02 modifier/ voltage clamp, need help!

[Keith@FP]

That's a good description of how the car will run without a voltage clamp. The boost you feel is not secondaries in the intake manifold, it's the car getting the fuel it needs. The VTCS butterflies switch over at 3000 rpm.

ECU side means the side closest to the ECU. Harness side means the side where the wires are.

Stop concentrating so much on the rpm. It's an approximate figure. What counts is the two modes of operation.

Keith

 

[perfworks]

That's a good description of how the car will run without a voltage clamp. The boost you feel is not secondaries in the intake manifold, it's the car getting the fuel it needs. The VTCS butterflies switch over at 3000 rpm.

ECU side means the side closest to the ECU. Harness side means the side where the wires are.

Stop concentrating so much on the rpm. It's an approximate figure. What counts is the two modes of operation.

Keith

kieth ,
im sorry but your wrong.
VTCS butterflies open at engine operating temp over 69 degrees.
they have nothing to do with performance at all.
dont confuse them with the VICS butterflies that open at 4550 rpm.
it is recieving the fuel it needs because the system switches to open loop when the secondaries open and compensating for the additional air flow to the intake port.

 

[perfworks]

That's a good description of how the car will run without a voltage clamp. The boost you feel is not secondaries in the intake manifold, it's the car getting the fuel it needs. The VTCS butterflies switch over at 3000 rpm.

ECU side means the side closest to the ECU. Harness side means the side where the wires are.

Stop concentrating so much on the rpm. It's an approximate figure. What counts is the two modes of operation.

Keith

also what i am describing is the EXACT operation that will take place with the kits these guys have on there cars. whether or not it is the way it was set up to run i dont know . i will know when my setup is up and running at the end of the month

 

[duMb KeoLa]

perfworks, you a turbo god?? just wondering cause you sound very knowledgeable. thanks for all the help guys!!!

 

[perfworks]

im just trying to clear a few things up

 

[Keith@FP]

Sorry, my mistake. Trying to do too much at once here. The VTCS operates at 3000 rpm only when the engine is below 65C.

WHere are you getting this information about the VICS operation? I haven't been able to confirm it with the manual.

It's not a carburetor with "secondaries" or a VTEC-like system. In fact, the dyno consistently shows a drop in power when they open up. They're in place to help the low-end torque. Interestingly, the drop is at 4700, not 4550.

Keith

 

[PRO 5]

I think it is because our intake manifold is very inefficient. And once the engine speed gets up to that speed (4700rpm) the air may become turbulant. If there were straight runners we would be all good! That is just my humble opinion.

Dave

 

[Keith@FP]

If it was simply turbulence, it would show as a gradual drop and not as a sharp dip. There's obviously something changing.

If you had straight runners, you'd have to drive from the back seat.

Keith

 

[PRO 5]

Hahaha true! How about a custom intake manifold with short runners..... I know short runners don't do much for bottom end power, but who needs it when you got TURBO! J/K. I was looking into custom fabing an intake manifold. Terry let's talk about this one!!!

Dave

 

[perfworks]

Sorry, my mistake. Trying to do too much at once here. The VTCS operates at 3000 rpm only when the engine is below 65C.

WHere are you getting this information about the VICS operation? I haven't been able to confirm it with the manual.

It's not a carburetor with "secondaries" or a VTEC-like system. In fact, the dyno consistently shows a drop in power when they open up. They're in place to help the low-end torque. Interestingly, the drop is at 4700, not 4550.

Keith

thru verious chilton and motor manuals that i picked up for the buisness last year for the 2.0l in the proteges. lots of interesting stuff on the operation of the system that maxda north america did not put into there manual for these cars.
the manual specificaly states the ecu will charge the soleniod at 4550. i am guessing that the delay would be due also to the fact that its when the ecu cycles to open loop and the fact that there is a slight drag and turbulence to the flow thru the manifold and down to the head port. sounds confusing now but we are dynoing at the end of the month with 3 manifolds and ill post all the results.
1 stock manifold , 1 without the vics and vtcs , and one without vtcs and module controlled vics to open when we are boosting over 2 psi.
i still have alot of research to do this weekend with the stock p5 and will post any info i can on monday.

 

[Little Beavis]

So, is there a way to trick the ECU into thinking the VICS or VTCS (whatever it is) is there. I want to do the ECU swap but I don't want to be stuck with an eternal CEL.

Otherwise, do you know what ECU wire to cut to make the CEL disappear? Tempted to do that if I have no other choice.

 

[perfworks]

beavis are you doing what kooldino did. go from the mp3 ecu to the p5.? let me know and i can tell you what do do to correct it.

 

[perfworks]

Sorry, my mistake. Trying to do too much at once here. The VTCS operates at 3000 rpm only when the engine is below 65C.

WHere are you getting this information about the VICS operation? I haven't been able to confirm it with the manual.

It's not a carburetor with "secondaries" or a VTEC-like system. In fact, the dyno consistently shows a drop in power when they open up. They're in place to help the low-end torque. Interestingly, the drop is at 4700, not 4550.

Keith

i got my new manual yesterday from mitchel and confirmed some operational details with mazda.
typo on the chiltons in 2001 for some of the first editions. 4750 was the rpm that the secondarie throttle plates open. that would explane the drop at that rpm for your dyno results. like i said we are dynoing at the end of the month so good thing we got that info from you and mitchel.
over 3000 rpm the VTCS will be inactive even at temps lower than 65.
now what i mean by secondaries is the throttle plates in the dual stage manifold for the pro5's & mp3
i still havent worked on a MSP yet so i dont know if this applies to them. i dont believe they would put a dual stage in that set up
by the way when we removed the VTCS we did not see an increase in the cold start emmisions that mazda and CARB were worried about.
but the fact that the car was relatively new and the fact that still had the primary cats active could be the difference

 

[Little Beavis]

Yes I'm looking to swap a P5 ECU for my MP3 ECU.

So you think you can put an end to the CEL with the ECU swap? (A fix that keeps the CEL functional, or just clipping the wire?)

You'd be my hero if you fixed that. . . (for at least a week)! Okay, maybe longer.

I still need to fix the CEL for my O2 sensor, but haven't yet as I was afraid I was going to be stuck with a CEL for life.

 

[igdrasil]

This thread brings me something into my mind.

Voltage calmp and the vortech is efectively handling the fuel problems. The problem with the spool kit on MP3s is mostly the advanced timing issue. And thats why he recommends the 6psi max. Right?

But, I have a P5, no advanced timing...right?

So...It may be safe enough to raise to boost to 8psi, intercooled, and monitor safe E.G. Temps and mixture?

Can someone give some ideas?

 

[perfworks]

Yes I'm looking to swap a P5 ECU for my MP3 ECU.

So you think you can put an end to the CEL with the ECU swap? (A fix that keeps the CEL functional, or just clipping the wire?)

You'd be my hero if you fixed that. . . (for at least a week)! Okay, maybe longer.

I still need to fix the CEL for my O2 sensor, but haven't yet as I was afraid I was going to be stuck with a CEL for life.

we can probably end both cel's give me some info on the o2 cel.
anyway you need to get a solenoid switch from another p5 or protege with the vtcs set up off the stock manifold. well you know what im going to help kooldino this monday on his set up and i will try it on his car. let me confirm the results first before i go to far and then i will or dana will post the how to.
best thing you could do is swap that ecu out.

 

[perfworks]

This thread brings me something into my mind.

Voltage calmp and the vortech is efectively handling the fuel problems. The problem with the spool kit on MP3s is mostly the advanced timing issue. And thats why he recommends the 6psi max. Right?

But, I have a P5, no advanced timing...right?

So...It may be safe enough to raise to boost to 8psi, intercooled, and monitor safe E.G. Temps and mixture?

Can someone give some ideas?

the spool kit and the fm kit dont recommend you go over 6psi BOOST because your stock fuel injectors cannot flow enough fuel to be safe with the stock ignition system. the p5's dont have the same ignition advance characteristics as the mp3 's so you have an advantage with the p5 ecu.
dont get me wrong there are plenty of people running 8-10 psi on there cars with these and many other kits and say they dont have any problems but IMHO i would not chance it without the proper management.
any way as it stands with stock internals and only an fmu from either vortech or BEGI and a voltage clamp i would say you are safe up to 6 psi.
with an inline pump up to 8psi
with larger injectors 8 -10 psi
and with the proper management BOTH IGNITION AND FUEL up to 12 psi max on stock internals.
now the trick is to get the head and intake to flow better and you could actually increase your hp at 10 psi and have more hp output than running 12 psi with no mods!!

 

[igdrasil]

Well...that all sounds perfect and I will be keeping the safe boost 90% of the time, but, I mean, I am curious and I will be testing stuff, if I can see a RICH condition all the way boosting 7psi, then 8psi, and safe temperatures with nothing more, just the spool kit intercooled and the FMU. what can go wrong???

Maybe here comes the detonations problem?

the spool kit and the fm kit dont recommend you go over 6psi BOOST because your stock fuel injectors cannot flow enough fuel to be safe with the stock ignition system. the p5's dont have the same ignition advance characteristics as the mp3 's so you have an advantage with the p5 ecu.

 

[perfworks]

as long as the ignition timing can keep PEAK CYLINDER PRESSURES after TDC, and you have enough fuel then there will be happy motoring. my comments were to keep you boostin' for a while.
like i always say (and got myself in trouble with) try untill you see otherwise.
always expirament and test the limits but understand that there will one day be a price to pay if you go too far.
anyway i think youll be fine if you have the right instruments to measure and see whats going on in the operation of the system.

 

[igdrasil]

Well...Ive already seen 9psi blown p5 engines, but I want to know whyyyyy....thats what will keep me from boosting more than 7psi. I would prefer to work the intake manifold and the exhaust.
And of course i will end up getting his stage4 and boost up to 10psi


Anyway I am going to follow spoolins recomendations, I dont trust Gas Stations here, and even more because of the war. You never know when they put 89octane fuel on the 93octane TANK.

as long as the ignition timing can keep PEAK CYLINDER PRESSURES after TDC, and you have enough fuel then there will be happy motoring. my comments were to keep you boostin' for a while.