a written report, then take the report to Mazda and demand a replacement or refund.
I made the mistake by calling Mazda to tell them I had a problem and they instructed me to bring it in so they could have a look. Once you drop the car into them, you are giving them permission to repair the problem and then its too late.
I hope this helps someone.
I first noticed a problem when I was stopped on a hill. My foot on the brake pedal was slowly dropping to the floor. I had to keep pumping it to keep the pressure on. After my local Mazda dealer investigated, they found that the problem was related to the cam shaft wearing out the lift rocker lobes, causing metal deposits in the oil which then caused the vacuum pump to lose pressure.
The fix was to replace any component that had come into contact with the contaminated oil. These consisted of Turbo Charger, Vacuum pump, Camshaft and rocker arms. I note Mazda did not change other items like bearings, rings or other parts that may have become damaged by this problem. It seemed like a quick fix to "get the car over the warranty period".
I have also since learned that in Australia, owners of these particular model vehicles will be receiving a letter to inform them of the problem and they will be required to bring in their vehicle to have it repaired. If I was one of these customers, I would be demanding a entirely new engine.
Mazda Australia wont be advertising this as a "Recall", instead only contacting certain customers, probably only the ones that have done high kilometres. As for the other people who have not done much driving yet, their car will be out of warranty by the time they notice anything wrong and because this isn't a Recall, they wont know about the problem.
Here is an extra tip for any Australian owners of these vehicles - Consumer Affairs : Check their website BEFORE you take the car back to Mazda. If you have a MAJOR MALFUNCTION of your vehicle within the warranty period and you purchased it new, you are entitled to either a REPLACEMENT or REFUND. The trick is DONT TAKE THE CAR BACK TO MAZDA. Get it checked by a independent car servicing company and pay for a written report, then take the report to Mazda and demand a replacement or refund.
I made the mistake by calling Mazda to tell them I had a problem and they instructed me to bring it in so they could have a look. Once you drop the car into them, you are giving them permission to repair the problem and then its too late.
I hope this helps someone.
Following on from the above, the German forum that I am active in has a wealth of information regarding the diesel, there are many problems reported. If you want you can use the forum through a translation site and the mojority will be understandable.
Here is a link the the Turbo problems being recorded on that site. This is only for turbo damage that has been caused by camshaft problems.
http://www.cx5-forum.de/f11/schaden-nockenwelle-folgeschaden-turbolader-etc-2715.html
Forum page
http://www.cx5-forum.de/f11/
There is a big list of problems in the technical section of the forum, I have most of these problems! Creaking brakes, jumping out of reverse gear, notchy gear shifts, premature tyre wear etc etc. The car will be getting changed bfore my 5 year warranty runs out!
Yes, I am considering the 2.5L next time, but it's only available in Switzerland in a AT from 2015, so I think I will drop the CX5 altogether and go to a petrol estate car.
Here is a link the the Turbo problems being recorded on that site. This is only for turbo damage that has been caused by camshaft problems.
http://www.cx5-forum.de/f11/schaden-nockenwelle-folgeschaden-turbolader-etc-2715.html
Forum page
http://www.cx5-forum.de/f11/
There is a big list of problems in the technical section of the forum, I have most of these problems! Creaking brakes, jumping out of reverse gear, notchy gear shifts, premature tyre wear etc etc. The car will be getting changed bfore my 5 year warranty runs out!
Yes, I am considering the 2.5L next time, but it's only available in Switzerland in a AT from 2015, so I think I will drop the CX5 altogether and go to a petrol estate car.
Yeah, here in America people like to butch & moan till they get what they want, then lawyer up and sue when it doesn't go their way. hate to say it but it's true. Mazda knows with all those problems you guys are having with the diesel, they'd be in big trouble here in the US. They are smart to hold off.
Bob-Loblaw
Member
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- 2016 CX-5 GT
Well I'm sorry for all the trouble everyone is having. I bought a Jetta TDI Sportwagon the second they were available here in the states. I was in the TDI Club forums for several months tracking the vehicle before it arrived. It was my wife's car so I didn't get the full experience but the maintenance cost was really expensive from what I remember and the fluctuating diesel prices can be irritating. It seemed like 9 months out of the year, Diesel was more expensive than 92 unleaded. Then for 3 months in the Summer it would fall below 87. Plus you can't get diesel everywhere. The torque and power were nice but nothing crazy. I know the TDI's are famous for reliability though. I decided that a diesel option was not that important to me on this car and after reading this, I'm glad I didn't have the choice.
