Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Just use the bypass connector to make it to the shop.
AEM F/IC writeup
- Thread starter Ricktalife
- Start date
Waiting on you dude
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Bah humbug.
Sounds about right. My car is still wounded. After I got the whole control arm bushing mess sorted out, my right wheel bearing goes out on me. I foresaw this a couple months ago and already have the part, but once again, I do not own a press, so off to another shop tomorrow. Hopefully, it goes better than the bushings did.
There's an EvoX for sale on the other side of town with 9k miles on it. I may be done with the MSP. We'll see how the test drive goes. I actually drove an VIII before buying the MSP. I liked the MSP better, but part of that could have been the 10k price difference.
Big Lou, I can help your tuner if you tell me how he wired it. Idle and cruise is handled by the PCM, unless for some reason you alter the low MAP (<15apsi) cels on the O2 map. So your tuner has basically done nothing. Most likely the MAF signal is still too high.
I tried every possible resistance, and drew up various static RC models to try to calculate it perfectly, and nothing gave me a perfect tune. I had to just keep tweaking the MAF map until I got it right. I already sent you the one I used with the 1100ohm resistance. That should give your tuner a good idea. Just don't try to tune anything below 4200rpms as the PCM will just add/pull fuel according to the O2. If you maps get too far off from stoich in closed loop, you'll get some pretty erratic behavior there as well.
There's an EvoX for sale on the other side of town with 9k miles on it. I may be done with the MSP. We'll see how the test drive goes. I actually drove an VIII before buying the MSP. I liked the MSP better, but part of that could have been the 10k price difference.
Big Lou, I can help your tuner if you tell me how he wired it. Idle and cruise is handled by the PCM, unless for some reason you alter the low MAP (<15apsi) cels on the O2 map. So your tuner has basically done nothing. Most likely the MAF signal is still too high.
I tried every possible resistance, and drew up various static RC models to try to calculate it perfectly, and nothing gave me a perfect tune. I had to just keep tweaking the MAF map until I got it right. I already sent you the one I used with the 1100ohm resistance. That should give your tuner a good idea. Just don't try to tune anything below 4200rpms as the PCM will just add/pull fuel according to the O2. If you maps get too far off from stoich in closed loop, you'll get some pretty erratic behavior there as well.
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
So I don't remember if jdwk already heard this or not, but thanks to 2.0T03speed I have some new hope for the FIC. He informed me that using a flying miata 02 voltage clamp and a fuel cut defender will eliminate the problem that we have with our MAF. Using this setup, the ECU will not learn around the FIC, will not cut fuel, we won't have lean spots before open loop, and we will not need to use resistors to control the MAF voltage. I will post more information as I find it.
719prottege
Member
- :
- 03 msp
good stuff
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Ahhh even more good news for me. Here is some info I dug up from a sale thread by Kraziefox
**FS: BEGi 2025 RRFPR & Flyin Miata O2 voltage clamp**
I used this on my turbo automatic P5. It's a very easy install and very efficient fuel management setup for low boost. The o2 sensor clamp disables the ECU from pulling fuel, and the rising rate fuel pressure regulator (2025 RRFPR) delivers the extra fuel as the pressure inside the manifold increases. It's a very simple setup, and it works very well.
So since I am already collecting parts for my FPR, I will just need the voltage clamp and I'll be good to go. Kind of expensive when you add it all up, but for me I really don't want to switch EMS again... so I'll do what it takes and report back.
**FS: BEGi 2025 RRFPR & Flyin Miata O2 voltage clamp**
I used this on my turbo automatic P5. It's a very easy install and very efficient fuel management setup for low boost. The o2 sensor clamp disables the ECU from pulling fuel, and the rising rate fuel pressure regulator (2025 RRFPR) delivers the extra fuel as the pressure inside the manifold increases. It's a very simple setup, and it works very well.
So since I am already collecting parts for my FPR, I will just need the voltage clamp and I'll be good to go. Kind of expensive when you add it all up, but for me I really don't want to switch EMS again... so I'll do what it takes and report back.
RunAroundNekid
Member
Going to order the HKS Fuel cut box, Flyin' Miata o2 clamp, and a new FPR sometime in the next few days.
The tackle the F/IC and start swearing...
The tackle the F/IC and start swearing...
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Going to order the HKS Fuel cut box, Flyin' Miata o2 clamp, and a new FPR sometime in the next few days.
The tackle the F/IC and start swearing...
From what I understand, if you have a FPR you won't need a fuel cut defender.
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Where did you get your 02 clamp? Just wondering where I can look besides flyinmiata.com
I got it from Speedcircuit.
Isn't a fuel cut defender just a MAF clamp itself? It keeps the voltage below 5v so you don't run into fuel cut. And by the way, I highly doubt you are running into fuel cut. Extrapolating out from the MAF logs I have, you'd have to be making 300hp before the MAF would run over its 5V max.
Does this O2 clamp you are buying have a boost sensing switch? You don't want to clamp the O2 when cruising or your gas mileage is going to go out the window.
Good news is I picked up my OBD Bluetooth module today from the post office, only took about six weeks. So now I should be able to intelligently tune the O2.
Unless this O2 on the analag A fails for some reason, you don't need any extra clamps.
I'll post some updates tomorrow hopefully.
Does this O2 clamp you are buying have a boost sensing switch? You don't want to clamp the O2 when cruising or your gas mileage is going to go out the window.
Good news is I picked up my OBD Bluetooth module today from the post office, only took about six weeks. So now I should be able to intelligently tune the O2.
Unless this O2 on the analag A fails for some reason, you don't need any extra clamps.
I'll post some updates tomorrow hopefully.
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
Yes the flying miata clamp is meant to kick on only when you hit boost. I researched it a little bit and it should come with a small box like the FIC only a fraction of the size, and you can adjust when it kicks on. So if you want it to clamp before you hit boost, you can set it to -2inHG or something like that.
Ricktalife
Member
- :
- 2012 Subaru WRX
http://www.speedcircuit.net/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=27&products_id=88&osCsid=c723b16699f52d2f5b145ae2e7007c2a
I'm going to shop around for a better price first.
I'm going to shop around for a better price first.
That's not a bad idea, too bad it's so expensive. Really the FIC should be able to do exactly that, but I just don't trust that tap configuration and results were spotty.
The Analog A IN/OUT intercept trick with the O2 works pretty well. However, it does not do a passthrough in voltage mode, so I can't just give it a .445 volt signal in boost and have it work like normal out of boost by leaving the cel values at 0 like you can with the O2 maps.
This forced me to do an offset. An offset of -.478 results in a nearly perfect "no-transition" when entering open loop. Then I pulled fuel around the transition to get just about everything at 11.5 AFR.
This took many pulls, lots of long driving logs, and lots of playing around, but the car is 100x more fun to drive now.
There are however, a few things I haven't been able to resolve. There is some lift throttle backfire still. I had quite a bit of this stock too, so it's not any worse, just something I was hoping would be tuned out with the leaner mixtures. It's because the MAF is behind the actual throttle closing, so it's not quick enough to pull fuel. I need to pull fuel when the MAF is high, but the MAP is low, but the AEM software doesn't give that option.
I actually am running with the MAF intercepted. I spent so much time getting that to work I figured I might as well have it to log, and you can actually see the MAF blip back up after lifting off the throttle.
I have a couple of theories. Either the wastegate bounces a bit allowing the turbo to spool a little and pull in more air, or the unburnt fuel is igniting in the exhaust and forcing the turbo to spool.
Here's a picture of the MAF blips after letting off the throttle.
The other issue I was hoping to be able to solve with the AEM is the initial delay spike in fuel delivery when you plant your right foot at low <2k rpms.
You can see it very clearly here.
After my foot goes to the floor, there is a long delay until the PCM starts adding fuel, resulting in a huge spike in fuel delivery. There are also a couple blips in the fuel beforehand, like the PCM is trying to add fuel, but something is holding it back.
The RPM that the spike occurs differes between runs. I've seen as low as 2400rpm and as high as 3000rpms. So I don't know how the PCM is switching over. It could be from the MAF I suppose, but that isn't exactly the same every time either, ranges between 3.5V to 3.7V.
Actually now that I think about this could be the VCTS, but the strange thing is there is no sudden spike in MAF voltage or AFR, so that leads me to believe the PCM knows to add fuel when it opens the VCTS flaps and not before. So I am not sure removing the VCTS alone would help. This might actually require a standalone.
Lastly there is also still an abrupt transition to open loop in first gear. My thoery is that the car only samples the O2 at about 2Hz, and that isn't quick enough to react to my offset O2 voltage signal and add fuel fast enough to keep the AFR low, and it goes up to the 16:1 AFR it loves so much before switching over. However thanks to my fuel pulling to a nice 11.5 AFR, it does give a serious kick in the pants when it goes to open loop.
I am tempted to try raising the offset to -.49V to see if it keeps first gear from ever going lean, but I am afraid that could cause the rest of my gears to go super rich. I guess I can give it a try.
What's there to lose at this point?
The Analog A IN/OUT intercept trick with the O2 works pretty well. However, it does not do a passthrough in voltage mode, so I can't just give it a .445 volt signal in boost and have it work like normal out of boost by leaving the cel values at 0 like you can with the O2 maps.
This forced me to do an offset. An offset of -.478 results in a nearly perfect "no-transition" when entering open loop. Then I pulled fuel around the transition to get just about everything at 11.5 AFR.
This took many pulls, lots of long driving logs, and lots of playing around, but the car is 100x more fun to drive now.
There are however, a few things I haven't been able to resolve. There is some lift throttle backfire still. I had quite a bit of this stock too, so it's not any worse, just something I was hoping would be tuned out with the leaner mixtures. It's because the MAF is behind the actual throttle closing, so it's not quick enough to pull fuel. I need to pull fuel when the MAF is high, but the MAP is low, but the AEM software doesn't give that option.
I actually am running with the MAF intercepted. I spent so much time getting that to work I figured I might as well have it to log, and you can actually see the MAF blip back up after lifting off the throttle.
I have a couple of theories. Either the wastegate bounces a bit allowing the turbo to spool a little and pull in more air, or the unburnt fuel is igniting in the exhaust and forcing the turbo to spool.
Here's a picture of the MAF blips after letting off the throttle.
The other issue I was hoping to be able to solve with the AEM is the initial delay spike in fuel delivery when you plant your right foot at low <2k rpms.
You can see it very clearly here.
After my foot goes to the floor, there is a long delay until the PCM starts adding fuel, resulting in a huge spike in fuel delivery. There are also a couple blips in the fuel beforehand, like the PCM is trying to add fuel, but something is holding it back.
The RPM that the spike occurs differes between runs. I've seen as low as 2400rpm and as high as 3000rpms. So I don't know how the PCM is switching over. It could be from the MAF I suppose, but that isn't exactly the same every time either, ranges between 3.5V to 3.7V.
Actually now that I think about this could be the VCTS, but the strange thing is there is no sudden spike in MAF voltage or AFR, so that leads me to believe the PCM knows to add fuel when it opens the VCTS flaps and not before. So I am not sure removing the VCTS alone would help. This might actually require a standalone.
Lastly there is also still an abrupt transition to open loop in first gear. My thoery is that the car only samples the O2 at about 2Hz, and that isn't quick enough to react to my offset O2 voltage signal and add fuel fast enough to keep the AFR low, and it goes up to the 16:1 AFR it loves so much before switching over. However thanks to my fuel pulling to a nice 11.5 AFR, it does give a serious kick in the pants when it goes to open loop.
I am tempted to try raising the offset to -.49V to see if it keeps first gear from ever going lean, but I am afraid that could cause the rest of my gears to go super rich. I guess I can give it a try.
What's there to lose at this point?
As a side note, I also test drove an EvoX and a MS3. I won't put a write up in here, but the EvoX was garbage, the MS3 is fantastic. I am sure my Mazda bias is coming in to play somewhat, but the MS3 is better in every possible way, and 12k cheaper.
I am very tempted to be done with the MSP and move on to the MS3. The car was so fun to drive today after getting the AEM working, it's going to be hard to say goodbye.
I am very tempted to be done with the MSP and move on to the MS3. The car was so fun to drive today after getting the AEM working, it's going to be hard to say goodbye.
