20lb safe or not.

[justa4banger]

If I was mad about what you said I woulda quoted your post and made a comment. Also the dude asked a question, one side is allowed to say 20 pounds is not safe but the other side isn't allowed to say it is? I could care less about what you say I got made when that other dude is trying scold DavidB about when he blows dont go to the dealer. He can **** off just cause he's scared to do anything with his car doesn't mean he should act like that.

Hell i just figured out your mad at ME............. First off. My vagina weighs about 115 lbs measures 36-26-38 and doesn't speak a lick of english........ Your point?


I'm not scared to mod my car, i choose not too. What i don;t want to see is a bunch of internet smart kids go around blowing up their engine. On top of that blowing up there engine because they were misinformed or failed to listen to reason and then expect a manufacturer to pay for it....

I'm here to help out........ if you don't like it tough....... don;t let me hear of you popping your motor though with MODS and expect a dealer to fix your junk. DO IT RIGHT OR DON"T DO IT AT ALL.

 

[sperry]

If I was mad about what you said I woulda quoted your post and made a comment. Also the dude asked a question, one side is allowed to say 20 pounds is not safe but the other side isn't allowed to say it is? I could care less about what you say I got made when that other dude is trying scold DavidB about when he blows dont go to the dealer. He can **** off just cause he's scared to do anything with his car doesn't mean he should act like that.

When one side is saying "don't just crank up the boost without doing x,y,z" and the other side is saying "nuh uh, it's totally cool, just crank it up" I would say yes, the uninformed side should keep their mouths shut, because when people act like they know what they're talking about, but don't, less informed people take their advice and blow s*** up. To be frank and direct, running additional boost without properly modding and tuning for it is a bad idea. Period.

Whether or not the motor can take it, whether or not some people have had success doing it, is irrelevant until the leg work to *prove* it's safe is done. No one on here talking about how great their motors run with extra boost have provided AFRs, EGTs, dyno plots, etc to demonstrate the MS3 motor is just fine with more boost, and until that's done I wouldn't recommend that anyone not willing to destroy their motor do anything to it. And if you're going to do it anyway, have a heart to those that might not know what they're getting into when you talk about what you've done and make sure to emphasize the risk you're taking.

The fact that Cobb's base maps for the AP don't make more power over stock tells me they're seeing things on the dyno that indicates the motor is already making what it's gonna make on the stock turbo/fuel system. If it were safe, I'd expect Cobb to release maps that bump power on a mechanically stock MS3 like they do on the WRX/STi. Maybe they haven't gotten there yet with their tuning, but until I see the proof it's safe, I warn folks of the potential risk to modding irresponsibly.

And as far as blowing the car up with a boost controller and going back to Mazda for a new motor under warranty... well that's the lowest of the low. That's basically stealing from Mazda, which eventually makes it a million times harder for those that actually have warranty problems to get them taken care of by the dealer. Hell, the whole reason the Mazdaspeed intake got stop-saled may have well been from a few performance minded people that had them going and running their cars lean with additional boost and falsely pointing the finger at the intake. So now everyone that wanted a warrantied intake suffers.

All I'm saying is, for the good of the online community, people should do their best to make statements with full disclosure, and take personal responsibility for what they're talking about.

 

[SpeedKillz]

What is a MAP clamp?

 

[jville]

this thread has turned into a novelfest. wow.

 

[sperry]

What is a MAP clamp?

MAP = manifold absolute pressure. The MAP sensor detects the amount of air in the intake, it's similar to a MAF (mass air flow) sensor, but is a little simpler.

A MAP clamp is a hack that limits the voltage that the MAP sensor sends to the ECU. With it in place, you can crank up the boost without the ECU seeing it, which prevents the ECU from throwing a check engine light or going into limp mode, or whatever it does to protect the motor from overboost.

So while a MAP clamp lets you get away with running more boost, it also prevents the motor from knowing there's more air in the intake which means it doesn't turn up the injector duty cycle to provide the necessary fuel to match all that extra air. High boost and lean fuel usually results in knock/detonation, which normally ruins rod bearings or ring lands.

 

[Darksun280]

When one side is saying "don't just crank up the boost without doing x,y,z" and the other side is saying "nuh uh, it's totally cool, just crank it up" I would say yes, the uninformed side should keep their mouths shut, because when people act like they know what they're talking about, but don't, less informed people take their advice and blow s*** up. To be frank and direct, running additional boost without properly modding and tuning for it is a bad idea. Period.

Whether or not the motor can take it, whether or not some people have had success doing it, is irrelevant until the leg work to *prove* it's safe is done. No one on here talking about how great their motors run with extra boost have provided AFRs, EGTs, dyno plots, etc to demonstrate the MS3 motor is just fine with more boost, and until that's done I wouldn't recommend that anyone not willing to destroy their motor do anything to it. And if you're going to do it anyway, have a heart to those that might not know what they're getting into when you talk about what you've done and make sure to emphasize the risk you're taking.

The fact that Cobb's base maps for the AP don't make more power over stock tells me they're seeing things on the dyno that indicates the motor is already making what it's gonna make on the stock turbo/fuel system. If it were safe, I'd expect Cobb to release maps that bump power on a mechanically stock MS3 like they do on the WRX/STi. Maybe they haven't gotten there yet with their tuning, but until I see the proof it's safe, I warn folks of the potential risk to modding irresponsibly.

And as far as blowing the car up with a boost controller and going back to Mazda for a new motor under warranty... well that's the lowest of the low. That's basically stealing from Mazda, which eventually makes it a million times harder for those that actually have warranty problems to get them taken care of by the dealer. Hell, the whole reason the Mazdaspeed intake got stop-saled may have well been from a few performance minded people that had them going and running their cars lean with additional boost and falsely pointing the finger at the intake. So now everyone that wanted a warrantied intake suffers.

All I'm saying is, for the good of the online community, people should do their best to make statements with full disclosure, and take personal responsibility for what they're talking about.

Wait what? Who said anything about turning up the boost with out proper mods? And I don't see me twisting anyone's arm on this site to do a damn thing. You may seem like some all knowing person to some noobs on here but
A: half the s*** your saying should be common sense

B: Blowing up a bunch of motors doesn't mean you know more then the next guy or word should be taken into consideration more then another member

C: You don't have a DI Mazda you drive a subaru so any information you give is just general guidelines when concerning this car and what it can/cannot take.

Thing that bugs me about half you subie guys if that you live and die buy what Cobb says cause this did right by you when it comes to subarus but fact of the matter is when it comes to this car and there AP its actually lackluster compared to some considered "Crude" methods other members are using to get power.

Theres a couple members on here saying "Hey we have xyz mods and we've been running this much boost for this amount of time with out blowing up. Non of us said "You have to run this set up" Jesus. And Hell if members like me dont do the leg work and blow s*** up how the hell would anyone learn anything? What wait till cobb blows some s*** up and says don't do that?

For me fact
turbo didn't like any thing over 15 psi off meth just intake
turbo didn't like 30psi off meth just intake and blew up
turbo ran 20 psi got 6 degrees knock with I/TP got no knock on 17
turbo ran 20 psi on 100octane fine with I/TP for 2 months still not safe though when considering longevity
turbo runs 20-23 psi on meth with out complaints or knock

Thats facts for me. And my job is to put that information out there for noobs who are considering raising the boost in the future and want an idea about what the threshold is. Hell atleast they stand a chance at figuring out what direction they want to go with things....

Were not the bad guys here. Listen I'm not here to argue or go against you since in a conservative way I think your right But to try and tell us others not to say anything that can be viewed as risky aint fair just because some noob my take what we say outta context and go run 30 psi on his stock ms3 and blow up.;

 

[jville]

+1^

 

[jville]

someone asked a question, people respond with what they want. no body's on trial here and "have to take personal responsibility for what they are talking about" just cause you either A:can type really fast and have a plethora of interesting information that you must share, B:have ALOT of time on your hand to research all this info and transfer it or C: get your jollies jumping off the handle over someone for making a statement you disagree with. IT'S JUST A FORUM!

 

[sperry]

Wait what? Who said anything about turning up the boost with out proper mods? And I don't see me twisting anyone's arm on this site to do a damn thing. You may seem like some all knowing person to some noobs on here but
A: half the s*** your saying should be common sense

B: Blowing up a bunch of motors doesn't mean you know more then the next guy or word should be taken into consideration more then another member

C: You don't have a DI Mazda you drive a subaru so any information you give is just general guidelines when concerning this car and what it can/cannot take.

Thing that bugs me about half you subie guys if that you live and die buy what Cobb says cause this did right by you when it comes to subarus but fact of the matter is when it comes to this car and there AP its actually lackluster compared to some considered "Crude" methods other members are using to get power.

Theres a couple members on here saying "Hey we have xyz mods and we've been running this much boost for this amount of time with out blowing up. Non of us said "You have to run this set up" Jesus. And Hell if members like me dont do the leg work and blow s*** up how the hell would anyone learn anything? What wait till cobb blows some s*** up and says don't do that?

For me fact
turbo didn't like any thing over 15 psi off meth just intake
turbo didn't like 30psi off meth just intake and blew up
turbo ran 20 psi got 6 degrees knock with I/TP got no knock on 17
turbo ran 20 psi on 100octane fine with I/TP for 2 months still not safe though when considering longevity
turbo runs 20-23 psi on meth with out complaints or knock

Thats facts for me. And my job is to put that information out there for noobs who are considering raising the boost in the future and want an idea about what the threshold is. Hell atleast they stand a chance at figuring out what direction they want to go with things....

Were not the bad guys here. Listen I'm not here to argue or go against you since in a conservative way I think your right But to try and tell us others not to say anything that can be viewed as risky aint fair just because some noob my take what we say outta context and go run 30 psi on his stock ms3 and blow up.;

None of the stuff you just posted had been mentioned in this thread until now, and it's not really your statements that have me concerned.

What I'm fighting against is stuff like:

The highest I would dear to go is 17.5 psi. 22-25 psi?? LMFAO!!!!!

guys are so full of s*** its funny !! i ran 20+psi on my stocker for MONTHS !! with no tuning at all. the car loved it too. it mat not be efficient in the long run for that small turbo, but for short bursts and daily driving it served me well. take advice from someone who has done it, not people who heard it from a guy whos cousins neighbor told them their mechanic said no not to.
my new PG k04 is also runnig 20+psi now. my car hauls ass and has ye to have an issue.

Get meth and run 20
my car hauls ass

it was on the stock TMIC and still is for a few more weeks. most of it was during winter months, but i had it for a while in the spring too. the new turbo has only been on for about 3 weeks. i was once a believer of the whole turbo is no good past 17-18psi crap that people keep preeching. well it is BS. i am not saying the turbo is totally efficient over 20psi, but it can very easily do it.
it also take some time for the turbo to create enough heat to become inefficient. one quick burst through a few gears at 20+ is not enough time to kill the performance. i would not recommed running a road course like that. but for street/drag racing i am all for it, and do it on a daily basis.

your an inspiration to me lol im putting my boost controller and boost gauge on monday. i want to run 18 psi

ok well hypothetically if something went wrong then couldn't u just take the controller out and take it to the dealer? Having it at 18 I think would be good to start.

If anything goes wrong, couldn't I just take off the controller and take it to the dealer, and they would never know. Also I"m thinking I will just go to 18lbs then see how that goes over, just to be on the safe side.

...and so on...

Like I mentioned before, it's the people pushing the limits that learn how go get more and go further with tuning/power. But remember, this was the original post that started it all:

I was talking with a friend of a friend who works at champion motorsports. I was telling him about my car, and he was saying I shold crank up the boost. He was saying that the car could handle 22-25 psi. I wanted to get the forums opinion on this. I would like to just up it to 20 with a boost controller. Is anyone doing this now? Is it safe? Any sort of expertise in this subject would be greatly appreciated, since this is my first boosted car I'm not to keen on the mechanics.

Clearly, this guy is *not* the type that's looking to test the waters... he's the ideal guy that's going to listen to the yahoo type advice above and blow the damn thing up trying to wring out the car for no good reason. It's the guys like you and Davidb that are trying new stuff that need to be the voices of reason as well as trail-breakers. Remind the n00bs that while you've had success, it's come at the price of earlier failures.

As far as me, you're right, I'm just a Subaru guy without any real experience with the MS3 DI motor. But I try to make sure I qualify my statements as such and I stay away from getting into the specifics of the MS3 motor that I don't know about. Half the stuff I'm talking about *should* be common sense, but go back and re-read this thread... common sense is clearly on vacation. And the motors I've gone through don't make what I say gospel, but they certainly do indicate that motors blow up. I used to think "meh, it can't happen to me, I'm not doing that much to the car"... well it does happen... motors do blow up, and when they do it's thousands of dollars to fix. I'm trying to be an example, so people can say to themselves... "crap, that other guy blew up and he seems like he knows what he's doing, I should really make sure I do this right".

So anyway, I'm not trying to suppress discussion on the topic, I'm just trying to remind those that are pushing the limits that not everyone is willing or able to do that sort of stuff. But mostly I'm trying to get the folks that don't know jack and are saying "Go for it!" to learn about what it actually takes before making recommendations to other people that don't know jack.

If you were personally offended or felt like I was taking a shot at you, please accept my apology. I'm not trying to single you out and say you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[sperry]

someone asked a question, people respond with what they want. no body's on trial here and "have to take personal responsibility for what they are talking about" just cause you either A:can type really fast and have a plethora of interesting information that you must share, B:have ALOT of time on your hand to research all this info and transfer it or C: get your jollies jumping off the handle over someone for making a statement you disagree with. IT'S JUST A FORUM!

It is just a forum... but why does that reduce your moral responsibility for honesty?

The people on here are real people, and they take real action based on what they read online. So if you post misinformation, you may do real damage to someone's car that they're going to have to deal with, even though it's "just a forum".

IMO, it's the responsibility of those with experience to refute the misinformation posted by those without it.

 

[MS3077]

(iagree)

 

[Darksun280]

None of the stuff you just posted had been mentioned in this thread until now, and it's not really your statements that have me concerned.

What I'm fighting against is stuff like:













...and so on...

Like I mentioned before, it's the people pushing the limits that learn how go get more and go further with tuning/power. But remember, this was the original post that started it all:



Clearly, this guy is *not* the type that's looking to test the waters... he's the ideal guy that's going to listen to the yahoo type advice above and blow the damn thing up trying to wring out the car for no good reason. It's the guys like you and Davidb that are trying new stuff that need to be the voices of reason as well as trail-breakers. Remind the n00bs that while you've had success, it's come at the price of earlier failures.

As far as me, you're right, I'm just a Subaru guy without any real experience with the MS3 DI motor. But I try to make sure I qualify my statements as such and I stay away from getting into the specifics of the MS3 motor that I don't know about. Half the stuff I'm talking about *should* be common sense, but go back and re-read this thread... common sense is clearly on vacation. And the motors I've gone through don't make what I say gospel, but they certainly do indicate that motors blow up. I used to think "meh, it can't happen to me, I'm not doing that much to the car"... well it does happen... motors do blow up, and when they do it's thousands of dollars to fix. I'm trying to be an example, so people can say to themselves... "crap, that other guy blew up and he seems like he knows what he's doing, I should really make sure I do this right".

So anyway, I'm not trying to suppress discussion on the topic, I'm just trying to remind those that are pushing the limits that not everyone is willing or able to do that sort of stuff. But mostly I'm trying to get the folks that don't know jack and are saying "Go for it!" to learn about what it actually takes before making recommendations to other people that don't know jack.

If you were personally offended or felt like I was taking a shot at you, please accept my apology. I'm not trying to single you out and say you don't know what you're talking about.

I can honestly say after reading your post and the way you qouted it I see where your coming from. ill be more cautious when presenting information on a forum. I honestly don't want someone to go through the things I've been through or risk messing up there vehicles. Mod at your own risk people. Either learn from other peoples mistakes or people will learn from yours.

 

[jville]

if someone is that deperate that they are going do everything they read online, they deserve it. if they are that hardup for professional advice or mechanical assistance with their car, come to jax. i have a shop where we can do whatever you need. This being a forum doesn't lower my moral standards but then again i have no personal responsibilities or obligations to assist anyone. i could do like some people do on here and just go around flaming and posting idiotic stuff. but i don;t. u knowwhat i mean?

 

[jville]

(iagree)

BIGG SURPRIZE!

 

[tru-boost]

for those of you who want to question my methods.... here are 2 of my timeslips from last night.

nuff said

 

[jville]

very sweet times, what was in the other lane? j/w

 

[tru-boost]

2007 vett next to me

 

[jville]

thats it i'm sold on the pg upgraded k04. glad i just started a new (higher paying) job. lol.

 

[MS3077]

lol! That vette was probably like "wtf over???"

 

[08ms3bm]

It's all about the driver too. i could probably have all of those mods and still run a 14 so. . .