Al Gore speaks on the Iraq threat circa 92'
- Thread starter Donas64
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SuperStretch18
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Just my opinion on these:Donas64 said:
Iran - Much like our own country, Mahmoud does not have the support of his people, particularly the young. In our country, this wouldn't be a big deal, but in Iran, 50% of the population is below the age of 30. The Iraq-Iran war wiped out what would have been their "baby boomers". Barring any dumb moves by the US, I think that Iran will move in a different direction during the next presidential election. Open talks are my recommendation for the moment and see where the country goes in two years. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...
Darfur - Sanctions are not the answer. Honestly, the UN (us in disguise) should be the one's sending in peace keeping troops. Talks to have neighboring countries take refugees would also be helpful. This is a tough situation though. Tribal government is complex and often rooted in centuries old mistrust; I'm interested in what others have to say (besides "fixed"...)
SuperStretch18 said:
Iran - The Mullahs really pull the strings there and while you're right about Amedinijhads popularity being really low there, I don't know if that will deter him from achieveing his objectives if he has his mind set on them. I'd still wait for him to make the first move so there can be now doubt. I don't think he can be reasoned with though.
Darfur - I agree that we (in concert with the UN which as you stated is really us) should have a far greater prescence there but I just fear that if the place goes even further down the crapper, we'll get blamed for screwing that up too despite our best intentions. And we will gain NOTHING strategically. Still I think we need to take our chances and intervene in that part of the world.
SuperStretch18
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Instead of the flame-fest, I'm interested to hearing your analysis of Iraq...Knox Joe said:
I don't argue with you about the Mullahs really holding the power, which is what makes me feel like there is a big difference between Mahmoud's talk and what he can actually accomplish. Like it or not, Iran is going to be a major player in the Middle East (bigger than us) during the forseeable future and I think not encouraging dialog will set us down the wrong path. They may not make us significant progress, but I do think that they can keep things from spinning out of control. Our president can also be bull-headed at times, so I don't think that would involve making major concessions on our part.Donas64 said:
Russia and China are also in a position to help, but lately we have been alienating them as well. I'm curious what people think about the part that they play in all this...
SuperStretch18 said:
China sees its shot at being the next big superpower. Talk about a country that only interevenes when it has something to gain and China is it. They are totally focused right now on building their Military and their economy and as long as the rest of the world is buying, they'll keep selling. They won't do anything that will deter them on their march to being the biggest dog in the yard. They might contribute a some troops (goodness knows that they have enough to spare) but I think that China, more than any other nation pursures its own self interests. And they tried to poison our pets!!!!!(no)
As for Russia, my parents lived there (Moscow) for 4 years and they just left a few months ago. I've been there twice and its a very interesting place. thats actually where I had my Green Card interview. Politically though Russia is sort of in a cold war mentality right now especially under the leadership of Putin. An an ex-KGB member, he seems determined to return mother Russia to its former glory even if he has to stay on another time as President to do so. While Russia is not an out and out ememy to the U.S, I would hesitate to call them a friend. I think they smell blood in the water with all the problems we are having in Iraq and all the in-fighting and squabbling of our politicians.
As for their role in the middle east and darfur I think they will be very much the same as China: Leave it up to the Americans and throw them a bone in the form of a few troops so we can at least say we made and effort if things go well.
Russia and China seem far more concerned with returning to "Top Dog" status than with anything else right now. Plus in both those countries you've seen MASSIVE steps backwards in the freedoms of their citizens and the repression of free speech with the cooperation of such companies as google sharing anonymous bloggers info with the Chinese Govt. because he spoke out against the govt. (he's in jail right now) to Putins regime going after anyone who dares speak ill of it and the suspicious murder of Alexander Litvenyinko.
Both of those places worry me a little right now. And I think its unfair to say we're alienating them because they are doing use as much to alienate us as we are to them. Heck Bush met with Putin to try and discuss the missle sheild with him and reason with him and what does putin do: he recommends a totally bogus location for the radar system that he knows would render the system impotent. As the saying goes you can take a donkey to the river but you can't make it drink.
And don't get me started on Venezula and whats going on down there with Chavez shutting down a popular TV station because he doesn't like what they have to say........hmmm sounds like what some folks tried to do to a certain radio show in Broward County, Florida.
Communism FTL!(no)
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SuperStretch18
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LOL, poisoned pets ftl! Good points all around btw...
SuperStretch18 said:
I have no analysis, because that's not what I do. I'm a cancer wielding death merchant.
I don't have the info, or resources to find out what's really going on. So I can't say how the war is going. Neither can you. Neither can killer.
Everyone is speculating.
Why don't you talk to some people on the lines, that talk to Iraqis and are over there?
I have, they say we are winning, and most of the regular citizens over there are grateful.
We can defeat Islamic/Muslim radicals. We can stop all the wars they are creating across the planet (please go look this up, there are wars everywhere, and about 80%. are started by Islamic extremist). We can create a safer place for the middle easterners, and the rest of he globe.
We as the superpower need to do this. We are not trying to kill their religion, we don't care what religion they have. We want what is right, just, and moral. If we have to get an evil dictator out of power, and out of our lives to do so, then so be it.
There is a price in the battle between good and evil. If you are afraid to face evil and fight it head on move to a country where they are not the superpower of the world.
FWIW I think Russia, and China will be the U.S.'s greatest conflicts.
Matthew1785
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Knox Joe said:
you contradict yourself...
"We as the superpower need to do this. We are not trying to kill their religion, we don't care what religion they have. We want what is right, just, and moral. If we have to get an evil dictator out of power, and out of our lives to do so, then so be it"
were not trying to kill their religion??? we want what is right???
well if im not mistaken im pretty sure Islamic/Muslim radicals use religion as their belief for starting this so-called holy war against the US..
i tried to stay out of this thread.. i really dont like political conflict but at this point where do you come off saying "we as a people need this" this war was not in the best intrests of the people it was in the best intrests of president bush, dont get me wrong i love my country.. i however do not like the people who run it..
SuperStretch18
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Matthew1785 said:
I think he was referring to the radical elements of the religion that believe its okay to kill innocents if it gets you what you want and where you want to go.
Trust me if there was a group of militant christians who were insistent on spreading their faith by killing others, blowing up innocent women and children and spreading terrorism all over the world in the name of Jesus, as a Christian I would give the U.S. Military my full support and blessing to go wipe them off the face of the earth if that was what was needed to keep innocents safe and stop their peversion of the faith.
Matthew1785 said:
If we have to take out Sadaam to stop radical Muslim/Islam, so what?
He was an evil, fascist man.
I'm not following you.
We need to defeat Islamic radicals. Not because of their religion, but because of what they want to do to us. Because it is just, and right.
We are not trying to convert them to christianity are we?
What's your point?
Matthew1785
Member
Knox Joe said:
I never said saddam wasn't a evil bad man my point is you can't justify going into iraq and use the ''it was in the best intrests for the people of the united states'' as a valid excuse.
Bush's excuse for the war because he thought iraq was hiding WMADs is by far the worst excuse I have ever heard for plunging a nation into war.. there was no hard evidence, and there never will be.
we killed saddam because he was an evil dictator? well what the **** why don't we just stomp right into N.Korea and do the same thing Kim jong ill, he tortures his own, he throws them in concentration camps so what's your excuse there?
Think about the lives that were lost in iraq due to this war, not only american soliders but iraqi civilians as well, last I check it was over 300,000 civilans
