1st's ecu questions/no bulls***

[TurboDog's Dad]

I'll stay out of the whole Nick/Nick battle. Advisory reading for you guys wanting to learn more about fuel/timing controls would be the Bosch automotive handbook and bosch electrical book.
As one Nick says, getting a replacement ecu through a full CARB test is damn near impossible. A friend of mine that does ecu calibration for the OEs, says it takes them five engineers for two years to come up with a calibration for one car. This might give you an idea of how difficult/time consuming/expensive it is and how unlikely it is that any of the vendors (including us, Flyin' Protege) are of making it happen.
We went with a rising rate regulator on our kit because it does still have the possibility of getting through a full CARB test and we will pursue that. Rising rate regs are not a perfect solution by a far shot, but in practice they work damn well, as long as our voltage clamp is installed. The kit is designed for 5-6 psi boost/ NO MORE! Without timing controls (even with them), I don't think the Protege engine will survive any substantial boost levels without new rods. The MSpeed Protege is not immune, I've heard of bone stock ones blowing up.
That said, everyone here needs bigger/better/more boost/more neon ;-) We are working with Link to bring out a plug-in ecu for the Protege with higher capabilities than anything currently out there. On-board wide band controller, full sequential, blah, blah. Plug-in, eliminate maf, install MAP, autotune off wideband. This unit will only benefit those of you that are willing to rebuild your engines to run higher boost. Just cranking up boost on stock engines, even with good fuel and timing controls will result in metallurgical litter, IMHO.
In a perfect world, we'd be able to get the development software for the stock ecu and reflash it. It's a very good ecu, just not designed with us in mind.
Our new ecu will be a Winter project. Once it's up and running and we've pulled our P5 apart to build a strong engine, it will be time to map it on our dyno.
Let the sniping begin.

 

[KYMP5]

ive got a motor i am building this winter and i want to get a turbo for it. if this is ready in the spring i may as well do it right the first time and get the computer

 

[70]

Sweet, Bill got in here!

Wana build two motors Bill?

I'm willing to help out, and learn! You aren't that far away and as long as it doesn't snow too bad I'll make it.

 

[TurboDog's Dad]

Chris, maybe we can. As has been posted in the NJ Mafia thread, we've been really busy with Miata stuff, so not enough attention has been paid to the Protege.
A couple technical notes on the giant ecu thread.
The stock fuel pressure regulator is 1-1 stock and does not need any hoses moved to work that way. The solenoid that is in between the fpr and the intake manifold is called the PRC solenoid. Its only job is to cut the pressure signal to the fpr on hot restarts to make the start a little richer.
Batch injectors, when done by the OEs, are wired in parallel. Common +12 volts to all four, then switched ground from ecu to paralleled pairs of injectors. I have to admit to only paying attention to Porsche and Mazda on this, but that is the way they do it.
Sequential injection isn't really fully sequential on most cars until very recently. Most OEs and many aftermarket ecus run sequential to a certain inj%, then switch to batchfiring all four. I suspect the Protege ecu is sophisticated enough to run sequential under all conditions but cold start prime.
FWIW, YLWMTO.

 

[1sty]

Thanks you very much for taking the time to help me out. I greatly appreciate it.

The information I had hoped to gather in that thread and still do is that which will decide if I also give up on the protege for the road more traveled.

Is the FAST system mentioned worth looking into further?

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Bill, very glad to see you are posting!! I was out at your place about two months ago and spent a little time talking with Ken about the future of the Protege turbo kit. He said that with proper fuel and timing control he felt the car would handle 12 psi on stock internals. Is this no longer a valid assumption?

 

[TurboDog's Dad]

Captain,
Ken has not really gotten too involved with the Proteges. I'm sure he was basing his comments on what we have seen with the Miatas. Since '99, though, even the Miatas don't like a lot of boost. I think they changed the rods. From the number of blow-ups seen on the forums, I suspect the engines are not good for that high a boost level long term. I'm running mine at 6psi and will remain there until we build the engine and do a full ecu.
1st. Nothing wrong with the FAST, it's a decent/not great wire-in. Unless you are willing to have somebody install and tune it for you or are prepared to climb a steep learning curve, I wouldn't recommend any wire-in for your particular needs. Tuning learning curves often get ugly.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

an FMU related question; I have tuned the knob to the point where I can hold the fuel pressure at 77 psi in third gear. yet in fourth and fifth gear it hits 79 to 82 psi of fuel pressure at full boost. what is the reason behind this?

I've talking back and forth with Corky and Ken about going to 8 psi. I remember in the kit's early stages at BEGI a few people were running 8 psi. Is this safe now with the addition of a fuel pump to the kit and 93 octane fuel? Or do you feel that this is an unwise endeavour based on your thoughts with the protege's internals? I've asked a bunch of people now and gotten more than a few answers, but I want to ask all the right people and hear all their takes on this before i fiddle with that wastegate.

Where do you feel the kit will be at with a completed Link style ECU? As in where do you feel the car will safely run - 10 psi perhaps? What kind of package would be considered an "upgrade" for the existing kit - Link ECU, new sensors, eliminate the AFPR, etc? Would it keep things like the stock alternator and tachometer that others do not?

thanks

 

[70]

Chris, maybe we can. As has been posted in the NJ Mafia thread, we've been really busy with Miata stuff, so not enough attention has been paid to the Protege.
(snip)....

I understand completely...I've been watching the stuff you guys are making for the Miata, and am excited for that stuff too. The super-charger looks intense. So does the extraction hood, and the new radiator, etc, etc, etc...Your are going to make buy a Miata.

I knew patience would pay of for the Protege side. And so, the Miata I will eventually buy will stay on the back burner until I am the Protege is finished.

 

[TurboDog's Dad]

Captain,
The rate of acceleration in the upper gears gives the fpr longer to react, which might cause what you're seeing. Of course there's also a heavier load at that point, so a little richer should be a good thing. I'm not comfortable recommending anything over 6 psi on a stock engine. With good rods, they should be strong enough for whatever boost you're willing to hang on to the torque steering monster with, given proper air fuel/timing controls. Obviously there will be a huge variety of opinions on this subject, depending on how long somebody has been lucky at high boost.
When we release the Link plug-in, it will directly replace the stock ecu. It will drive the stock tacho and will auto-tune. It will also drive the stock alternator, we ran into the ecu controlled alternator problem on the '99> Miatas. It will use all stock sensors with the exception of eliminating the stock MAF.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

When we release the Link plug-in, it will directly replace the stock ecu. It will drive the stock tacho and will auto-tune.

thats awesome. of course this is probably too early to ask, but whats a ballpark figure on what the Link will sell for?

 

[TurboDog's Dad]

No idea at this point. Link is just finishing up the subaru version, then '01 Miata, then we'll go after the Protege. The good news is that the new design allows rapid hardware changes for fitting in different cars.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Wow! This is great! Can't wait to see the link installed! I have a stand alone right in my possession, but not installed now. I've been running at 8 PSI since June, and know that the recommended fuel pressure is up around 98 PSI at full boost. Our poor injectors. I won't go any higher than this due to the fact that my J&S Ultrasafeguard occasionally kicks in when the accelleration and boost out accellerates the FMU in providing enough fuel quick enough. How long before you think it will be even close to ready?

 

[LinuxRacr]

BTW...My MP3 is ready for it! I have forged internals already.