3.0" to 2.5" Exhaust - Bad flow characteristics?

Awsome, thanks for the info. I just rather go down in exhaust size, and get everything redone after the s pipe and make it to 2.50 and the rest of the cat-back 2.50 too.
But if the stock muffler has a 2.50" inlet then i can re-use mine, and just route the axle back under the axle instead of the crazy bend like stock.
 
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Thinking, do you guys know if the axle back goes under the axle would it Interfear with say a GT Spec V-brace and panel? Not saying I have one, but may invest in it in the future after all the neccessary stuff is done first.
 
Notorious_V.I.C said:
Awsome, thanks for the info. I just rather go down in exhaust size, and get everything redone after the s pipe and make it to 2.50 and the rest of the cat-back 2.50 too.
But if the stock muffler has a 2.50" inlet then i can re-use mine, and just route the axle back under the axle instead of the crazy bend like stock.

wahts wrong with the bend. if u put it below u have to worry about less ground clearance.
 
It is my understanding that pressure and volume are directly affected by temperature. So as the EGT decreases, the pressure and volume of the gas also decreases. This means a smaller volume pipe can flow the gas at the same velocity since Bernoulli states when pressure is low, velocity is high. What my friend's and I were trying to figure out is how to keep gas velocity high as temps frop from the turbo to muffler. A gradual step down is obviously best, unlike my downpipe that merges from 3" to 2.5" within 6".

If temperature remained constant, I can understand why a uniform diameter pipe is ideal. Thoughts? Maybe its more important to keep pressure to an absolute minimum than try to maintain exhaust velocity on the discharge side of the turbo...
 
i dunno, i knew some guy makin turbo kits that had the same thoery that if u keep the exhaust hot it flows faster but if they are bumping into each other cause they start out in one size, then hit a bottleneck cause you went smaller, i dont see how the temp matters. im just guessing tho.

i think i read on here tho from a garett engineer its best to start off small, and cone out to the size you are doing.
 
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We're all forgetting Boehr's law for gases...basic chem right? (Although I didn't spell his name right, but I only got a B, so sue me) As gases cool, they expand in volume. To go from 2.5" to 3" is okay, that is how they build scavenger headers, they step them up as they go back because as the gas cools, it expands in volume, therefore to maintain exhaust gas velocity you should step up the pipe otherwise you will create pressure in the pipe. This is why personally I don't think you would see a significant hp increase by going with a 3" downpipe, the gases are so hot coming out of the turbo that they are thin and travel very fast, Corky Bell talks a bit about this, but this all really makes more of a difference on N/A cars where low end torque is an issue. On a turbo car, you shouldn't lose low end torque, because you are decreasing spool time and allowing some boost creep. You won't notice it at all. I have the CS S/J which is 2.4" ID, and it made a huge difference. I actually gained torque on the low end, but I run a cat, which many test have proven that you can make more torque with goo high flow cat than without. A lot of the Hot Rod/ Car Craft mags do these comparisons all the time 2.5 vs 3, cat vs no cat etc, and so far everything I've read from those tests have been right in line with what Corky rates hp to pipe diameter.

However, that all being said, I do think a diverged wastegate path is useful to decrease the turbulence of an internal wastegate. What would be interesting to do (and relatively easy) is to measure the temps along the GHL before the cat to see how far away from the turbo the gas starts cooling, then you can calculate volume, then in turn mach velocity. The GHL is diverged, so the main pipe is about 2.5" and the Wastegate pipe is probably 1.5" (which no backpressure at all on the WG is best - hence the reason the WRC cars just dump the waste gates about two feet from the turbo) and then the GHL becomes 3" about maybe 10" from the turbo flange, this is probably too close to step up to 3" anyways, it should run about 18" before the step (of course depends on temps) because of the different flow characteristics of the downpipes/exhausts, the temp step down/volume increase will happen at different points.

If I had the money, I'd go with the GHL downpipe but extend the WG path back to right before the cat and then dump it back in, and mate the GHL with the Vibrant without the resonator, but with the cat and muffler.

this is my plan, but I'm gonna have a hard time cutting up the GHL downpipe since it's so stupidly expensive. But oh well...

Britt

In fact, I'm so bored, I will measure the temps on my CS exhaust tonight just for curiosities sake, see where it starts to cool. Maybe I'll even plumb in my pressure gauge into the exaust to measure the backpressure.
 
msp35 said:
Not so much. a nice low tone @ speed, @ WOT it sounds damn good. I think that there is power to be freed up by removing the stock Catback. But that will have to wait. If I was really motivated I guess I could find a dyno for before and after removal of the stock catback.
the exhaust setup i'm running is stock s/j pipe to catless midpipe w/cutout to stock axleback, and i dynoed 10 whp and 7 wtq more with the cutout open, so the stock axleback is definatly a restriction
 
terbow said:
wahts wrong with the bend. if u put it below u have to worry about less ground clearance.

Ground clearence perhaps, 2.50 underaxle may not be a problem...I dunno, hmm Well If the stock muffler if anyone knows has a 2.50" inlet then I may just stick with that and get 2.50" piping all re-done.
 
terbow said:
its definately not 2.5 ill check tonight, i didnt get out of work till 1 am

Working overtime? well if you do get a chance, that would be great. I just hope the muffler has a inlet of 2.50" cause that would save money on buying a new muffler and the stock looks good.
 
the outer diameter is probably right around 2.5". however, the stock piping has pretty thick walls so the inner diameter's right around 2.3".
 
always. i live at the office.

on a msp. the s outlet is 1.5, the catpipe outlet is 1.75 the rest of the piping is 2" including the axelback. technically the axelback starts at 1.75 and bulges at 2 within a few inches.

Notorious_V.I.C said:
Working overtime? well if you do get a chance, that would be great. I just hope the muffler has a inlet of 2.50" cause that would save money on buying a new muffler and the stock looks good.
 
chaos2015 said:
the exhaust setup i'm running is stock s/j pipe to catless midpipe w/cutout to stock axleback, and i dynoed 10 whp and 7 wtq more with the cutout open, so the stock axleback is definatly a restriction

That's good to know, what boost level?
 
terbow said:
always. i live at the office.

on a msp. the s outlet is 1.5, the catpipe outlet is 1.75 the rest of the piping is 2" including the axelback. technically the axelback starts at 1.75 and bulges at 2 within a few inches.

Thanks for the info and help striker and terbow. Damn well I wonder is it possible or okay performance wise to use the stock muffler on a turbo back that is 2.50" ?? I am guess part of the axle back for the muffler can be 2.50" then get stuck at 2" ?? I know thats back pressure right there but unless some one can give a link or some reccomendations on a nice looking muffler that will sound good and look that has a 2.50" inlet.

I have the full GHL Downpipe and that s*** is falling apart, never came with a damn flex and I didn't have the AWR motor mount install until a few weeks later. So...yea long story but the spipe cracked right were it bends and well i'm going to try and get everything re-done to 2.50" from the s pipe bend and get a felx put in.

So I will be getting rid of my 3 inch cat-back which goes to a 5zigen muffler. I plan on buying the mid-section right after the cat-back from a vendor if they are willing to just sell that. And anyone know of a good mid-pipe with a flex and high-flow cat that will work with the GHL S pipe?

All in all this will save me money because the only work left is making an axle-back, getting a muffler and welding some so hopefully it won't cost too much.

Any input from you guys would be appericated
 
awww you don't like your 5zigen? well, what kind of muffler are you looking for? something like the stock one or is an N1 style ok? sound level?
 
Notorious_V.I.C said:
Thanks for the info and help striker and terbow. Damn well I wonder is it possible or okay performance wise to use the stock muffler on a turbo back that is 2.50" ?? I am guess part of the axle back for the muffler can be 2.50" then get stuck at 2" ?? I know thats back pressure right there but unless some one can give a link or some reccomendations on a nice looking muffler that will sound good and look that has a 2.50" inlet.

I have the full GHL Downpipe and that s*** is falling apart, never came with a damn flex and I didn't have the AWR motor mount install until a few weeks later. So...yea long story but the spipe cracked right were it bends and well i'm going to try and get everything re-done to 2.50" from the s pipe bend and get a felx put in.

So I will be getting rid of my 3 inch cat-back which goes to a 5zigen muffler. I plan on buying the mid-section right after the cat-back from a vendor if they are willing to just sell that. And anyone know of a good mid-pipe with a flex and high-flow cat that will work with the GHL S pipe?

All in all this will save me money because the only work left is making an axle-back, getting a muffler and welding some so hopefully it won't cost too much.

Any input from you guys would be appericated

dude send that GHL downpipe back to GHL and they'll give you a new one with the flex, it has a lifetime warrenty
 
I'm sure GHL will take care of you. Did you buy it directly from them or Str Un? You can always call the store to help out with the warranty pains.

As for the catback. I don't think it's worth the noise level for a few more hp than the 2.5" catback.
 
I bought the GHL used from another member, so I'm lucked out on sending it back to them.

I'm looking for something more stock, but if I don't find what i'm looking for perhaps the N1 can do, might just buy the Apexr1...

I love the sound of my exhaust very deep and esepcially when it back fires wooow....its nice. Everyone lloves it but I just want something smaller.

Sound level, don't want it to be raspy or drone on the Highway...
 
Notorious_V.I.C said:
I bought the GHL used from another member, so I'm lucked out on sending it back to them.

I'm looking for something more stock, but if I don't find what i'm looking for perhaps the N1 can do, might just buy the Apexr1...

I love the sound of my exhaust very deep and esepcially when it back fires wooow....its nice. Everyone lloves it but I just want something smaller.

Sound level, don't want it to be raspy or drone on the Highway...


Have you tried contacting GHL? I was under the impression that it was a lifetime warranty on the product, not matter who the owner is...

EDIT: Nevermind, just read their website.... "GHL Motorsports, L.L.C. offers a Limited Lifetime Warranty to the original purchaser of all non-race application products."
 
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The Greddy SP2 looks good to me, I'll have to do a search to see if there are any pictures of it posted on the car and before. Anyone know or have heard how it sounds?
 
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