0-60

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Tritonheat

Just want to get a clearer picture of this targeted group. so They won't sell the car to anyone who is above 24 or who is not sport oriented? WOW that's freaking smart, that's prejudice!!! That's a ******* violation of the law!!!! great!!! you are so smart tritonheat.
:eek:
 
Well, actually my info from the dealer was that they were aiming for 70% of the market of the MP3 to be male and 30% female. Demographics wise, it was more like the ages of 21-30, with an annual income of 35,000 + (I'm talking in Canadian dollars). Also, they were looking at people with an average education level of College/University, post-graduates, and also young professionals. Whether or not this has proven to be true I dunno, but that was their aim, so the dealership tells me. Just telling it straight from my sources. True or not? Up to you.

As for the whole Type R race thing...here's my results from personal experience:

I took on my buddy's Honda Civic Si-R (160 hp DOHC Vtec), and even he smoked me. I'm no race driver and I'm not bragging to be. I'm also not a bad driver: I used to hold my own in autocrosses in my Probe GT, so at minimum you can say my driving skills are at least average. My Si-R friend is even less of a racer than I am.

Details: I raced him up to fourth gear from a dead stop on the highway. First gear I kept up, but in second he had half a car length's edge on my till his Vtec kicked in, then it was almost 1.5 lengths. In third, at high rev nearing the shift to fourth (again that nutty Vtec) he pulled to about 3 lengths ahead. This was pretty much the case until we hit the end of fourth gear and slowed.

This was the result from discussing with him after the race, comparing the findings. I drive a stock MP3 (K&N replacement filter only, so far).

Now, how on earth you beat a Type-R I dunno. Yeah your LX is a couple hundred pounds lighter, and I think it does make a difference, but actually beating a 195hp VTEC? I lost to a Civic Si-R with comparable weights and only 20 horses more than me. Once the VTEC kicks in, it's bye bye! I think it's possible for us to keep up before VTEC, but once it kicks in each gear, it pulls a little further away each time.

As for the mods making up the difference: what is the stock power of the 94 LX? I won't even look...how 'bout 130hp max, just like the current ES? Add 30 hp or so for the mods maybe? That brings it up to 160. That's already being generous. Changing both cams, pistons, and headers will only take the MP3 up 30 horses, and you didn't note anything that drastic in your mod list. So, a 160 hp LX beating a 195 hp VTEC? Doubt it, unless the VTEC driver was pretty bad. You're lighter, but VTEC is something us lower revving cars cannot beat so easily. Even if both the LX and the Type R had the same power, you would most likely lose to the VTEC.

As for weight reduction, I have some findings too (they're definitely not conclusive, but this is a ballpark figure): based on some dynoing with and without weights added to my MP3, 50 lbs additional weight is like a 1.7 hp decrease in power at the wheels. 300 lbs works out to be somewhere in the range of 10.2 hp? Factor in driveline losses of 15% the lighter car 'behaves' like you have approx 12 hp more at the crank? So a 300 lb lighter car in a race has in effect 12 hp extra during acceleration. Remember, I'm not saying weight reduction INCREASES power, but its behaviour is LIKE an increase in power, calculated to the above amount in my experimenting.

You can all put it together yourself. Eliminating the weight difference by adding in the calculated weight vs. power difference: 130+30+12 = 172 and no VTEC. Versus 195 hp with VTEC? Hmmm

Of course the results aren't exact, there are tons of other conditions involved in a race, but you may start to get the picture now. ;)
 
ok see now this is a better flamewar. but I'm still going to ban his ass for using caps if he doesn't stop
 
MP3Ben: This is what I am trying to point up after so many posts. Thanks for the well input.

By the way, the stock 94 LX is 125hp.
 
There seems to be alot of confusion about the cars posted previously, like 0-60 times. As the first guy posted the times he listed are directly from Car & Drive Novemer 2001 issue.
Car 0-30 0-60 0-100 1/4 mile
Neon R/T 2.5 7.6 23.2 16.1 @ 87 MPH
MP3 2.6 8.3 25.3 16.5 @ 84 MPH
Sentra SE-R 2.8 7.4 20.1 15.7 @ 90 MPH
Ipmreza2.5RS 2.5 7.8 24.4 16.1 @ 85 MPH
JettaGLS1.8T 2.6 7.2 20.7 15.7 @ 89 MPH

Basicly what this means? We with the MP3's need to keep our A** racing around corners. None of these cars can touch our suspension. Atleast we should stay there until we mod out our stuff to beat the pathetic engine. I love my car don't get me wrong. I just remember if I wanna race some one I go get my Camaro to deal with the speed and keep my MP3 for the FUN and sound and FUN and looks and did I mention FUN.

Hope that clears up the confusion with the other cars 0-60 times.

Latrz
Nipples
 
Nipples, I couldn't agree with you more. It's all about power, speed, and sound, but most importantly it's about FUN! I believe that's a big reason we all drive what we do. Or else why not pick a different car, without the goodies, with a lower price, and is available on every street? :p

Hehe and FUN is also why I do all the experimenting I do, as per the above dynoing and racing stuff I mentioned! Numbers on paper are all well and good, but when we're booting around in our little MP3's, does it really make that big of a difference? It's certainly not going to ruin my day by losing to an Si-R, or even any of the other cars listed above. (Losing to a Tercel or Echo MIGHT, though!) :eek:

At least some people on this board have their heads on straight! :)
 
Thanks for the 0-60 times but i'm kindda confuse, cause other sites i go to it has different performance times. But u maybe right or the site i went to maybe wrong. who cares,i love my #1 girl/she loves to ride/ and never Complains (MP3). And actually a Echo is pretty peppy for a 105hp engine with vvt-i. Not all fast but Peppy.
 
0-60 times vary with the driver and conditions. You cannot expect to have the same exact times on every test. Some magazines will be more aggressive on the launch than others some test autos and some test standards. I think it is kinds futile when arguing between a 7.7 and a 7.9 0-60 time. They are both pretty dam slow. Go buy a real car if you are concerned with performance. How bout a Z28 that has a 0-60 of 5.2 and a mile time of 13.7.. Some slight mods and you are under 5 seconds and in the 12’s. It is funny to read about you guys and gals talk about a CAI for a 125hp car. It will do nothing and is not worth the money.
 
Actully some performance times 0-60 will be different. Then there for, ther's no need to say this is blah blah blah 0-60 cause it depends on the road condition/the weather/the driver/and if the car is broken in or not. And a v-8 z28 camaro 300hp engine will not be as fun as my mp3 it'll just be faster and the camaro will fall apart not known as to last reliable as japanese engine's. I would like to keep my money and just spend it to soup it up and have a smile on my face when a camaro or mustang rolls up and laughs but doesn't know that i swap my engine with a bpt enginge or a ecu upgraded chip with a vortec supercharger and beat him to the next stoplight and saved a few grand than rather spending 28+++ thousand or bmw with a v-8 or I-6 engine.
 
Originally posted by <Tritonheat1>:
<STRONG>have a smile on my face when a camaro or mustang rolls up and laughs but doesn't know that i swap my engine with a bpt enginge or a ecu upgraded chip with a vortec supercharger and beat him to the next stoplight </STRONG>


There is no freaking way you are going to ever do that. Keep on dreaming.
 
Supercars are in their own class...sure, some guy in a Camaro can smoke any of us in our MP3. Sure, he's probably laughing all the way home as we watch his taillights. And sure, he's having fun too.

That doesn't mean we don't have fun ripping corners in our little beasts (and probably as well or better than most stock 'supercars') , and that also doesn't mean our car is not a 'real' car. It's not a really fast car with some American monster engine, but you're comparing apples to oranges. here. :p

As for mods; some make a diff, others don't. What's worth it? That's up to the owner to decide dude. Why do zillions of people go and mod their Honda Civics or Acura Integras? Why do magazines like Sport Compact Car exist (yeah I know the argument about demand causing supply here)? Why do dynos and timeslips show gains? Your Camaro might get 20 hp from a filter while we might get only 3, but I wouldn't call it useless or a joke! You hang with your own class, and we'll hang with ours.

Jusr my $0.02. :D
 
Don't forget the hp/weight ratio. We might not make big gains with after-market toys, but we also don't need as big of a gain to get better results. A car that weighs 2725 lbs. shows better results from 10 hp than a 3306 lb Z28. The Camaro needs that motor just to get all that weight up to speed.

Physics, what a wonderful thing
 
Since you want to talk physics I will school ya. I will use your numbers of weight on a Camaro and an MP3 of 3306 and 2725 respectively. HP is about 300 on a Camaro and about 100 on an MP3.

The Pounds to HP ratio on a Camaro is 10.
The pounds to HP ratio on an MP3 are 27.25.
That is how many pounds there are to one HP


Do you have any idea what you would have to do to that MP3 to even get close? Doubling the HP would not even get you there.

The Camaro is not heavy the MP3 just does not have much.
 
Well, seeing as your under-rating the MP3 your numbers are off. But no biggy.

The MP3 has 140, and the Z28 is 305...That makes for 19.464 (MP3) and about 10.839. So let's say we put the FS-ZE motor in, easy swap. Makes about 180 stock. Then toss on the usual intake/exhaust stuff and we'll easily make about 200, almost 210.

That'll put us at about 13.625, using 200...Hmm, that's pretty damn close buddy. And no, you didn't school me, I knew the numbers before I posted..And, your missing my point again...

Oh, but wait, you said double...So if you add a decent turbo on that FS-ZE, 270 hp shouldn't be unatainable since people have done it to 3rd gen Protege's already. Hmm, 270 wheel hp and 2725 that makes for 10.09 or so, and that's right on par with the Camaro...And we still handle better than the Camaro...

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: ChrisS ]
 
LOL! this guy is still here???

come on, get a life! go ride yer chevy until it breaks down (around tomorrow probably )
 
Originally posted by ChrisS:
<STRONG>Well, seeing as your under-rating the MP3 your numbers are off. But no biggy.

The MP3 has 140, and the Z28 is 305...That makes for 19.464 (MP3) and about 10.839. So let's say we put the FS-ZE motor in, easy swap. Makes about 180 stock. Then toss on the usual intake/exhaust stuff and we'll easily make about 200, almost 210.

That'll put us at about 13.625, using 200...Hmm, that's pretty damn close buddy. And no, you didn't school me, I knew the numbers before I posted..And, your missing my point again...

Oh, but wait, you said double...So if you add a decent turbo on that FS-ZE, 270 hp shouldn't be unatainable since people have done it to 3rd gen Protege's already. Hmm, 270 wheel hp and 2725 that makes for 10.09 or so, and that's right on par with the Camaro...And we still handle better than the Camaro...

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: ChrisS ]</STRONG>


All of that work and you still aren’t there. You forgot to mention that new tranny that you will need to handle that power. Also the drive train will need to be fixed because it will not be able do launch like you will need to. All of that might get you there and your reliability and warranty went smooth out the window.

I am NOT making fun of your cars I am curious as to why people would buy a car that slow to make go fast? All of that work you just wrote about would put you well above the cost of a Camaro.

I do agree though that the Camaro is quite common but you get a lot for your money.
 
All that work and yes you are there, you were talking horsepower.

Yeah, you're going to need a clutch and some stronger bits in the tranny. But that goes with otu saying. You were talking about the weight/hp ratio.

As far as cost goes, the motor is less than $2,000 to get, intake and exhaust are less than $1,000. Custom tranny work and everything installed and you might bust $24000 including the cost of the car. Not to far off from the price of the Camaro.

I understand that you don't get why some one would buy a car and then do stuff to it to make it faster, but then I guess you need to ask yourself why you did it.

I feel (my opinion), you pay to much to buy a Camaro, considering everything you get. For almost $24,000 you get a bone stock car that goes quick in a straight line. I don't want that.
For $18,000 I got a car that has number of performance goodies on it already (Tokico shocks, Racing Beat Springs, RacingHart wheels, Dunlop SP 9000 tires, all things that aren't cheap), a car that handles like it's on rails, and nice sound system (Kenwood MP3 player, plus a sub). You would easily spend almost $3000 to make a Camaro handle anywhere close to the MP3. It costs some mony to make a heavy 3300 lb car handle well. Then add the cost of wheels and tires and a stereo. Your well into $30,000 (including cost of car) before you're done and you still have a stock motor.

It isn't worth it to me.
 
Holy s***, can't believe we have started another flame war here.

IMO, the reason why we get the MP3 instead of the Z28 is very simple. Because the MP3 look way better, which people would turn their head onto us, but not the Big America Z28.

Car aren't make for going straight only, when I choose a car, I consider power, handling, comfort, style and FUN? Tough the MP3 might not get into the power category, but definitely done well in the other 4.

:D :D :D
 
Originally posted by OceanPark:
<STRONG>Holy s***, can't believe we have started another flame war here.

IMO, the reason why we get the MP3 instead of the Z28 is very simple. Because the MP3 look way better, which people would turn their head onto us, but not the Big America Z28.

Car aren't make for going straight only, when I choose a car, I consider power, handling, comfort, style and FUN? Tough the MP3 might not get into the power category, but definitely done well in the other 4.

:D :D :D</STRONG>

You people are on crack if you think the Z28 is big. It is a freakin sports car in every way. Bottom line you want a performance car don't go out and buy a slow Japanese POS.
 
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