ALL clunking noise solutions.

[Kooldino]

$200? Are you guys NUTS? They're little peices of poly/rubber???!!!

Kartboy: Assuming that they would be in the same cost range for you to make as the shifter bushings, then $25 for the rear set should work, if it's just two little bushings. Maybe a little more $ for the fronts if they're harder to do. I don't understand where they're coming up with this $200 number from...

The main thing we want is something that won't make any noise. Ever. If urethane has potential to make noise, don't bother with it. What materials do you have to work with? What are the ups/downs?

 

[saided18]

what would be nice is to have Greaseable bushing like energy has. you know with a niple to put the grease gun up too.



also energy has universal sway bar bushings. they have two types and you have to see which type your bushing is. so i don't know. i don't know what the bushings look like so i don't know if the universal bushings will fit. any one with know what they look like and what the mesaurements are.

the page is

http://www.energysuspension.com/swaybb.html

 

[mazdadan]

what would be nice is to have Greaseable bushing like energy has. you know with a niple to put the grease gun up too.



also energy has universal sway bar bushings. they have two types and you have to see which type your bushing is. so i don't know. i don't know what the bushings look like so i don't know if the universal bushings will fit. any one with know what they look like and what the mesaurements are.

the page is

http://www.energysuspension.com/swaybb.html

These are exactly what I fabricated for my car. I can grease them with a gun in less than 5 minutes.

The only problem is that the outer diameter of these energy suspension bushings are much larger than the stock bushings, so the bracket has to be modified to line up with the stock mounting locations on the subframe. I also used an AWR swar bar mount block and chopped it in half to get everything lined up properly.

Also, the stock end links are junk....they are the same ones used all across the board for every model protege. The pivots on the end links are attached with plastic. With rod ends and threaded rod, new ones can be easily made.

Personally I don't have the time to design and market these, but if a company like KartBoy did, they would be sitting on a goldmine.

People with P5's and ES models with the stock rear sway bar shouldn't have much creaking and clunking. This problem is usually isolated to people with the MP3 or people who have installed the AWR sway bar. You would think AWR would have done more R&D before releasing the 19mm sway bar. To use it on its stiffer setting, all of my modifications above were essential so the car would be bearable to drive. AWR just kept giving me excuses and saying to use the softer setting on their bar, but I didn't take their suggestion as an answer. I guess this is why they now sell a 21.5mm bar with new end links and all kinds of goodies. Ok enough of my ranting about the rear suspension...lol

 

[enry]

I have never had clunking.., only squeaking.. and only when it is cold... my dealer replaced my rear bushings = no rear squeak.. but still a front squeak when going over speed bumps.

 

[INiTiAL33]

I have never had clunking.., only squeaking.. and only when it is cold... my dealer replaced my rear bushings = no rear squeak.. but still a front squeak when going over speed bumps.

you are one lucky bastard for not getting the clunk... :mad:

 

[Newf]

hmmm, awr sells a 21.5 mm bar with end links eh?

interesting.

 

[mazdadan]

hmmm, awr sells a 21.5 mm bar with end links eh?

interesting.

http://www.awrracing.com/pages/pro/prosusp.html

Look towards the bottom of the page. Apparently AWR realized the end links were a problem with the 19mm bar and revised them for the 21.5mm one.

 

[mark@kartboy]

Thanks for all the info. Certainly $200 is way too high just for bushings. If we could make inserts only, I would guess somewhere around $30-40 at most for a pair. I leave open the possiblily that a new high performance bracket may be necessary. Also, we will look into some replacement endlinks. Our Subaru models are very popular, however the stock subaru links are C-shaped plastic, and flex quite a bit. The straight links on the Mazda can be improved somewhat, but not as dramatically as on the Subaru.


Thanks


Mark

 

[LaZaBLuEMp3]

something interesting

well yesturday i went and ordered the "new and improved" bushings from mazda. only 30 bucks. there was this guy that was there and he has a 2k es. he said he has the same clunk/knock coming from the trunk. hmmm..... no clue as of why this is happening in his car but maybe it tends to happen on all protege "type" cars.

 

[70]

Thanks for all the info. Certainly $200 is way too high just for bushings. If we could make inserts only, I would guess somewhere around $30-40 at most for a pair. I leave open the possiblily that a new high performance bracket may be necessary. Also, we will look into some replacement endlinks. Our Subaru models are very popular, however the stock subaru links are C-shaped plastic, and flex quite a bit. The straight links on the Mazda can be improved somewhat, but not as dramatically as on the Subaru.


Thanks


Mark

Cool deal, Mark is back on the boards...

Urethane bushings would be cool. The front bar is a pain in the rear to get at. I'm not sure about the actual mounts, probably the same pain in the rear.

The front bar on the MP3 is a 25mm one, and the rear is a 20mm. The stock Protege and Protege 5 are 20mm front and 16mm rear...

The MSP has a 27mm front and 20mm rear.

Better mounts would probalby be nice for the bushings on the bar.

 

[mark@kartboy]

Thanks Chris, the fronts are very hard to get to, and require quite a bit of surrounding part removal to get to. Obviously, I should get rolling on some 16 and 20mm rear bushings.


Mark

 

[Toronto_Raj]

May be a stuppid question

Ok, since the front one is 25mm and rear one is 20mm why dont we try to change the size of it? MSP comes with 27 mm front one so, what would hapen if we change the front to 27 mm and rare to some thing like 21.5 or 22mm, wont the bushings grip tight one them? ( i assume that we use the original size bushings). Well, again it might be a stuppid question . i donno ne thing about mechanical stuff but i know a bit of electrical stuff though .
latez

 

[mark@kartboy]

You will actually gain more performance having a smaller bar on the front relative to the rear. Obviously increasing the size of both will make the car roll less, but increasing the rear will help balance the car better. Many stock class autocrossers will remove the front bar (legal) because they are not allowed to uprgrade the rear bar.

Changing out the front bar from a 25mmto a 27mm is about 35% stiffer (the bar alone, not particularly the front roll stiffness which includes the spring rate and the tire rate). A switch from a 16mm rear bar to a 20mm rear bar is about 140% stiffer in the rear. So, yes in this case, adding the 27mm bar and the 20mm rear like the new turbo has, would yield a much more balanced car, possibly allowing some oversteer. Keeping the 25mm front bar would increase this oversteer gradient even more.

Anything else that can reduce the compliance in the system will further increase the effectiveness of the anti roll bars. By increasing the stiffness of the bushings and the links, the amount of pre-roll can be reduced ( the amount of roll the car acheives prior to loading the anit roll bar) as well as increasing the spring rate of the bar in some smaller amount.

Of course, all of these performance improvements come with a price. A stiffer system will certainly increase road noise and harshness. This is particularly evident in rough roads; any load placed on the wheel of one side of the vehicle, is even more forcefully transfered to the other side, effectively reducing the independence of the syspension.


Mark

 

[INiTiAL33]

ok im lost here..... haha... can someone just clarify this for me.. so if i went ahead and got the MSP's 27mm front strut bar.... i would INCREASE handling?

 

[70]

Mark is cool!!

 

[mark@kartboy]

If you added a 27mm to the front, up from the 25mm, you would increase the front roll stiffness, tranfer weight forward under cornering, which will increase understeer.

Increasing the rear stiffness increases oversteer.


This is not intuitive, and many people think stiffer front bar will increase front traction, not necessarily so if the rear is not equally increased.

Mark

 

[70]

So increasing oversteer would mean having a more nuetral handling front driver (in general)??

I knew I wanted that AWR 21.5mm rear bar...

 

[mark@kartboy]

So increasing oversteer would mean having a more nuetral handling front driver (in general)??

I knew I wanted that AWR 21.5mm rear bar...

Yes. Now, in saying that, I should note that getting a huge rear bar can make a car very unstable, particularly under off-throttle in a turn. I have done some track testing where there has been massive snap oversteer on off-throttle. I spun 2 times in a SVT Contour. Luckily it was on an open track with lots of run off, as designed.

Mark

 

[70]

I didn't think that going from the stock 20mm to a 21.5mm would be to much a huge difference. But enough to be noticeable. I can already sort of get a little off throttle oversteer. Not really, the back end stands up and moves out from the turn.

Cool deal all around though. Thanks for tech info.

 

[mark@kartboy]

21.5mm is about 35% stiffer than 20mm. (21.5^4/20^4)-1*100%



Mark