Air to Water MSP Inside

[terbow]

When looking up the Spearco 2-252, I see them for over $500. Siliconeintakes has the same design for $150.

For the heat exchanger i was thinking one of these or this one.

yup, i paid 479.99 Spearco is the best core, hands down. Ill see if i can find some pics of the welds. Amazing. You know how it works with intercooler cores, you get what you pay for. Theres no way that 150.00 one is as effecient. However it will work. If you spend alot anywhere it should be the core.

i thought about the 2nd one myself but there was no way for me to fit the 7" on the msp without messing with the crash bar its 6" max height.

radiator technology is preferrred as its meant to deal with coolant, trans/oil coolers arent quite as efficient as they werent designed with water/cooolant in mind. However they do work.

You can get a cobra heat exchanger for like 50 bucks on ebay and it will be plenty big. thats what i did.

You can get an AWIC setup for like 600 but its not going to be very efficient. In a race only app, it will prolly be fine cause your using it in short bursts but if you plan on daily driving it, id spend a little more and get it as efficient as you can, or its not worth doin.

 

[Kypatrick]

hey terbow, was your MSP in Mazdasport Mag awhile back? I remember their being a yellow MSP with Air-Water Cooler from Ohio.

 

[terbow]

hey terbow, was your MSP in Mazdasport Mag awhile back? I remember their being a yellow MSP with Air-Water Cooler from Ohio.

Yessir! tis me.

 

[Rogue]

sorry to bump an old thread, but where did you get the flange for the Forge BPV? I can't seem to find that part the you have welded to the pipe.

 

[terbow]

Got it from forge. Just bought an extra one

 

[Omar MSP]

cliff notes lol

 

[Rogue]

Got it from forge. Just bought an extra one

I'm confused. You bought 2 BPVs?

 

[terbow]

No the flange is seperate from the bpv it's modular so I just bought a second flange

 

[Rogue]

Did you get a BPV for the MS3? The flange looks different.

 

[terbow]

Did you get a BPV for the MS3? The flange looks different.

its custom. the ms3 one is longer. same valve, just different flange and outlet size. i wish i did cause they dont have a gasket for the one i got so i had to use that liquid gasket stuff. also after u weld it make sure its machined true cause mine went out and it caused a leak.

 

[Valk]

oh wow, and here i thought it was complicated. heh. think of all the room you have when yuo dont have to run 12345678 ft of 3" tubing through the front of your car.. you could probalby make this all fit in the bay if you wanted, with a good supply of water even.
you have me interested man. cant wait to see a better engine bay shot with your core.

was looking around on google for air to water intercooler and the first site that comes up is frozen boost, any thoughts on their products? they offer a straight through IC about 13" long that doesnt change the direction of charge. would make for a very efficiant, turbo, hotpipe *which is the IC*, TB setup heh.

ah, i dont know much about it. keep the flames civil. ^^;;

 

[dmention7]

Terbow, I'm curious if you ever did any datalogging or anything to get an idea of the efficiency of your setup? I just recently purchased a relatively inexpensive kit (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123737872), and I am planning to look at charge air temps up and downstream of the core once I get everything put together. It would be nice to have an idea how I'm doing compared to other IC setups, both water-air and air-air.

 

[terbow]

No, unfortuneately i havent done any precise testing but i can tell you the throttle response, and onset of boost is rediculous. Also i can pretty much get on it whenever i want without the bogging of heatsoak. So i know its working but by how much i couldnt tell you. I really wanted to do some charge temp monitoring but i never really got the time to do so. And by not logging stock or FMIC i didnt see the point in starting now (no comparison data)

Adding ice makes a huge difference too. your kit looks pretty good. Ive never seen a pump like that and id be interested to see the specs on the core. I went with a spearco unit which has a .1 psi drop at 30 psi so its pretty damn efficient. but the core alone was 500.00 Let me know how it goes or if you need help with the piping route.

heres a better pic of the core:

 

[dmention7]

From the looks of it, the core design I got is very similar to yours in terms of core size and end tank orientation. The charge pipe routing is also very similar to what I had in mind. I've got to give you props for squeezing that thing in between the battery and the motor. I just said "screw it" and just relocated the battery to the trunk... hehe

One thing that's got me a bit worried is that I was thinking a 7" tall radiator would fit just fine behind the bumper, but a few posts ago, you seem pretty confident that 6" is the max height. Sounds like a bit of hacking might be in my future.

 

[terbow]

From the looks of it, the core design I got is very similar to yours in terms of core size and end tank orientation. The charge pipe routing is also very similar to what I had in mind. I've got to give you props for squeezing that thing in between the battery and the motor. I just said "screw it" and just relocated the battery to the trunk... hehe

One thing that's got me a bit worried is that I was thinking a 7" tall radiator would fit just fine behind the bumper, but a few posts ago, you seem pretty confident that 6" is the max height. Sounds like a bit of hacking might be in my future.

well anything will fit, it just might need cutting. I ddint want to cut cause i cant properly box in the core support if i cut it. I beleive 6" is the most without going below the bumper. My core rubs against the bumper so it makes a lil noise, i have to put some foam in there but mines 5.75" tall i beleive.

Thanks for the props, i had to have it there. I wasnt taking NO for an answer.

I was taking a look at the site you got yours from, im interested in seeing how well it does. Mine does 400CFM and looks similar in size to yours, but was alot more expensive (spearco is the top brand for Air to water Cores). I dont see how those cores support the numbers they are claiming but ims ure it will work fine. I didnt see a resevoir for water. If you havent contemplated it, i HIGHLY recomend it. Especially if its a daily driver. You will want a minimum of a 2 Gallon reserve. Theres not enough water in the lines, and cores to not heatsoak. If your just racing its one thing but if your DD'ing it get one. I can tell you where i got mine if your interested.

Im really excited to see how it comes out. I did mine so long ago and i can tell you mine runs great. Ive had a few people drive it and they loved it (drives like NA cause the throttle response is so nice, and the tq is all up front so it kinda just takes off).

Im a little worried about your pump, ive never seen one like that i hope it holds up to the winter . I have the following tip for you. Make sure water is constantly resting on the pump inlet. The pumps arent self priming and it WILL burn it out quickly. Make sure its the lowest point of the system. i put mine right under the resevoir so theres always water pressure on the inlet. It used to prime in like 2 mins, then once i burned out the pump and moved it its primed in 10 secs. MAkes a big diff. Also put in a way to bleed off extra air bubbles. (i put in a radiator fill in the hose and made it the highest point in the ssytem). If u have the IC as the highest point and theres a bubble it will sit in the IC and not cool thecore, even with constant flow.

 

[dmention7]

No, I don't have a tank yet. The one thing that's been holding me back is this line of reasoning: (feel free to point out if my thinking is flawed)

A reservoir will only add thermal mass to the system, causing the average water temp to rise more slowly in response to heat sources, like hopping on the boost. But you've still got the same amount of total heat energy to dissipate through the radiator. On the other hand, what I'm more concerned with is the rate at which the radiator is capable of dissipating heat. In other words, if the radiator is capable of handling the time-averaged load of my driving, I don't see a water tank doing much besides acting as a ballast to transient heat loads.

Now, without having done any of the actual calculations on the heat loads involved, it's entirely plausible that the water reservoir would have a decent effect on keeping the water temp from rising too quickly--which is, I guess, probably what you were talking about. I suppose that'll be something I'll play around with.

Pump location will be something I'll sort out once I start the install. But my plan was to locate it right at the outlet of the radiator. As for the bleed on the water line, I was thinking of something simple like a tee in the line that I can cap off or plug.


I appreciate the tips though. I know there are bound to be things I haven't thought of, so feel free to spout off any other words of wisdom that come to mind

 

[terbow]

Well the water in the tank is post heat exchanger, so it would be the coolest water in teh system theoretically, so if the heat exchanger cant get the heat out fast enough, mixing it with the cooler water in the system would be beneficial id imagine. Rather than just making it hot again with the IC by not having the resevoir. Know what i mean? The water is going to heatsoak at some point, the heat exchanger can only remove so much heat so fast but the resevoir, by having the cooler water stored in it will slow hte process. Whereas if u havent removed the heat, and put it back through the ic, it would just get hot, or hotter again.

Plus youd have a place to put ice. Unless your building an ice chest.

I used a tee too but it was a pain to unscrew a hose clamp each time i had to bleed it. The piece i used is really simple and under 2.00. Its just an inline plastic piece with a screwcap on it.

Yup lots of things will come up lol. Thats the fun of it.

No, I don't have a tank yet. The one thing that's been holding me back is this line of reasoning: (feel free to point out if my thinking is flawed)

A reservoir will only add thermal mass to the system, causing the average water temp to rise more slowly in response to heat sources, like hopping on the boost. But you've still got the same amount of total heat energy to dissipate through the radiator. On the other hand, what I'm more concerned with is the rate at which the radiator is capable of dissipating heat. In other words, if the radiator is capable of handling the time-averaged load of my driving, I don't see a water tank doing much besides acting as a ballast to transient heat loads.

Now, without having done any of the actual calculations on the heat loads involved, it's entirely plausible that the water reservoir would have a decent effect on keeping the water temp from rising too quickly--which is, I guess, probably what you were talking about. I suppose that'll be something I'll play around with.

Pump location will be something I'll sort out once I start the install. But my plan was to locate it right at the outlet of the radiator. As for the bleed on the water line, I was thinking of something simple like a tee in the line that I can cap off or plug.


I appreciate the tips though. I know there are bound to be things I haven't thought of, so feel free to spout off any other words of wisdom that come to mind

 

[Rogue]

what kind of capacity do you think the heat exchanger should hold? I have some ideas of what I'm going to use, but want to make sure they're large enough.

 

[dmention7]

Out of curiosity, how did you choose to hook up the power to your pump? I'm thinking about just tapping into something that is powered whenever the key is in the ON position (as opposed to using a switch or ACC power), but I'm not sure off hand what a convenient source would be under the hood.

Also, Rogue, it's not so much the capacity of the heat exchanger (if you're talking volume), as the amount of heat it can dissipate. Though, more volume = more thermal mass = more resistance to heatsoak. But to that end, I'd look at a reservoir, rather than worrying too much about the volume of the radiator. I wouldn't recommend any of the small oil coolers or tube style heat exchangers; rather I'd go with a small radiator with lots of surface area. I've also heard that a fan on the radiator goes a long way toward preventing heat soak during daily driving.

 

[Rogue]

I was thinking of running something like this for the heat exchanger - http://www.minisport.com.au/prod49.htm

and something like this for the car's radiator - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Civi...temQQimsxZ20090401?IMSfp=TL090401159003r11034