P5 Amp install for fronts - suggestions?

Mercure

Member
:
02 Mazda Protege5
I am slightly terrified by the apparent complexity of this procedure. I want to be sure that I have a pretty good plan of action before I start hacking away. Here's what I know.

1. Disconnect the negative terminal from the battery to avoid shorts.

2. The amp needs power. So a small length of wire needs to run from the battery to the fuse holder through a ring terminal and a short length of wire. The power wire needs to run from the other end of the fuseholder through a hole (e.g., space in a grommet) to the passenger compartment. Actually I'll run it from the passenger compartment to the engine compartment. Then the power wire needs to run down one side to where the amp is, under the seat. The preferred path seems to be under the floor carpeting, at the edge.

3. Ditto for the remote (= turn on?) lead, which runs from HU, on the same side as power, to the amp.

4. The amp needs to ground to the chassis. So I connect the ground wire to some unpainted metal surface of the chassis (like a nice bolt), so that it can reach the amp.

5. Signal needs to run from the HU to the LOC and out from the LOC through RCA to the amp, from the opposite side of the power wire. I am not sure how to do this in a way which will look clean. When do the wires cross the vehicle - right after coming into the passenger compartment? Obviously this also entails removing the HU and messing with the LOC, which I am content to leave figuring out to later.

6. In some way which I have not yet seen described, the signal HAS to get from the amp to the speakers. I don't really have a clue how this is supposed to be accomplished. Perhaps an audio cable runs up to where the HU used to output to the speakers. Perhaps audio cables run directly from amp to the doors somehow. This sounds complicated but I haven't seen it treated anywhere. So I assume it is actually something simple but I'm not sure what.

7. Run wires to amp location. Plug in ground, power, and turn on leads. Hook up RCA to amp. Turn on radio to start amp. Start the car, rev the engine and listen for whine through speakers.

8. If it works I'll disconnect stuff from the amp again, put the HU back, mount the amplifier under the seat in some way - its own topic. (At this point Crutchfield's instructions very confusingly say to connect speaker wire to speakers, suggesting that it wasn't connected when I was listening for whine through the speakers - ???) Anyway, at this point I might actually just stop and

9. Amp tuning etc.

10. Panel replacement etc.
 
I'm wicked tired and need to get some sleep. I'll get back to you first thing in the mid-late morning with a full response...I promise! :)
 
Mercure said:
I am slightly terrified by the apparent complexity of this procedure. I want to be sure that I have a pretty good plan of action before I start hacking away. Here's what I know.

1. Disconnect the negative terminal from the battery to avoid shorts.

2. The amp needs power. So a small length of wire needs to run from the battery to the fuse holder through a ring terminal and a short length of wire. The power wire needs to run from the other end of the fuseholder through a hole (e.g., space in a grommet) to the passenger compartment. Actually I'll run it from the passenger compartment to the engine compartment. Then the power wire needs to run down one side to where the amp is, under the seat. The preferred path seems to be under the floor carpeting, at the edge.

3. Ditto for the remote (= turn on?) lead, which runs from HU, on the same side as power, to the amp.

4. The amp needs to ground to the chassis. So I connect the ground wire to some unpainted metal surface of the chassis (like a nice bolt), so that it can reach the amp.

5. Signal needs to run from the HU to the LOC and out from the LOC through RCA to the amp, from the opposite side of the power wire. I am not sure how to do this in a way which will look clean. When do the wires cross the vehicle - right after coming into the passenger compartment? Obviously this also entails removing the HU and messing with the LOC, which I am content to leave figuring out to later.

6. In some way which I have not yet seen described, the signal HAS to get from the amp to the speakers. I don't really have a clue how this is supposed to be accomplished. Perhaps an audio cable runs up to where the HU used to output to the speakers. Perhaps audio cables run directly from amp to the doors somehow. This sounds complicated but I haven't seen it treated anywhere. So I assume it is actually something simple but I'm not sure what.

7. Run wires to amp location. Plug in ground, power, and turn on leads. Hook up RCA to amp. Turn on radio to start amp. Start the car, rev the engine and listen for whine through speakers.

8. If it works I'll disconnect stuff from the amp again, put the HU back, mount the amplifier under the seat in some way - its own topic. (At this point Crutchfield's instructions very confusingly say to connect speaker wire to speakers, suggesting that it wasn't connected when I was listening for whine through the speakers - ???) Anyway, at this point I might actually just stop and

9. Amp tuning etc.

10. Panel replacement etc.


1. I REALLY wouldn't worry about the whole disconnecting power inconvenience. Basically you'll have a fuseholder mounted within a foot of the battery, (most of us seem to have mounted the fuse ont he front side of the battery box then ran it under and back) Anyway, basically hook everything up, but leave the fuse out from here and you'll be fine.

2. THere is a VERY convenient grommet for this just above your clutch pedal it's kind of a Horizontal oval shaped rubber-plug. I'd first shove a screwdriver through it (carefully of course and check the other side once you've started) and then feed your wire from there. Routing the rest of the way depends on which seat you're putting it under and if you plan to put another amp under the other in the future or not. I'd personally pull up the trim on the driver-side door, and run it down the corner under the carpet.

3. Remote wire is a VERY low amount of power and is neglideable realyl so it's fine to run it with your signal wire (RCA jacks coming from your LOC)

4. Many ground from under a seat bolt, I personally found a better ground underneath the center console at the piece that holds it's mounting bracket on in the rear. It's 2 threaded posts that stick upward, and the mounting bracket sits on top of them, then bolts down. Make sure to scrape/sand away paint soasto get a very good contact.

5. I'm not sure how large LOC's generally are, but I'd imagine there's room to stuff them inside the dash, or atleast under the center console. I would get 2 6' or so lengths of speaker wire, and run it from the back of the H/U (you'll need to cut into the factory Front L&R speaker wires, 4 in all "Pin 5: White - Front Right (-) Pin 6: Red - Front Right (+) Pin 7: Black / White - Front left (-) Pin 8: Black / Brown - Front Left (+)") Run those wires then to the LOC and find a spot under the center console for it (there should be plenty of room) There's a pretty good HU removal note in the general info at thetop of the forum. You'll need the tool or a coathanger (I used a coathanger and had no problems) After your LOC's wired, then you simply need to get a 2ch RCA wire to run from it to your amp, depending on it's exact location it should be fairly short...

6. I actually wrote up a how-to for pulling speaker wire through your doors, it's stickied at the top of this section, you might want to do this if you're running upwards of 60W, but you could get away with the stock and avoid the hassle as long as you're not getting too crazy. THis you would hook up right on the remaining part of the wire where you cut the stock hu outputs.

7/8/10 I'll address this with a plan of attack in a moment, but I'd basically dedicate a good solid evening or part of a day to this, and just do it all at once, makes getting to things MUCH easier. SO basically get all of your wiring in place, and hookup your amp, fire it up, and hope it works. If it does, then start buttoning thigns down, and making it all look pretty again.

9. for tuning, that can hopefully be done when thigns are back in place, try to orient your amp controls (gain, crossover, etc) in a way that you can still get to them once your seat's back in place.

______________________________________________________

Nowthen, here's my plan of attack for you:

1. Pull out your center console, trim panels etc. Nice part about this is theese pieces aren't vital to operating your car. so while it may look ghetto, if you need to dive somewhere while they're out, it's nto a problem. This is easy enough, most everythign kind of snaps into place. You'll need to atleast pull your driver's side sill. (just tug on it hard, it'll pop up), then the "fuse" panel in front of it needs to come off, thee's a nifty connecter up near the firewall on it that you pull the center ring out from and it'll come out and the panel shoudl pull out after that. Then for your center console. First pull your cupholders sort of up and back to remove that part. then pull up the e-break surround. YOU'll see 2 screws behind the shifter securing the console, remove those, as with the pair that's under "buttons" on the front sides (sorta where your knee would rest) and then the pair that're on the back sides right where your seatbacks normally cover (fold your seats forward for this) Then you'll need to unscrew your shift know and pull the whole thing up and back. This will make your life MUCH easier. For convenience and keeping them form getting beat up, I reccomend you put the pieces of your car out of the way. inside your house or garage or whatnot.

2. After you've got those pieces out, if you wish to do this in steps, I'd first figure out getting your LOC wired in properly. Find a place to hide it, and get RCA jacks form there to somewhere close to where you want your amp to be. I would also hook into your speaker wires at this point, and run the speaker wire right to the amp (along with the RCA's shoul be alright) Don't forget to tap into your acc wire at this time. it should be connected to the pink/black switched power wire at the backof your deck (t'd into, not cut) You can also figure out a place to ground to. the palce I reccommend is right there exposed, holding down the "U" bracket that your center console mounted to at the back)

3. Start pulling your power wire. Make sure you can get it through that grommet (It's easy with these cars it's like it was meant to be) Id' run it under the carpet from up front, and sort of leave it hanging out by the seat if you must stop.

4. Here's the scary part. Pull your seat out. THere's a snap-over plastic cover on each of the 4 bolts at the 4 corners. It should be farly straightforward. and I believe it's a metric 13mm??? somewhere between 10 and 15... Pull these all out (It'll take sliding your seat back and fourth to gain access) Make sure to re-center your seat before pulling it out so you don't damage anything with the rails.

5. Now everything should be REALLY easy to get to. The RCA wires should tuck under the carpet from the center tunnel, and the power wire should be able to be ran under the carpet on the side. you might need to cut a hole where it will come through the carpet. As with the RCA's actually. If you do so make sure you know what you're cutting into (there's most noteably a big bunch of wires for your fuel pump and taillights that runs along the driver's side of the central tunnel I know because I hit this at one point)

6. Situate your amp in it's ideal resting place. I'd recommend with the gain and crossover controlsfacing either towards the back or the side of the car where they can be adjusted lateron) With your rear-floor ducts, I'd run them over the top of your amp. be careful not to bend them up, they'll crack. I secured my amps in place with the "hook" side of some velcro tape on the bottom side of them. From here, hook everythign up, nad if all's right, you should hear music. Refer to your amp's manual for setting, but start out with the gain set to the highest voltage, Turn you music up to the loudest you ever will, and dial the gain down until you hear distortion. This will likely be pretty loud, hence my reasoning for leaving them reachable once your seat's back in so you can drive to a big empty parkinglot or something.

7. IF you're happy with the sounds, etc. you get to button everything back up. This part's easy,but tedious 'cause all you'll want to do is drive and listen.

*whew* that was more than I thought,and I evne leftout the mandatory beer breaks... Honestly it's not all that hard to do, but it is a good idea to know what you're up against. Most importantly, I tried to break it down into steps and have your seat out for the least amount of time because some steps will inevitably take FOREVER, it's hard to predict why or how, but just know that it does happen. Do NOT half-ass thing for th intrest of saving time. Because hopefully if done right the first time you won't have to mess with it again. And, really what's an extra couple hours compare to the life of your car, and satisfaction of knowing that you did it yourself, and you did it right?

If I managed to leave something out, or something's kind of fuzzy, by all means, ask away.
 
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ok...soo...I was gonna give you something even less descriptive than above...but Pos is just the freakin' man. So....umm...yeah...just follow what he said to do. Because it's the exact same wa y I would have told you. :D
 
*L* sorry to steal your thunder, man, but y'see, thingis I was bored...
 
What do you mean when you say 'leave out the fuse from here and you'll be fine'?

If the speakers run at 4 ohms and the speaker wire should not run more than 60 watts, my guess is that this means it shouldn't run more than 15 volts. Correct? And how can I ensure that the power coming over the line does not exceed the limit since the amp claims to be able to run 80 watts. It sounds really nice to be able to just connect to existing speaker leads, if that's safe. I could do this with the amp's gain, right?

When you say cut into the audio outputs to speakers from the HU, I assume you mean cut clean through and strip the ends, right? I assume tapped into involves using a little widget (tap) instead. Is the acc wire the same as remote or turn on wire?

Thanks a lot. I owe you guys a drink, or a few ;)
 
Okay, basically when youpull your power wire, do it non-connected. YOu should have a fush holder within a foot fo the battery. Leave that fuse out until everyhting's hooked up to your amp.

and, what's the deal with 15volts? if you car runs more than 15v, you've got problems. You CAN run more than 60w through the stock wiring, and many have run more, but it's not really reccomended. What amp are you running? You might just want to go ahead and pull wire to your doors, really. Basically the stock wiring is like 22awg, and you'd be pulling 16g which will support more current (remember, the stock stuff's designed around 13w or so, and now you're pushing much much more.) Read that how-to and see what you think. but I'd HIGHLY recommend it. IT'll add some time to your process as well, but it's kind of a peace-of-mind kind of thing.

As for the wire cutting, yep you'd want to actually cut the front speaker wires. The alternative is to get a harness and a reverse harness which will basically add a length of wire beween your factory wiring and your deck that you can then freely tap into becauseall of he stock stuff will still be intact, but If you pull wire to the doors, and leave your factory speaker wire disconnected, you should be able to get away with just splicing into the wires as well.

And yes, the acc wire is the remote turn on in this case. With an aftermarket deck, it'll be a different wire, but since it'sa factory deck, there's no output for that, so it'll now simply use the same power signal that's used to switch the HU on.
 
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uhh no... UNHOOK the deck's speaker outputs and electrical tape them INDIVIDUALLY, then hook the other wires into the amp

here is an ULTRA ghetto isntall picture

tap is when you connect into a wire without cutting the wire
splice is when you connect 2 cut wires

when you splice its better to use butt connectors
 

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Good pic, note as well that the place where your deck wires are "X'ed" or cut you will now need to run to your LOC.
 
Here was the reasoning behind the 15 volts: Ohm's law gives power = voltage^2 / resistance, and if resistance is constant at 4 ohms, voltage must be at or under sqrt(240) ~=15.5, for power to be at or under 60 watts. Very plausibly wrong but I don't know why :)

I get that I'll be basically changing a direct HU to speaker connection (4 wires) into a HU, to LOC, to AMP, to speaker connection. Hence, no longer an HU to speakers connection. But I am puzzled because the picture only depicts signal running from amp to speakers. Is that just how things should be before the amp is connected to the output from the HU (or in this case, the LOC)?
 
I think the wrong assumption was that amperage was constant (like at 1 amp maybe). I am confused but I don't think it matters a lot.

I've got the kit and have started working on this, I'll probably have other stuff to ask.
 
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Basically I'm not exactly sure what youre' talking about with the voltage, possibly trying to make it too complex. Basically plain and simple, if your amp puts out much over 60w per channel, you might want to pull wire (say 16g) to your doors. It's not entirely necessary, but verymuch recommended because your factory wiring was never designed to handle that kind of juice. Good luck!
 
in audio ohms are never consistant.


1. always disconnect the power wire no matter what electrical work you do. it only takes a minute to do. ive seen way to many people destroy equipment or certain functions of their car by not undoing the power wire.
 
I took the liberty of modding the picture above to show you the complete change you are making. Essentially, you are cutting the direct connection from HU to speakers and instead going HU > LOC > Amp > Speakers

Hope this helps!
 

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1. I am having difficulty securely connecting the power cable to the fuse holder. I am using the knukonceptz 4ga. amp wiring kit. On either side of the fuse holder is a little hole where the cable or some part of it goes. A bolt then goes down (presumably into the cable). There used to be a little metal cylinder, with each end open, which fit just inside the end of the fuse holder and had a hole in the top for the bolt to go through, but it prevented me from getting the cable in at all, so I removed it and saved it.

fuse%20holder.jpg


However, even with this bit removed, the power cable does not really fit in the hole. Even when the insulation is stripped it does not really fit. I can thin out the end by cutting strands, and then force what is there into the hole and then screw the bolt down into it. Which almost solves the problem, except the power wire eventually just slips out the other end again. The bolt isn't holding it in. I can imagine that if the outer plastic insulation fit in, then the bolt going into the plastic would make it much more difficult to move, but it doesn't fit.

2. What is a clean way to mount the fuse holder? My thought was to use a screw to mount it to the plastic sleeve/enclosure holding the battery, on the opposite side where there's no danger of the screw hitting the battery. This would put holes in that sleeve - is this considered OK? I assume velcro etc. would not be able to stand up to the heat anyway. The other disadvantage I can see is that it makes the bit of wire connecting battery to fuse a foot long or a little longer, which I have read is not as safe as making it very short.

3. I also can't tell exactly what terminal to use on the 4ga. to connect it to the amp. At the amp it is just a little hole with a screw going down into it, but the hole is very very small compared to the 4ga. Whatever the terminal is, is it a big crimp onto the cable? Or is this a soldering operation, for example. Actually in general I am wondering what the best way to connect at the amp is, since nothing is pre-terminated except the RCA cable to run into the amp.
 
Are you sure it is a fuse holder for 4 guage wire? I am going to guess it is. The little cylinders your removed were probably to step it down to 8 guage, so its okay to take them out (in fact it's essential). You have to strip back the insulation or it definiteloy won't fit. Plus, once you do this, you should twist the wire with your fingers to make it as skinny as possible, then it should fit. Make sure you have the little screw backed out all the way (so its not sticking out inside the fuse holder, then push the wire all the way in and screw it down.

As for where to mount it, get some self-tapping metal screws and screw it into the firewall.

Here's a pic of where I put mine:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.smith1/CarSubwoofer/BatteryAndFuse1.jpg
Ignore the red wires coming from the negative temrinal, that's my ground wire kit, but the single red wire coming from the positive terminal, if you trace it up and to the left you'll see the fuse holder mounted.

There's other pics of my install here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.smith1/CarSubwoofer/

To connect into the amp you need an spade connector. You can get 4 guage spades with skinny ends to fit into the place on the amp. You can't see the connector, but here's a back of my amp shot, proving the 4 guage will connect to an amp with a single spade.
 
Nooo!!!

1Canuck2 said:
Are you sure it is a fuse holder for 4 guage wire? I am going to guess it is. The little cylinders your removed were probably to step it down to 8 guage, so its okay to take them out (in fact it's essential). You have to strip back the insulation or it definiteloy won't fit. Plus, once you do this, you should twist the wire with your fingers to make it as skinny as possible, then it should fit. Make sure you have the little screw backed out all the way (so its not sticking out inside the fuse holder, then push the wire all the way in and screw it down.

As for where to mount it, get some self-tapping metal screws and screw it into the firewall.

Here's a pic of where I put mine:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.smith1/CarSubwoofer/BatteryAndFuse1.jpg
Ignore the red wires coming from the negative temrinal, that's my ground wire kit, but the single red wire coming from the positive terminal, if you trace it up and to the left you'll see the fuse holder mounted.

There's other pics of my install here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.smith1/CarSubwoofer/

To connect into the amp you need an spade connector. You can get 4 guage spades with skinny ends to fit into the place on the amp. You can't see the connector, but here's a back of my amp shot, proving the 4 guage will connect to an amp with a single spade.
NOOOO!!! bad place for the fuse to be. the idea of that fuse up near the battery in the first place is to PREVENT SHORTING in the case of a collision. Hence the length of wire going into the fuse holder should be short enough that from it's position it is UNABLE to come into contact with any metal... I just 2-sided taped mine to the front of my battery box, then looped under it, my lead to the fuse is MAYBE 6" long, Just use 3m it's good stuff it won't un-stick. and even if it does, it really shouldn't matter much. IF you want to you could screw, or you could also drill 2 small holes, and run a zip-tie around it all. just make sure you don't poke into the side of your battery. The little sleeve is indeed either a spacer for smaller wire, or simply just a chunk they shoved in there so that the screw wouldn't fall out. strip and twist, it might be tricky, but you should be able to shove most of the wwir ein there. and then tighten the ecrew down, then re-tighten it, and then drive a bit and tighten it some more. Anything that mounts this way will "seat" abit inevitably, and should be checked periodically. As for your connection at your amp. yep your amp's likely setup for 8g, either get a connector, or make one by finding a large crimp connector and sticking a small piece of 8g on the end. YOu could also do this with solder and electrical tape, or to be simpler still, just cut off about half of the exposed wire (you don't want frayed stray ends of a power wire floating around,) and shove whatever you can into the amp connection.
 
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Since I have stuffed the stripped ends (not all goes in) and tightened the bolt down two or three times, only for it to slip out, I think I will just have to resort to taping the whole mess together really well with electrical tape. It seems like the mechanism is sort of poorly designed, or simply not made for 4g power wire. Anyway, I think it's useful to hear that I'm not missing some obvious convenient way of doing it :)
 
umm.. I'd cut it to get a clean end and try again. taping things to hold them together will eventually come loose. I've honestly never had that much of a problem. is it both sides or just one? perhaps you got a mis-molded piece?
 
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