What have you done to your P5 today?

[tj4fa2003P5]

I wonder if I should try replacing it <the Knock Sensor> then.

Unless its throwing the code, I'd hold of buying it and use your money elsewhere.

To me, pinging sounds more like a rattle than anything I'd call a "ping." You might be able to reproduce the sound on a normally-working engine by going up a hill and lugging the engine at the same time - or if that's not pinging, it sounds similar to me. Someone here may be able to describe it better.

To me it sounds more like a clatter or clattering on acceleration or putting a load like "going up a hill and lugging the engine" or accelerating while braking at the same time to load the engine down.

Here's an article linked below that might help (or not) when I searched for pre-ignition/detonation.

They also talk EGR and Knock Sensor stuff as well.
What Is Pinging, Detonation and Pre-ignition

My car makes all sorts of noises and vibrations that I don't understand, but I also tend to be a little too concerned and obsessive with small stuff that probably isn't important.

Me too and noises and vibrations seem to be hard to track down and make go away. You're like me and want a quiet(er) ride but yet want to hear anything unusual going on.
(My wife just turns up her radio louder in her Civic).

I had some front end (rattling) noises while driving that worried me after my clutch replacement that turned out to be coming from the front brake pads as the car didn't have any front brake anti-rattle spring clips and pad holders when I went to replace the brake pads.

I eventually realized the noise was when I was hitting bumps in the road (more pronounced at lower speeds) that I verified went away when I pressed and held the brake pedal slightly before running over them.

After installing the brake clip and retainer hardware, the rattling noises went away.

Some photos attached below:
Other front-end engine/drivetrain vibrations calmed down after I experimented and:
--Installed a hard vinyl shim (about 1/8-3/16" thick) under the front motor mount between the engine support bracket and the mount.
--Installed a (spongy about 3/8" thick) rubber body grommet between the body and rear engine support mount stud and bracket (also added a larger washer under the mounting nut -not shown).
--Installed a piece of rubberized mat about 1/2" thick (probably could used folded rubber hose pieces) between the engine support bracket under the engine/transmission.
--Replaced the Sway Bar Bushings with new Stock OEM rubber bushings and installed a DIY bushing retainer.

Rear end noises were primarily from 155K mile struts, old (and one damaged)s strut links, worn out sway bar bushings, and loose areas of the rear bumper where mount clips were broken (and drilling a few holes and using zip ties did wonders).

The Megan shifter - Well I pretty much RTV gasket sealed everywhere and anything where metal met metal under the shifter body plate, inside the aftermarket metal shift knob void and shifter threads.
--I also broke down and replaced the two bronze shift bushings at the base of the shifter with the OEM plastic ones and packed the inside of all the shift linkage tubes with CRC Silaramic high temp brake grease.
-Now I'm not noticing any vibration (that I can tell) apart from the ringing in my ears from working on F-4/F-15 Fighter aircraft.

Regardless, I'll still probably pull the noisy blower fan motor again to see if I can quiet it up with some lithium or brake grease and vacuum out any cowl debris (again).

 

[pcb]

My guess is that when the goo is dripping, the sensor may start to lose accuracy.

I wonder if I should try replacing it then.

That was complete speculation on my part.
Our gooey knock sensors may be working just fine, and there is no way of knowing if they are losing accuracy or telling if a new one fixes anything, unless your car is pinging and a new sensor fixes the problem.

You can test your knock sensor to see if it's in range.

I remember unplugging my knock sensor and plugging a 550 kilohm resistor into the connector to see what would happen, and I popped the knock sensor code, so the ECU doesn't just look for proper resistance across the sensor and is looking for some kind of signal.

There is still a pretty good chance that you will pop the code if the sensor does possibly start losing accuracy, even if we don't have a "performance code" for our car.


It will be interesting to see what happens with katapaltes's car with a new knock sensor.



I do remember one guy that was having pinging and I mentioned the knock sensor.

I don't think that he had a code but I think a new sensor stopped his pinging.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

That was complete speculation on my part.
Our gooey knock sensors may be working just fine, and there is no way of knowing if they are losing accuracy or telling if a new one fixes anything, unless your car is pinging and a new sensor fixes the problem.

You can test your knock sensor to see if it's in range.


View attachment 302248


I remember unplugging my knock sensor and plugging a 550 kilohm resistor into the connector to see what would happen, and I popped the knock sensor code, so the ECU doesn't just look for proper resistance across the sensor and is looking for some kind of signal.

There is still a pretty good chance that you will pop the code if the sensor does possibly start losing accuracy, even if we don't have a "performance code" for our car.


It will be interesting to see what happens with katapaltes's car with a new knock sensor.



I do remember one guy that was having pinging and I mentioned the knock sensor.

I don't think that he had a code but I think a new sensor stopped his pinging.

Cool, I'm definitely going to test that! I'll probably have to jack up the car to get to the plug though. It's a good chance to check my suspension for the lower pitched clinking/rattling I am starting to hear too...ahh the joys of an old car.

 

[pcb]

Cool, I'm definitely going to test that! I'll probably have to jack up the car to get to the plug though.

The connector (which is where you test) may not be under the car.
I kinda forget.
But you may have to get underneath to trace the wire up to the top.
And you want to get under your car anyway.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

Unless its throwing the code, I'd hold of buying it and use your money elsewhere.


To me it sounds more like a clatter or clattering on acceleration or putting a load like "going up a hill and lugging the engine" or accelerating while braking at the same time to load the engine down.

Here's an article linked below that might help (or not) when I searched for pre-ignition/detonation.

They also talk EGR and Knock Sensor stuff as well.
What Is Pinging, Detonation and Pre-ignition


Me too and noises and vibrations seem to be hard to track down and make go away. You're like me and want a quiet(er) ride but yet want to hear anything unusual going on.
(My wife just turns up her radio louder in her Civic).

I had some front end (rattling) noises while driving that worried me after my clutch replacement that turned out to be coming from the front brake pads as the car didn't have any front brake anti-rattle spring clips and pad holders when I went to replace the brake pads.

I eventually realized the noise was when I was hitting bumps in the road (more pronounced at lower speeds) that I verified went away when I pressed and held the brake pedal slightly before running over them.

After installing the brake clip and retainer hardware, the rattling noises went away.

Some photos attached below:
Other front-end engine/drivetrain vibrations calmed down after I experimented and:
--Installed a hard vinyl shim (about 1/8-3/16" thick) under the front motor mount between the engine support bracket and the mount.
--Installed a (spongy about 3/8" thick) rubber body grommet between the body and rear engine support mount stud and bracket (also added a larger washer under the mounting nut -not shown).
--Installed a piece of rubberized mat about 1/2" thick (probably could used folded rubber hose pieces) between the engine support bracket under the engine/transmission.
--Replaced the Sway Bar Bushings with new Stock OEM rubber bushings and installed a DIY bushing retainer.

Rear end noises were primarily from 155K mile struts, old (and one damaged)s strut links, worn out sway bar bushings, and loose areas of the rear bumper where mount clips were broken (and drilling a few holes and using zip ties did wonders).

The Megan shifter - Well I pretty much RTV gasket sealed everywhere and anything where metal met metal under the shifter body plate, inside the aftermarket metal shift knob void and shifter threads.
--I also broke down and replaced the two bronze shift bushings at the base of the shifter with the OEM plastic ones and packed the inside of all the shift linkage tubes with CRC Silaramic high temp brake grease.
-Now I'm not noticing any vibration (that I can tell) apart from the ringing in my ears from working on F-4/F-15 Fighter aircraft.

Regardless, I'll still probably pull the noisy blower fan motor again to see if I can quiet it up with some lithium or brake grease and vacuum out any cowl debris (again).

Ohhh! Didn't see this earlier. I'm definitely going to have to try some of your mods! Just need to figure out where I can find all of those different types of rubber. I'll update when I make some progress.

 

[31N007]

--Installed a hard vinyl shim (about 1/8-3/16" thick) under the front motor mount between the engine support bracket and the mount.

The photo you have shared for the front mount looks like there's a decent bit of strain on that mount, though I will admit I've not had a stock mount on my car for some time? I do very much like the lengths you've gone to to make the car "quieter" or more dampened as far as NVH is concerned. Since mine's a weekend toy, I went the other route.

The connector (which is where you test) may not be under the car.
I kinda forget.
But you may have to get underneath to trace the wire up to the top.
And you want to get under your car anyway.

I think the connector is accessible from the top of the car, looking at the shop manual. The sensor, however, is up above the oil filter, which is a pain in the booty. I recall actually driving around with the knock sensor unplugged one day and the car ran very sluggishly. I cannot, however, remember if there were more sensors unplugged that would have also added to the neutered performance or not.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

The photo you have shared for the front mount looks like there's a decent bit of strain on that mount, though I will admit I've not had a stock mount on my car for some time? I do very much like the lengths you've gone to to make the car "quieter" or more dampened as far as NVH is concerned. Since mine's a weekend toy, I went the other route.

I think the connector is accessible from the top of the car, looking at the shop manual. The sensor, however, is up above the oil filter, which is a pain in the booty. I recall actually driving around with the knock sensor unplugged one day and the car ran very sluggishly. I cannot, however, remember if there were more sensors unplugged that would have also added to the neutered performance or not.
View attachment 302252

Seems like that's correct. I found it quickly. Best way to find it is to look for the dipstick, and it's the plug next to it and downward a bit. Multimeter reads 548 kilohms which is in spec.

Both mechanics I've had check the car out mentioned that it needed replacing, but they called it the oil pressure sensor. I learned this when I bought a new oil pressure sensor and realized it was wrong (and that the oil pressure sensor is just below the knock sensor on the back of the block).

Looks like I'm good though.

 

[pcb]

... I learned this when I bought a new oil pressure sensor and realized it was wrong (and that the oil pressure sensor is just below the knock sensor on the back of the block).

I remember looking into replacing my oil pressure sensor because I didn't like how the oil pressure goes as low as 2 PSI before the idiot light would come on.

I figured it would be better to come on at 5 or 10 PSI.

I found out that it is not metric thread and that the same sensor is used for hundreds of different cars and there wasn't really any option for me with a 5-10 PSI rating.

I ended up buying one with a 3-9 PSI rating but never did install it because it was basically the same as what is on the car.

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

Seems like that's correct. I found it quickly. Best way to find it is to look for the dipstick, and it's the plug next to it and downward a bit. Multimeter reads 548 kilohms which is in spec.

View attachment 302254

Both mechanics I've had check the car out mentioned that it needed replacing, but they called it the oil pressure sensor. I learned this when I bought a new oil pressure sensor and realized it was wrong (and that the oil pressure sensor is just below the knock sensor on the back of the block).

Looks like I'm good though.

I have a "low profile" dipstick just like yours (and kinda like it that way).

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

The photo you have shared for the front mount looks like there's a decent bit of strain on that mount, though I will admit I've not had a stock mount on my car for some time?

Is it you that has that silver looking performance modified front motor mount?

I've seen someone here recently with one that looks about 1/2" shorter in height compared to OEM that might set the engine/transmission directly on the metal bracket in the center.

The Front Mount shim photo looks a little deceiving from the side but I did crank the motor mount nuts down on the Engine Support Bracket good an tight.

The Engine Support Bracket didn't make much sense to me having the front two body mount bolts rubberized between the bracket and body, the center of the support bracket either barely touching or a very small space at the center point below the engine-transmission, and the rear of the bracket having metal to metal contact with the body.

Also weird is underneath the bracket at the center there is some kind of metal dampening device (not shown on FSM illustration) that doesn't appear to do anything (photo attached).

By raising the front of the engine up about 1/8"-3/16" (shim under the motor mount) and lowering the rear of the bracket own about 1/4"-3/8" (rubber body grommet shim) allowed me to install the 1/2" rubberized (Mat) dampener between the engine and transmission's low point to absorb any internal engine/transmission vibrations going through the metal bracket to the car's body.

Hardened Washer installed Under Rear Engine Support Bracket Nut

I do very much like the lengths you've gone to to make the car "quieter" or more dampened as far as NVH is concerned. Since mine's a weekend toy, I went the other route.

Thanks-Some toys are meant to be fast, noisy, and sometimes even scrape the ground!!

 

[pcb]

I decided to inspect my knock sensor ...

I checked the resistance and got 570 kilohm.

Then I turned my meter to AC volts and it read 0 VAC.
I started smacking the sensor with a hammer and it started to generate voltage .
I managed to generate as much as 30 millivolts with a solid hit.

I still wonder if it was generating the proper voltage for the amount of shock that I was giving it ??

I was debating on whether or not to dig into the goo and see what's inside, but I didn't want to wreck it.
It's the sensor from my parts car, so I'll just keep it as a spare.

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

I decided to inspect my knock sensor ...

View attachment 302274

View attachment 302275

View attachment 302276

View attachment 302277


I checked the resistance and got 570 kilohm.


View attachment 302294


Then I turned my meter to AC volts and it read 0 VAC.
I started smacking the sensor with a hammer and it started to generate voltage .
I managed to generate as much as 30 millivolts with a solid hit.

I still wonder if it was generating the proper voltage for the amount of shock that I was giving it ??

At least it's detecting a knock. So It sounds like its working and looks like its in good shape.
I've got to jack up my son's P5 this weekend to see what condition his is in.

 

[pcb]

At least it's detecting a knock. So It sounds like its working and looks like its in good shape.
I've got to jack up my son's P5 this weekend to see what condition his is in.

I noticed that the ZM engine doesn't have a knock sensor or code for it.

The way I understand it is that our FS engine continually monitors the knock sensor output and advances the timing as much as possible until pinging starts.

The goo on the sensor is kind of sticky and runny and I wonder if perhaps the sensor could be generating more voltage than it is supposed to be because the goo is deteriorating?

Then the ECU would reduce the timing advance and reduce performance.

It's not really possible to test the sensor because you need to apply an exact amount of shock and check for the appropriate voltage.

The sensor is continuously generating an output that is monitored by the ECU.

If the ECU doesn't receive a signal for 5 seconds, it will throw a code, so the sensor is always generating voltage, not just when the engine pings.

I suppose the voltage would spike with a ping, but I figure it's possible for the sensor to send out a false spike ?



And, of course I'm overthinking it again.
The ZM doesn't even have a knock sensor, so it's probably not a critical component.

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

Actually went and got quote for bumper and lip to turn 22v.............when I get around to removing the bumper and lip from car and dropping them off.

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

I'm definitely going to have to try some of your mods! Just need to figure out where I can find all of those different types of rubber. I'll update when I make some progress.

Benji PM me

 

[pcb]

Ohhh! Didn't see this earlier. I'm definitely going to have to try some of your mods! Just need to figure out where I can find all of those different types of rubber. I'll update when I make some progress.

Keep in mind that different types of rubber have different lifespans.

Urethane rubber of any sort will last longer.

Other types of rubber will crumble much sooner.

You can just plan on replacing things sooner with crappy rubber.
That can be OK and cheaper.


These chunks of rubber have been in my engine mount for about ten years.

The chunk of rubber washed up on the beach about 10 years ago, with no signs of rot or decay.
I'm sure that it's quality urethane rubber...

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

Keep in mind that different types of rubber have different lifespans.

Urethane rubber of any sort will last longer.

Other types of rubber will crumble much sooner.

You can just plan on replacing things sooner with crappy rubber.
That can be OK and cheaper.


These chunks of rubber have been in my engine mount for about ten years.


View attachment 302353



The chunk of rubber washed up on the beach about 10 years ago, with no signs of rot or decay.
I'm sure that it's quality urethane rubber...

Looks Good to Me.

 

[pcb]

This is the original piece of rubber that I found.

It is almost 20 years old.
It's still good.
The surface turned dark, but it is still rubbery, and it's not rotting.

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

Good Stuff...Better than that OEM motor mount rubber.

 

[tj4fa2003P5]

I decided to inspect my knock sensor ...

View attachment 302274

View attachment 302275

View attachment 302276

View attachment 302277


I checked the resistance and got 570 kilohm.


View attachment 302294


Then I turned my meter to AC volts and it read 0 VAC.
I started smacking the sensor with a hammer and it started to generate voltage .
I managed to generate as much as 30 millivolts with a solid hit.

I still wonder if it was generating the proper voltage for the amount of shock that I was giving it ??

I was debating on whether or not to dig into the goo and see what's inside, but I didn't want to wreck it.
It's the sensor from my parts car, so I'll just keep it as a spare.

Well, I checked my knock sensor and it's pretty much goo-less.

I think there was goo in there at one time because I can feel a little "stickiness" at the lower edge of the sensor.

FYI - Throwing no codes and no pinging as far as I can tell.

I'm wondering if I should attempt to replace it of fill it up with something like RTV gasket sealant?

I'm pretty sure I can put some RTV on my finger and reach up between stuff and wipe it into the back of the sensor.

---Or---

I could wait until my son comes back home at the end of the month so he can "assist" me so then he will see how he can get at things on the back of the engine once the side-to-side 4-bolt crossmember is removed.

What'cha think?