About the Mazda “Lifetime” transmission fluid

[EliNY]

Hello,
I am glad to have been accepted to this forum. I recently test drove a CX 30 and a CX 5. I liked them both…but being a larger individual, I feel more comfortable inside the CX 5. While reading through this forum, I have noticed a lot of posts about the “lifetime” transmission fluid.

So I decided to go to my local Mazda dealer and speak to someone in the service department. he explained to me that this is one of their first major decisions that the corporate people at Mazda have made since they were split with Ford Motor Company. Then he mentioned that in his opinion as a mechanic of many years who has worked on many cars, there is no such thing as “lifetime fluid” for any car. He mentioned that all of the car manufacturers are doing it now as marketing geared towards their lease customers.

He also shared a personal story about his brother… How he went to a Jiffy Lube location and they charged him $300 for an oil change… when he asked why, they mentioned because they oil is guaranteed for lifetime. Then he mentioned that is a bunch of BS… no such thing for oil or transmission fluid. Just a marketing ploy.

He mentioned that they would be glad to drop the pan and do a transmission fluid change at 50,000 miles.

So glad I went and had this conversation at my local Mazda dealership… Because now I have peace of mind about my CX 5 purchase.

 

[theblooms]

I do a drain and fill every 30,000, and then every 60,000 drop the pan, clean the magnet, and change the filter.

 

[Lazy2.5]

If the bottom of your pan, the strainer, magnet, and fluid itself is kept clean, these transmissions will go trouble free for a very long time.

At close to 300,000KM, I noticed that my transmission would "surge" and shift roughly into gear, only when it was cold outside, only in the first 5-10 min while warming up. The bottom of the pan was clean (4 pan drops and strainer changes at that mileage.)

So, since the bottom of my pan was clean, I went ahead and did a drain/fill. It almost entirely resolved the surging issue.

Let your transmission filter and strainer go unchanged; your valve body and solenoid will begin to eventually wear then fail. Once they go, the rest of the transmission will go with it. I am now at 311 xxx KM, and the original transmission shifts excellent.

 

[ceric]

I have ATF drain-n-refill done at dealership every 30k. Each time, only half of fluid is renewed. The other is locked inside torque convertor. Hence, needs to do this every 30k or so.

If you only plan to keep it for 7-8 yrs and sell it before 100k miles, very likely nothing will go bad without touching ATF at all. If you baby your vehicles, that is an entirely different story.

When automakers say "lifetime fluid", they mean there is no service interval and it should last the entire warranty period. After warranty expires, we, as owners, are on our own. So, don't take *lifetime* literally. They mean it very differently from our understanding of the term.

 

[madar]

The concept of "lifetime" fluid is nothing new, goes back many decades. My father's 66 Dodge Dart had "lifetime" Dexron fluid in it.
As many others have pointed out on this forum, fluids can't last a lifetime. Lifetime, IMO, is the life on the warranty period. Nothing else matters to the car manufacturers after that. Change it or not, it's the owners decision. Chalk me up in the change column.

 

[Conrad 16.5]

Hello,
I am glad to have been accepted to this forum. I recently test drove a CX 30 and a CX 5. I liked them both…but being a larger individual, I feel more comfortable inside the CX 5. While reading through this forum, I have noticed a lot of posts about the “lifetime” transmission fluid.

So I decided to go to my local Mazda dealer and speak to someone in the service department. he explained to me that this is one of their first major decisions that the corporate people at Mazda have made since they were split with Ford Motor Company. Then he mentioned that in his opinion as a mechanic of many years who has worked on many cars, there is no such thing as “lifetime fluid” for any car. He mentioned that all of the car manufacturers are doing it now as marketing geared towards their lease customers.

He also shared a personal story about his brother… How he went to a Jiffy Lube location and they charged him $300 for an oil change… when he asked why, they mentioned because they oil is guaranteed for lifetime. Then he mentioned that is a bunch of BS… no such thing for oil or transmission fluid. Just a marketing ploy.

He mentioned that they would be glad to drop the pan and do a transmission fluid change at 50,000 miles.

So glad I went and had this conversation at my local Mazda dealership… Because now I have peace of mind about my CX 5 purchase.

The hell you say?

An honest dealership mechanic?

What will they think of next?

Please share the name of this dealership so anyone near can take advantage of this rare occurrence.

 

[madar]

The lifetime thing along with 10k mile oil changes....all stuff to make the car appear low maintenance for the duration of the warranty.

 

[sinistriel@]

From an industry perspective "lifetime" colloquially means the lifetime of the powertrain warranty. In the US there is no legal definition of what that means. OEMs also get CAFE credits for long OCI as well as labeling a fluid "lifetime". This stems from the assumption that the vehicle will put less petroleum products into the environment as it ages.
Mazda is a little funny about what service intervals are. These are two screenshots from some internal documents around the Skyactiv Drive.
The first shows the design life of the trans to be trouble free for 100,000 miles +

While highlighting that it requires proper maintenance as it ages.

The second slide calls out failures specifically related to "lack of proper service when subjected to 'severe' driving conditions"

You'll be hard pressed to find any owners manual from any gen and market of the car that tells you what that is.

 

[madar]

From an industry perspective "lifetime" colloquially means the lifetime of the powertrain warranty. In the US there is no legal definition of what that means. OEMs also get CAFE credits for long OCI as well as labeling a fluid "lifetime". This stems from the assumption that the vehicle will put less petroleum products into the environment as it ages.
Mazda is a little funny about what service intervals are. These are two screenshots from some internal documents around the Skyactiv Drive.
The first shows the design life of the trans to be trouble free for 100,000 miles +View attachment 327794
While highlighting that it requires proper maintenance as it ages.

The second slide calls out failures specifically related to "lack of proper service when subjected to 'severe' driving conditions"View attachment 327795
You'll be hard pressed to find any owners manual from any gen and market of the car that tells you what that is.

"Modifying electrical Systems (Adding cell phones, alarms, stereo amps)"... that's an interesting one. I Imagine that interferes with the ECU in some manner?

I'm glad to see they took the design thinking past 100k miles.

 

[RL911]

So what would be a reasonable interval to change the fluid? The powertrain warranty is 5/60 I believe. So is 60k about right?

 

[sinistriel@]

"Modifying electrical Systems (Adding cell phones, alarms, stereo amps)"... that's an interesting one. I Imagine that interferes with the ECU in some manner?

I'm glad to see they took the design thinking past 100k miles.

We actually run into these issues on various OEMs all the time. Especially prevalent with Chrysler products and something plugged into the OBD2 port. Truck will work fine one day, the cheap reader they bought on Amazon fails and brings down the CAN network or will put you in limp mode. Anything that can tap into the 5V reference signal for can hurt a transmission.

 

[sinistriel@]

So what would be a reasonable interval to change the fluid? The powertrain warranty is 5/60 I believe. So is 60k about right?

That's a reasonable amount of time for most vehicles, I personally go closer to 30k on my own vehicles, currently a 21 3 Turbo and a 16 Cherokee Trailhawk. I also live in a hot climate and all my driving would fall into a 'severe' category, short trips, high ambient temp.

 

[RL911]

That's a reasonable amount of time for most vehicles, I personally go closer to 30k on my own vehicles, currently a 21 3 Turbo and a 16 Cherokee Trailhawk. I also live in a hot climate and all my driving would fall into a 'severe' category, short trips, high ambient temp.

On my 19 pilot, I change it every 30k, but it’s extremely simple to do and you don’t have to drop the pan. That’s also not considered lifetime fluid. My only hesitation to doing it more frequently on the cx5 is dropping the pan and scraping the rtv sealant.

Is it perhaps ok to just drain it at 30k, not drop the pan, and refill it? Then at 60, drop the pan and change the filter.

 

[sinistriel@]

On my 19 pilot, I change it every 30k, but it’s extremely simple to do and you don’t have to drop the pan. That’s also not considered lifetime fluid. My only hesitation to doing it more frequently on the cx5 is dropping the pan and scraping the rtv sealant.

Is it perhaps ok to just drain it at 30k, not drop the pan, and refill it? Then at 60, drop the pan and change the filter.

If you're changing fluid you're already doing more for maintenance than most people will and would be similar to what you're doing to the Pilot, the only way to change the filter in that one is to split the case.

 

[ruthrj]

Skyactiv Transmission Fluid Analysis Thread check this thread out for data on wear levels. I was doing 50k on my ‘13 before it was totaled and changed the filter/cleaned magnet at 100k. Unfortunately that was a 2 liter so not direct apples to apples comparison for most owning a 2.5L.

I’ll likely stick to 50k with my 2.5T, perhaps bump it to 30k. @sinistriel@ started a great thread showing abnormal wear for a transmission teardown. Attributed to shifting into reverse at elevated rpm’s (think startup) and reverse is not a braking gear. I now back my car into most places when I park. I also wait the 15s or so for rpm’s to drop below 1k after start before engaging 1st gear.

 

[ceric]

lifetime ATF was meant for a marketing purpose. "No need to change ATF !"

In 1998, I bought a '98 E39 BMW 540iA (V8) new.
At 30K, I visited a nearby BMW dealership for ATF refresh.
Kid you not, the SA actually laughed at me...
He said, "This is a new tech from BMW. There is no need to refresh ATF. There is no way to change ATF. Don't worry about it."

Not long after, more and more E39 owners started to experience AT failure (heard from E39 forum), owners rushed to BMW dealers for ATF refresh. I did too. The same SA who laughed at me changed his tone... "Well, we can do it for $300 if you insist..."
(yes, all of a sudden, there IS A WAY to change ATF.)

I got two co-workers who owned BMWs (3 and newer 5). They both had AT failure before 100k.
The ZF AT is not that reliable back then. Not sure about now. Good luck to the owners.

Mine? No AT problem before I sold it at 80k. ATF replaced twice.
(many other failures during my 8 yrs of ownership. I lost count.)

In short, don't blame me if I have serious doubt about "lifetime ATF"....
BMW or Mazda.

 

[MadMikee]

The hell you say?

An honest dealership mechanic?

What will they think of next?

Please share the name of this dealership so anyone near can take advantage of this rare occurrence.

Too funny!!