2008 Pontiac GTO

[Amemiya]

yuk.

 

[anarchistchiken]

And we thought the current one was ugly... Jesus....


I sometimes think that GM has a department dedicated to alienizing and driving away customers. It just doesnt seem they could **** up as frequently as they do without a group of people working constantly to think of new in inventive ways to screw the company over.

 

[dbzeag]

Wow, just wow. I am kinda glad GM is dying a slow painful death. Maybe they will learn how to make a car someday. It is kinda sad that in their death they had to take out Saturn when it was good, Hummer when it was helpful to our troops, Saab in its heyday, and soon the Europe and Aussy constituents.

Blind nationalism is the only left for GM butin the US, that doesn't work the same as in Europe. You can't just build a s*** car and put a price tag on it and expect people to just buy it because it's American or for some other trite reason. Ford is seeing the effects of this, too, and to a certain part Chrysler.

These large US car companies need to sell off their stocks from their international assets like Saab and volvo and retool themselves. Maybe if they become smaller and leaner and more focused they can build a car that can compete in the world market.

 

[RaiderMS3]

It looks like they melted a new mustang front end, thus it is sagging in the middle. Either that, or the car is smiling.

 

[RaiderMS3]

Oh, I wonder if it will be made, GM is laying off 40K people. kwalitee iz jawb won with GM.

 

[anarchistchiken]

It is kinda sad that in their death they had to take out Saturn when it was good (when was it good?), Hummer when it was helpful to our troops (no matter what happens to GM, the HMVV is not going to die just yet. They'll still be produced as long as the government has money to pay for them), Saab in its heyday, and soon the Europe and Aussy constituents (I might be wrong about this, but GM doesnt actually have any holdings in the Australian marketplace, do they? I know they're partners or something with Holden, but I dont think they own them).

I should also say that you're speaking like this is in the past. GM is still many years away from any kind of major action. They have plenty of money to throw at whatever problems arrise, and even when they do have to take major actions to reorganize, they're not going to die, nor are any of their subsidieries.

These large US car companies need to sell off their stocks from their international assets like Saab and volvo and retool themselves. Maybe if they become smaller and leaner and more focused they can build a car that can compete in the world market.

I dont know if you realize this, but Saab and Volvo are some of GM and Ford's only profitable brands. If both companies (ford and GM) ditched their international holdings, they would go belly up very very fast.

What lots of people dont think about is that bad sales numbers are not the only reason the big car companies are hurting. The main thing that's killing their profit is overhead. These companies have been around for about 4 generations now, and four generations of employees means lots of retired workers who are still getting their pension and health benefits. That's one of the main reasons that GM is considering filing for bankruptcy; so that it can drop the millions of dollars in retirement pay it dishes out every year and return itself to profitability.

 

[RaiderMS3]

yeah, GM is doing really well. Merry Christmas 30,000 employees, we are pulling a "Flint, Michigan".

http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/21/news/fortune500/gm_cuts/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[Fede_italiano]

I should also say that you're speaking like this is in the past. GM is still many years away from any kind of major action. They have plenty of money to throw at whatever problems arrise, and even when they do have to take major actions to reorganize, they're not going to die, nor are any of their subsidieries.



I dont know if you realize this, but Saab and Volvo are some of GM and Ford's only profitable brands. If both companies (ford and GM) ditched their international holdings, they would go belly up very very fast.

What lots of people dont think about is that bad sales numbers are not the only reason the big car companies are hurting. The main thing that's killing their profit is overhead. These companies have been around for about 4 generations now, and four generations of employees means lots of retired workers who are still getting their pension and health benefits. That's one of the main reasons that GM is considering filing for bankruptcy; so that it can drop the millions of dollars in retirement pay it dishes out every year and return itself to profitability.

You are completely right.
Along with a 30 years old manufacturing infrastructure, sales not as good as hoped, great incentives that help cars moving from the lots but cut profitability quite a bit, GM and every other carmaker spend too much of its liquid cash in mantaining the executives, the retirees, health benefits, and dealing with unions.
Unfortunately in a system of this kind the private is left to pay for retirement as well as health costs because there is no a federal system in place.
That is the case because of the way that American society is shaped and it is not good or bad. It is just the way it became.
Having said that, that philosophy will never help big corporation like GM and they can either cut costs, go bankrupt, or drastically move along with the government towards something different.
For too long corporation have though in a short term way, but that cannot be the case anymore.
Everyone has to realize that you cannot just make a car that has no quality and pretend that it will sell, you cannot just not produce new technology because it will not sell right away or it is more convenient to just use what works and be blind about it.
America use to be always ahead and always though forward.
No it seems that most of the tech jobs are being outsorced for cost reasons, that for cutting edge technology they ask services from europe or asia, and I wonder what is left here to do?!?!

But it is not good that a national carmaker cannot sale cars in his own domain. That was the FIAT problem and that is way they are now working on it.
GM can make great products, but they have to focus on the future and make drastic changes to the way they think and operate.
Anyway, sorry for eing out of topic.

I live the current GTO beside no trunk, but the new not so nice.
Crysler product look muche better these days.

 

[Tito1]

The trunk is so small because of American crash test regulations compared to Aussie. To bring the car into the US they had to relocate the gas tank, and the only place to put it was behind the rear seats. Don't worry, the next generation will fix this. The current GTO was just something to fill the void until a new car could be engineered.

I've heard the gas tank reasoning a bunch of times. But there really can be no excuse for not meeting the expectations of the market. It's almost worse than not doing anything at all.

On the note of GM, they have even admitted that they can not design a rear wheel drive platform to compete against the germans with chysler. It sad that they have to publicly admit such complete defeat. So we are stuck with the current iteration of the Impala and monte carlo (jokes) GM is going down. I only hope the resale of the '05 goats dives like the '04's, than I maybe I'll even get myself one.

 

[misbehave]

I say if GM want their cars sold in good numbers, they should stop making their own design. Simply start making Saab and Subaru cars in their factory lines. And certainly don't put any of the GM brands badges on to them. This will cure part of their problems, atleast.

 

[Amemiya]

It seems that every current car it makes, it screws up on it in some way.

 

[misbehave]

 

[anarchistchiken]

Tim, why is Mitsubishi in that picture? They're doing much, much worse in the US market than any of the big 3 have ever done.

Tito, I can kinda see your point, but saying that releasing the GTO as it is now is almost as bad as doing nothing is pretty ridiculous. Those cars are one of the only profit making car that GM builds. I think the only cars they have profited on in the last few years are the GTO, Cobalt SS, and, in a year or so when it overcomes the development cost, the corvette. I could be wrong on that, so someone correct me if I am, but that's what my uncle told me, and he's a GM fanatic, so I believed him.

 

[Fede_italiano]

Tim, why is Mitsubishi in that picture? They're doing much, much worse in the US market than any of the big 3 have ever done.

Tito, I can kinda see your point, but saying that releasing the GTO as it is now is almost as bad as doing nothing is pretty ridiculous. Those cars are one of the only profit making car that GM builds. I think the only cars they have profited on in the last few years are the GTO, Cobalt SS, and, in a year or so when it overcomes the development cost, the corvette. I could be wrong on that, so someone correct me if I am, but that's what my uncle told me, and he's a GM fanatic, so I believed him.

I am not sure which are selling more but you cannot be profitable selling cobalts and for sure the GTO is not profitable since they are selling them with thousands of dollars in rebates. Along with that, it is not even produce here and it has low production.

They need to sell a variety of vehicle and by selling it means MSRP or so, not at invoice price because they have profitability.

Especially since people only lease them and God knows how the used market is going to be overflown in 2 3 years.

Also, why in the world all the concentrate in are SUV powered by huge gas engines?

GM, Ford, Crysler (less) all have abilities to produce great cars but they have to stop thinking short term and learn from European and Asian automakers.
Unfortunately they do not set the benchmark anymore.